Interview With Martin Sheen and Rob Reiner; Army War College Professor Criticizes Bush; Paul O'Neill Backs Off
Aired January 13, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone. What a difference a day can make. Former White House insider Paul O'Neill came out swinging at his former boss, President Bush, Sunday night on "60 Minutes." At least that's how it sounded. The interview and the new book that led to it set off a political firestorm, it's fair to say,.Well, now, Mr. O'Neill says his blunt criticisms of the president are being distorted. And that's where "The Whip" begins tonight, with today's softer, kinder message from Mr. O'Neill. So first stop, the White House and CNN's John King.John, a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Mr. O'Neill today saying that he, by no means, meant to suggest that George W. Bush went out of on some reckless pursuit from day one of war in Iraq. O'Neill also says he is confident he'll be found of no wrongdoing when it comes to the question of whether he improperly took classified materials with him when he was fired -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right.On to ammunition for those who oppose the war in Iraq. It comes from an unexpected corner.CNN's Jamie McIntyre with that today and the headline -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a visiting professor at the Army's War College sharply criticized the Bush administration for linking the war against Iraq with the war on terror. He called the war against Iraq unnecessary and also called for serious consideration of increasing the size of the U.S. military. The Pentagon dismissed it all today as one man's opinion.
COOPER: All right, we'll talk more about that in a moment.Next, are the people in charge of guarding against terrorism in much of Washington up to the job? CNN's Kathleen Koch is on that tonight. Kathleen, a headline from you.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, they protect the Lincoln, the Jefferson, the Washington, monuments, that is, but inspectors in September found some U.S. Park Police literally asleep at the wheel.
COOPER: All right, back to you in a moment. Finally to Iowa. Six days to go. Cold, contentious, and Candy Crowley's territory tonight, as always.Candy, the headline.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the headline is a question. When is a third really a win? And the answer is in Iowa caucuses. And there is a huge race on now for third.
COOPER: All right, no place like Iowa. Candy, thanks. Back to all of you in a moment. Also ahead tonight on the program, we're going to talk with two Hollywood stars, Rob Reiner and Martin Sheen, in Iowa to campaign for their favorite candidate. Later, we'll visit a prison where religion plays a central role in trying to rehabilitate inmates. And another black eye for a newspaper, as a top "USA Today" correspondent resigns for deceiving the paper. All that to come in the hour ahead. We begin with former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill. The new book in which he sharply criticizes President Bush is in stores today, but the controversy surrounding it has been brewing for days now. It wasn't just what he said on "60 Minutes," that the president was bent on targeting Iraq long before 9/11. It was also the document marked secret shown in the interview. The White House took issue with both. And today, Mr. O'Neill was busy clarifying. Here's CNN's John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill says he never meant to suggest President Bush was in a rush to war from day one.
PAUL O'NEILL, FMR. TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, actually, there was a continuation of work that had been going on in the Clinton administration, with the notion that there needed to be regime change in Iraq.
KING: On NBC's "Today," O'Neill again insisted he never saw firm evidence that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. But he said there was intelligence suggesting such weapons.
O'NEILL: And it's why we have a president. We elected George Bush and he decided it was good enough.
KING: And on perhaps the most quoted line in the price of loyalty, calling the president leading a cabinet meeting like a blind man in a room full of death people.
O'NEILL: But if I could take it back, I'd take that back. KING: O'Neill's softer tone came as others in those early national security meetings took issue with suggestions Mr. Bush was predisposed to war. Retired Army General Hugh Shelton, the military's top officer at the time, tells CNN he "saw nothing in the first six months of the Bush administration that would lead me to believe we were any closer to attacking Iraq than we had been in the previous administration." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld echoed Shelton's view about Iraq and disputed O'Neill's characterization of a detached president.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What I've been reading about the book is so different from my experience in this administration, it is just dramatic. It is night and day.
KING: Secretary Rumsfeld said he twice called his old friend about the book project, the second time after being told O'Neill was highly critical of the president.
RUMSFELD: I said, you didn't go and do that, did you, Paul? I can't believe that. And he said, well, there's -- there will be people who feel that way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now, O'Neill also said today that he's absolutely certain he did not take any classified materials with him when he was fired from the government. But he says he's not surprised at all that the Treasury Department now is looking into that question. And, Anderson, many Democrats say that investigation to them is proof of political retaliation by the Bush White House. Secretary O'Neill says he doesn't think so and that, if he was still in office, he would order exactly the same review himself.
COOPER: And, at this point, it is just a review?
KING: It is a review. The Office of Inspector General will now essentially look at the inventory of what Secretary O'Neill was authorized to take with him, look at the "60 Minutes" report from Sunday night, look at the book and see if perhaps any classified documents were cited in those reports and then determine where it came from. They say they had to do this. They're insisting the White House had nothing to do it. And the question is, when will it end? And officials at the Treasury Department say, it could take a few days, it could take a few weeks, maybe a few months.
COOPER: All right, John King at the White House -- thanks very much, John. All this as a new report takes aim at the U.S. invasion of Iraq. It was written by a visiting professor at the U.S. Army War College who is sharply critical of the Bush administration for linking the war in Iraq with the global war on terror. The Pentagon today dismissed it as one person's opinion. Reporting the story for us, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The U.S. invasion of Iraq was an unnecessary preventive war of choice that was not integral to the war on terrorism, but rather a detour from it. That's the conclusion of Jeffrey Record, a visiting professor at the Army War College, and a former aide to Democratic senators Sam Nunn and Lloyd Bentsen.
JEFFREY RECORD, PROFESSOR, ARMY WAR COLLEGE: I think the invasion of Iraq was a diversion from the more narrower focus on defeating al Qaeda.
MCINTYRE: Record argues in a paper published last month, "The global war on terrorism is strategically unfocused, promises more than it can deliver, and threatens to dissipate scarce U.S. military means over too many ends." A disclaimer makes clear that's not the official position of the Army, something Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld underscored as he dismissed the criticism.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The person wrote an article, like an op-ed piece. And it's out there. And everyone is free to say whatever they think. That is the position of some people in the United States and in the world, what he repeated. And that's fine. It obviously is inaccurate.
MCINTYRE: The professor also echoed the sentiments of many congressional critics, who argue the U.S. military is too small, something Rumsfeld also rejects.
RUMSFELD: We hope and believe that the current stress that is put on the force is a spike, if you will, a temporary increase, rather than a -- what would prove to be a plateau.
MCINTYRE: To critics who argue the U.S. military needs two more divisions, Rumsfeld has a ready answer. It already has them. By keeping more troops in uniform longer, either by delaying their departure or allowing them to reenlist, there are some 36,000 more troops than usual in the U.S. military.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld insists, making that temporary increase in troop strength permanent would be the slowest and most expensive solution. Nevertheless, he says, he's prepared to propose it if his short-term fixes don't get the job done -- Anderson. COOPER: Jamie, I've to tell you, I'm a little confused by the story. Help me out here. The Army War College, this guy is just a visiting professor for the Army War College and he basically just wrote sort of an academic paper. Why is it being made such a big deal out of?
MCINTYRE: Well, I think for a couple reasons. One is, he's a visiting professor, but he's normally a professor at the Air War College in Maxwell Air Force Base. And he has a pretty good reputation. He's written a number of books as a military thinker. But keep in mind also that his job as a professor is to challenge his students, who are majors and sometimes lieutenant colonels in the military, who could be future military leaders. And the whole idea is to get them thinking about the conventional wisdom and questioning it and thinking for themselves, so that the next generation of military leaders will have some original thoughts. So he's writing this provocative piece, really just doing his job.
COOPER: And it is a college, after all. And we should point out also, he was an aide to Democratic senators in his past life, I guess, before professor.
MCINTYRE: Well, we should also point out also that he's written papers critical of military strategy under the Clinton administration as well.
COOPER: All right, good to point out. Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much, at the Pentagon tonight.On to Iraq itself. It's been a month since Saddam Hussein was captured, but north and west of Baghdad in the so-called Sunni Triangle, where cad support for the former Iraqi leader is strongest, today, it looked like it has for some time, the picture not pretty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another American helicopter down. The third wreck in two weeks in Iraq's Sunni Triangle, heartland of the guerrilla war against the occupying coalition. This time it's an Apache Attack helicopter. A U.S. military spokesman says it was probably shot down by insurgents. The two-man crew survive. Witnesses near the town of Habbaniyah, west of Baghdad, say they saw a flash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The rocket hit the helicopter on the tail and fire erupted. The pilot discharge his weapons. Then the helicopter lost control and crash landed. The crew of the helicopter fled and the rescue services arrived. PENHAUL: Trouble too in a neighboring triangle town, Fallujah. Town officials say unidentified attackers fired a rocket at U.S. paratroopers guarding the mayor's office. Officials say soldiers returned fire, and three people, including a woman were killed. Seven others were injured in the gunfight. Earlier in the day, several hundred protesters demonstrated against U.S. forces who had detained an Iraqi bride as they searched for her husband. She was released. Unrest too in the Shia Muslim dominated south. A second day of demonstrations against chronic unemployment in the city of al Kut. Coalition commanders say there was no violence but wire services report seven injured in clashes between jobless protesters and Ukrainian coalition troops. The protests, like other seen at the weekend further south in Amara, coincide with a political controversy sparked by Shia spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. The media-shy ayatollah rarely pictured on camera is calling for general elections to choose a new Iraqi government. But coalition administrators say the leadership will be selected by a series of regional committees or caucuses.
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR: The problem we have is time. It will take time to produce an electoral law to get a political parties law to draw constituent boundaries so we have a voter's list. PENHAUL (on camera): The dispute between the coalition and the cleric may be gaining pace, but there's no sign the Shia majority will mount the kind of armed resistance that's taken root in the Sunni Triangle. Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Now to Israel and the wall going up between Israelis and Palestinians. There's tremendous debate within Israel about the wisdom of it, as well as outcry from the Palestinians over how it redraws the border between the two. But leaving that aside, there's also a terrible irony. The Israelis may be building it, but, in one place at least, it's Palestinians doing the work. Here's CNN's Matthew Chance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The reinforced concrete slabs that Israel says will make its people safer. With the prime minister still threatening to separate from the Palestinians if there's no peace, what Israel calls its security barrier is taking shape. At $7, there's no shortage of Palestinian labor by the hour, the poor willing to work, but too ashamed, they told us, to speak. There must be fear of reprisals too. People have been murdered, they told us, for doing this work. In the concrete's shadow, residents like Omar Saleh talk of land confiscated and families cut off from jobs and schools. But no one is listening to them, he says.
OMAR SALEH, RESIDENT: We are now praying to God, nobody else. You know, he's strong. He can do what he want. Nobody catch him. Nobody give him the way to stop.
CHANCE: Despite opposition home and abroad, Israel seems determined to press on. (on camera): For the moment, this is a steel and concrete structure still very much under construction. But it's also what Ariel Sharon's plan for disengagement could actually look like. Many Palestinians and Israelis alike believe this vast structure could soon become an imposed and un-negotiated border. (voice-over): The Israeli prime minister has again been speaking about disengagement. In a few months, he told Israeli lawmakers, it could be time. Jewish settlers and their supporters, who don't want to give up any land, sense betrayal. But as the rights and wrongs of the plan are debated, ground work is moving apace. Matthew Chance, CNN, Abu Dis, in the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, still ahead tonight on the program, a dramatic security failure, as U.S. Park Police basically sleep through a test of how alert they are to terrorism. And later, we'll head to Florida, where a faith-based prison program has both critics and converts. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there has been a battle brewing in Washington over the firing of the chief of the U.S. Park Police. It's become a medium-sized scandal, more so inside the Beltway. But it's being overshadowed tonight by another potential scandal involving the Park Police and some places in Washington visited by millions of people every year. Here's CNN's Kathleen Koch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH (voice-over): Interior Department investigators expected tight security at the Washington Monument around the second anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. But, instead, according to a department report, they found security dangerously lax.
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), WASHINGTON, D.C. DELEGATE: It looks like these people have been trained to do diddly-squat.
KOCH: On the anniversary, investigators took a black plastic bag to the rear of the monument and set it at the base. According to their report, the bag full of trash that just as easily could have been explosives sat there for 20 minutes. Investigators then carried it to the front and put it next to the security kiosk, where visitors enter. Again, it sat unnoticed for about 15 minutes. Where were U.S. Park Police, charged with guarding the monument? The day before, investigators found some sitting inside, but never leaving the monument. On September 11, while Park Rangers were present, the only officer was asleep in an unmarked patrol car.
NORTON: Don't make this a cop problem. This is a failure of the National Park Service, top to bottom, to train all of its personnel for the new 9/11 era in which we live.
KOCH: The inspection came on the heels of a scathing August report critical of park security nationwide. The September report concluded, the National Park Service and U.S. Park Police -- quote -- "have such complacency that it causes us to question their value and purpose."But Park Police insist, security has been improved.
SGT. SCOTT FEAR, U.S. PARK POLICE: We devised a new plan and we implemented it as soon as we could. So changes were made.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: So this does come as U.S. Park Police are about to lose their police chief, Teresa Chambers. She was charged in November with insubordination for talking with the media about security and budget challenges. Ironically, she is the one who is credited with, in October, making some of the security improvements that inspectors asked for. And she could lose her job as soon as this week -- Anderson.
COOPER: Interesting.Kathleen Koch in Washington -- thanks, Kathleen.A few other stories making news around the country right now, starting in Florida, with radio host's Rush Limbaugh's medical records. Prosecutors were allowed to see them last month and they were sealed, but not moved. Today, a state appeals court ordered prosecutors to turn them over, pending an appeal in the case. Prosecutors are investigating whether Mr. Limbaugh went doctor shopping to obtain painkillers. A victory for law enforcement agencies today. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that police may set up roadblocks to seek help from motorists in solving recent crimes. The legality of these so-called informational checkpoints had been in doubt. At least four people were killed today when a tanker truck carrying flammable liquid plunged off an overpass, landed on I-95 south of Baltimore. The tanker hit a tractor trailer, at least two cars, setting off a huge fire, as you can see.And in Connecticut, Governor John Rowland is under federal investigation and intense pressure to resign. Today, he warned state legislators that their own ethical shortcomings could come to light if they press for his impeachment. Interesting.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, just what can you say once you left the government? What can you and what can't you say? We'll talk about the case of former Treasury Secretary O'Neill with Robert Reich, who left his job as labor secretary during the Clinton administration. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, more now on Paul O'Neill's literary adventure and the perils of speaking your mind so soon after being shown the Cabinet door. Robert Reich served as secretary of labor in the first Clinton administration. He wrote a book about his experiences, though, to the best of our recollection, nobody made a federal case out of it. He joins us tonight from Berkeley, California. Secretary Reich, thanks for being with us. Your book was really a very different sort of tone. It really was not a kiss-and-tell book, in that regard. When you heard about what Secretary O'Neill had done, do you think he did the right thing? Clearly, we're having an audio problem. We will try to get back to Secretary Reich in a moment. We apologize for that.Before we take a break, let's take our "MONEYLINE Roundup," starting with Enron. Former CFO Andrew Fastow and his wife have agreed to plead guilty for their roles in the accounting scandal that brought Enron down. Lea Fastow is expected to plead to a tax charge. No details yet about her husband's deal, except that it involves a 10- year sentence and presumably his testimony against other Enron executives. Chrysler is recalling 2.7 million cars to fix a potential problem with a gear shift Models to look out for include the Chrysler Cirrus, Dodge Stratus and Plymouth Breeze. Also on the list, the Sebring convertible, 300M, Concorde, LHS, the Dodge Intrepid, and Eagle Vision. The price of oil is at a postwar high, topping $35 a barrel for light sweet crude. Mmm, light sweet crude. Cold weather takes part of the blame for that and my mispronunciation.And markets today were down. A tech sell-off started the slide. Remarks from Fed Chairman Greenspan, they didn't help much either. We're going to go to a short break. We're going to try to get Secretary Reich back on the other side of that. And when we come back, also Hollywood comes to Davenport. We're also going to talk with Rob Reiner and Martin Sheen about why they've made their way to Iowa to campaign. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, you can tell it's getting close to the Iowa caucuses when, inevitably, news anchors turn into that guy calling the ninth race an aqueduct. Did I say getting close? It's coming down to the wire. Dick Gephardt and Howard Dean are neck and neck. But Governor Dean is pulling ahead into the homestretch. It's Dean and Gephardt, Gephardt and Dean.And here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): Something is happening here.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need you, every one of you. I don't mean as a group. If I could reach out in those chairs and grab you, I would.
CROWLEY: What it is ain't exactly clear.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm here to ask Iowa veterans to join in the veteran's brigade that is crisscrossing this state, to go to the caucuses next Monday.
CROWLEY: There is closeness in the polls, urgency in the calendar, uncertainty in the voters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're looking for undecided voters or people who want to hear to what Senator Kerry has to say to come on out.
CROWLEY: In a state where Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt are expected to take the gold or silver in one order or another, the race for the bronze looms large. It puts John Kerry, a veteran of Washington, in the battlefield.
KERRY: Measure any of the others, and their records with respect to national security, fighting for peace, fighting with respect to the choices of weapons and arms control and all of those things that matter in terms of security in the country, and I believe the difference is enormous.
CROWLEY: And John Edwards, a fresh face with a sharp brain and Southern blood.
EDWARDS: This is the guy who can beat George Bush everywhere in America. In the North, in the West, in the Midwest, and talking like this in the South.
CROWLEY: An impressive third to Dean and Gephardt could keep Edwards alive and arguably strong until he moves into Southern and presumably friendlier primary ground. A strong third for Kerry would be a lifeline and start a little buzz around comeback kid. An Iowa fourth might well be the beginning of the end. Howard Dean, contender for the gold in a pitched battle with Dick Gephardt, was not seen in Iowa Tuesday, but he was heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Dick Gephardt wrote the resolution to authorize war. John Kerry and John Edwards both voted for the war. Then Dick Gephardt voted to spend another $87 billion on Iraq. Howard Dean has a different view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Not the kind of high-minded stuff you expect to hear from a confident front-runner in the final week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: The ad could well be Howard Dean's way of rallying the true believers. But a crisis in confidence in Iowa would be understandable. Here, a huge chunk of voters say they're either undecided or could change their minds. It's enough to give nightmares to a front-runner and a bit of hope to those vying for third -- Anderson.
COOPER: Candy, Gephardt has spent three days outside the state, I guess, in a quest for money. Does he need money that badly?
CROWLEY: Well, sure, if he's going to go on from here.Remember that Richard Gephardt has spend a good deal of his time and most of his money in Iowa. Now, they hope that, when they get out of Iowa with a win, they hope, that they then will be able to get some more money. But you have got to have it. And you also have to play in those other states. If there's a chance you can win -- and certainly, there's a chance that Richard Gephardt will take this Iowa caucus -- you are going to have to be able to move on. And you can't move on if you don't have money.
COOPER: That is certainly true. Candy Crowley, thanks very much for that tonight. From the play by play now to the color, here's how the day looked as it unfolded in Iowa and New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KERRY: All right, let's go rock 'n' roll here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People wait for months and months just to get an appointment.
KERRY: What's your first name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Merritt (ph).
KERRY: Merritt McArland (ph). Merritt, what year are you a vet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I?
KERRY: What year are you a vet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1950.
(CROSSTALK)
KERRY: 1950. Served in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Korea. KERRY: Korea. Well, thank you for your service, first of all. And, secondly, thank you for your confidence in what I can do with respect to it. And, thirdly, yes, I will do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was kind of leaning towards John Kerry. I really respect him as a person and as his record. But I think Senator Edwards can inspire more.
EDWARDS: Go to the caucuses for me. I need you. I need your help. I need your participation. Help us in these caucuses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another one.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I heard. I heard Senator Kerry said I was going to cut Medicare. Is that what he said?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't remember.
DEAN: Good, because it's not true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You had better not.
DEAN: I'm not going to. I'm a doctor. We do health insurance for everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of a doctor were you?
DEAN: Internal medicine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. Why don't you come back here and practice in your spare time?
DEAN: You wouldn't want to be my first patient. I haven't practiced for 12 years.
(LAUGHTER)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Obviously, if something's going to happen and you think it's imminent, you act. But to announce it as an affirmative backbone of your foreign policy, I don't think, is a wise idea, and just lends credibility to this idea that we're kind of a lone ranger of the world and we're going to do whatever we want to do whenever we want to do it.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you want to defeat George Bush and you're uneasy about Howard Dean or unsure about Wes Clark, I am your man. How are you, sweetheart?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a fan.
LIEBERMAN: Were you right there in the front row? You're a great person to have there. Yes, she is. And you've got a great smile, which always encourages a speaker.
WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to hang on just for a second, because -- Marty, I didn't -- I still want -- I want to follow up on this one point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.CLARK: Because one of the key things that we should be doing, if we've got -- and I've been asked this at several places about low- income housing and how you're going to do it. There ought to be a way for a public private partnership.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm going to want to be like "Seabiscuit" in 2004. I'm going to come from the back of the pack. And by the time we get to the Democratic Convention in Boston, I'm going to be right in the mix and have a shot at the nomination.
KUCINICH: Thanks, everyone. Pass the word.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vegans rule.
KUCINICH: Pass the word. Help us organize. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWSNIGHT will continue. We'll have Rob Reiner and actor Martin Sheen from Iowa coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, a Cabinet secretary writes a book about his experiences in a controversial presidential administration. Sound familiar? Well, I'm not talking about Secretary O'Neill. I'm talking about Secretary Robert Reich, former labor secretary who wrote a book several years ago called "Locked in the Cabinet," still available, still taught in schools around the country. No one really made a federal case of the book then. Let's talk to Robert Reich about kissing and telling. He joins us tonight from Berkeley, California. Thanks very much for being with us. Your book really was not a kiss-and-tell. But when you heard about Secretary O'Neill's book, did you think -- or the book he contributed to -- do you think he did the right thing?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Anderson, I do think he did the right thing. I think a Cabinet officer certainly has a loyalty to a president, but has a greater loyalty to the country. And if that Cabinet officer finds something that is factually amiss, such as Secretary O'Neill did, in terms of the administration aiming to get Saddam Hussein even before 9/11, I think there is a responsibility to tell that to the country.
COOPER: He said, I guess in "TIME" magazine, that his responsibility, his loyalty was to the truth. And he felt the truth was not being brought across.
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: Well, exactly. You don't check your integrity at the door when you become a Cabinet officer or leave the Cabinet. Again, if it's minor issues, if it's -- certainly, if it's classified documents, you don't want to reveal them. You can't reveal them. You shouldn't reveal them.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But, look, I'm sure plenty of stuff was going on in the White House when you were there that you were privy to that you saw that was sort of questionable or that maybe you had problems with. Yet you didn't write a book sort of detailing all those little things.
REICH: No.Most Cabinet officers who do write memoirs -- and there are many, many memoirs. And many Cabinet officers write them. And most of them are eminently forgettable. Most of those are about a person's experience in the Cabinet. Or sometimes, they're intended to elevate that Cabinet officer's experience, make that Cabinet officer seem more important than he really was. It's rare that you have really a kiss-and-tell book that does reveal important facts that the public should know. And I think that, from what I know from Secretary O'Neill's book, this is the case.
COOPER: Although he seems to be sort of backpedaling to at least some degree today, not on all fronts, but on...
REICH: There was some backpedaling this morning. It almost seemed as if yesterday some arms were twisted and he got a very, very strong message that he ought not to be out there saying what he was saying. But he did write the book. And I've read passages from the book. And he's very, very clear that the president, you know, was aiming to oust Saddam Hussein before 9/11, before weapons of mass destruction, right from the beginning. This confirms...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But should Americans be concerned, though, that -- if I was president, or if anyone is president, you would think you would want the people around you to not just sort of be thinking about gaining information, writing down notes for future books that they could be writing. Isn't there some level of sanctity to the office that should not be revealed just, you know, to sell books? Unbelievable. We've lost his audio again. This is -- we want to thank Secretary Reich for being with us. Apologize. This happened a few moments ago. It's one of those things. You can't control it.Thanks very much, Secretary Reich. Moving on to another story tonight, a fascinating story about faith, salvation and democracy, and crime and punishment as well. It's not unheard of to find religion in prison. Malcolm X, for one, comes to mind. But church and state are separate under this country's Constitution. It's a fundamental division in the democracy, which is why a new prison in Florida is raising some concerns and getting a lot of attention. Here's Aaron Brown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It looks like a revival meeting. And it certainly sounds like one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to give thanks to God for peace that I have. BROWN: And it would seem to fit the broad definition of an evening in an evangelical church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aren't you glad that he's a God of many chances?
BROWN: But this is a prison, a prison with 800 inmates. Florida's Lawtey Correctional Institution, and the first one in the nation to use faith-based rehabilitation programs for every one of its prisoners.
STERLING IVEY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS: The idea is basically that inmates, regardless of their faith, can come together, support one another, respecting one another, can learn about each other's faiths, learn more in depth about their own faith, as well as have the opportunity to take part in programs such as anger management or how to find a job.
BROWN: Every prisoner here, officials say, volunteers for either religious training, anger management sessions, or job training sessions like this one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That job is waiting for you. Take it. Do well at it. BROWN: And when you ask the inmates themselves about the program, their answers are music to the ears of Florida's state officials.
MITCH HARPER, PRISONER: The love is all over the compound, you know? It changes people's heart and their mind. And it makes people do what's right and try to not come back here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming here to this program, it taught me a lot. It taught me the fundamentals of the Bible, the principles of the Bible, of how to live your life, not to steal, not to cheat, not to commit adultery.
BROWN: No direct state funds are used. The ministers who lead the religious services are all volunteers. Even the instruments are donated. But to many, these are distinctions without a difference when it comes to whether the wall between church and state in Florida has been breached.
BARRY LYNN, EXEC. DIRECTOR, AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE: The government doesn't set up faith-based schools or faith-based police or fire departments. And it shouldn't be in the business of setting up faith-based prisoners either. Prisoners should have access to the religious services of their choice, but they shouldn't have to go through, in order to get rehabilitation, a religious revival at the same time.
BROWN: The dominant religious preference here is fundamentalist Christian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.
BROWN: But officials say 26 different religions are represented and, if the inmates here violate the rules...
IVEY: If they misbehave or receive a disciplinary report while in the program, they can be transferred to another prison. BROWN: That's something most inmates say they won't risk. This is a medium-to-minimum security prison, relatively speaking, soft time.
HARPER: It's considerably good time compared to other camps and where I came from. And I have an inner peace now that I wouldn't have before.
BROWN: The goal behind the faith-based programs is, of course, to reduce the number of inmates who return. But, to some, the road traveled to get there is the problem.
LYNN: They're organizing this on the basis of religion. It's essentially giving better conditions and a better lifestyle to people who are willing to undergo some kind of faith-based experience. And that, in our judgment, violates the Constitution, the concept of equal protection of the law, of equal treatment of people, regardless of their willingness or unwillingness to undergo any kind of religious experience.
BROWN: Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, not morning papers, but a story about papers and one reeling from the deceit of a top reporter. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, this is the place in the program where morning papers usually lives. Tonight, though, we're focusing on just one, literally front-page news. It concerns a top reporter at a national daily seen each morning by millions of readers around the country and the world, for that matter, a former reporter tonight. Here's CNN's Howard Kurtz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACK KELLEY, "USA TODAY": Now, most of the Delta Force officials...
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For much of the last 22 years, Jack Kelley has been "USA Today"'s star correspondent, parachuting into war zones, from the Persian Gulf, to the Middle East, to Chechnya. When a suicide bomber blew up a Jerusalem pizza parlor in 2001, Kelley was right outside.
BLITZER: You obviously ran outside. What did you see with and what did you here?
KELLEY: As soon as the explosion took place, I was knocked right to the ground, as was a gentleman who I was with. I turned back then and I remember seeing three bodies hitting the ground.
KURTZ: But now Kelley has resigned after admitting that he deceived the paper. During a seven-month investigation of his reporting by "USA Today," Kelley was asked to go back and verify his front-page story from Belgrade in 1999 about an ethnic cleansing order by strongman Slobodan Milosevic.But when the source of the story said she didn't remember speaking to Kelley, he told me, he panicked. Kelley had a Russian translator call "USA Today" and impersonate a Serbian translator who was said to be at the disputed interview. When the paper's private eyes caught him, he fessed up. Kelley insists, he's no Jayson Blair, the disgraced ""New York Times" man, that he never falsified any stories.And "USA Today" editors, who broke their silence on the scandal today, say they haven't found any articles that need correcting. But they say they lost confidence in Kelley and told him he had no choice but to resign. (on camera): Jack Kelley's reporting aroused suspicion because he often scored these dramatic exclusives, watching Cubans scramble on to a boat bound for Florida, hanging with Israeli settlers as they opened fire on a Palestinian taxi that no one else seemed able to match. He's been a courageous journalist. But his mistake in deceiving his bosses has sparked questions about "USA Today"'s editing process and left him under a cloud. This is Howard Kurtz.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT, the world of politics and celebrity collide in Iowa.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there's a question they used to ask a lot in the movie business. At least, they did in all those old movies on the late-night cable I watch. Will it play in Peoria? Today, it seems like half of Hollywood is right down the road in Cedar Rapids and Des Moines and Davenport, Iowa. They're stumping for their favorite candidates, Carole King for Kerry, Danny Glover for Dennis Kucinich, Joan Jett, who loves rock 'n' roll, and Howard Dean, too, also Rob Reiner, who supports Governor Dean, along with Martin Sheen.Mr. Reiner and Mr. Sheen join us now from Davenport, Iowa. And Candy Crowley rejoins us tonight from Des Moines. Thanks, all, for being with us. Rob, let me start off with you. Why are you in Iowa? Clearly, you've been brought in by the Dean campaign to kind of drum up publicity, drum up attention. What do you see your role as?
ROB REINER, DIRECTOR: Well, that's exactly it. We're right coming down the homestretch of the -- for the caucuses on the 19th. And it's about, you know, getting people energized, getting people excited about coming to the caucuses and keeping people focused. And I think, you know, we're entertainers, you know, first. And, hopefully, we get up on a stage and get a crowd whipped up into an insane frenzy, until, then, ultimately, they show up at the caucuses for Howard Dean.
COOPER: Well, Martin, how do you find people in Iowa responding to you? Because there are certainly some who are going to say, look, these are multimillionaire Hollywood hotshots coming in here telling us how we should vote.
MARTIN SHEEN, ACTOR: I wouldn't say multi, but you're close on the other half.
(LAUGHTER)
SHEEN: But I just come here as the acting president of the United States to declare next Monday, January 19, as Howard Dean day here in Iowa. And that's been a big success so far.
COOPER: That's mighty nice of you. There are a lot of similarities I could point out between your character on "West Wing" and Governor Dean. I guess a lot of people would know that. I guess you both have doctors who are wives and stuff. But, seriously, how do you find people respond to you? Do you come across any level of resentment, people saying -- there are those out there who say, look, it's like you're like shiny objects dangled in front of people to kind of distract them.
REINER: How do you feel, Anderson? How do you feel about that?
(LAUGHTER)
REINER: Are you getting excited right now? No, we have had great crowds. And we started out in Council Bluffs. And we went to Sioux City, then Mason City, now here in Davenport. We've had incredible crowds, very dedicated, passionate, committed Dean supporters. And we're there to energize the troops.
(CROSSTALK)
SHEEN: We didn't start overnight, you know, with our involvement in social activism, politics, or social justice issues. I've been doing it most of my adult life, as has Rob.
(CROSSTALK)
SHEEN: This isn't something that we do on a whim.
COOPER: You were campaigning in Iowa, also, I think, for Al Gore in the last election cycle.
SHEEN: Yes, we were. Yes.
COOPER: Let me bring in Candy Crowley. Candy, you follow these kind of campaigns a lot. How do politicians try to bring in actors, bring in famous people to try to drum up support? How does it work?
CROWLEY: Well, fortunately, they are great actors and they truly understand their roles. I mean, you know, they bring in people who -- if you've seen Howard Dean five or six times, you say, yes, yes, I've seen him, I'm going to vote for him. But, in this final week, when you're trying to rally your base and get the true faithful out and you say, you know who's showing up? Rob Reiner. You remember him. Martin Sheen. And that gets them there.It reminds them what they liked about Howard Dean and it gets them excited at about the right time. Having said that, they also, at fund-raisers -- and I don't think any of these are fund-raisers -- obviously, celebrities help in fund-raisers in other venues. But this right now is about getting everybody excited. And you bring a star in, whether it's Carole King or Martin Sheen or Rob Reiner. People want to come see them. It's a big deal.
COOPER: It certainly is. We talked about the celebrity part of it. All right, let's go back to Martin and Rob. Rob, do you think Howard Dean really can win the presidency? There are those who say, look, the guy is too liberal, can't win in the South, can't win in a general election.
REINER: I do think he can win the presidency. As a matter of fact, I think he's the only Democratic candidate that can stand toe to toe with George Bush, based on the positions he's taken vis-a-vis the war, tax cuts, No Child Left Behind.He's the only candidate that can really distinguish himself to George Bush. And if you don't like the direction that the country's going in, which I don't, I think Howard Dean is uniquely suited to go toe to toe with George Bush.
COOPER: Martin, as you pointed out, you've been in this sort of political game for quite a while. You've been active in a lot of very liberal causes over the years. Do you feel, though, that you are really in the mainstream of political thought? I mean, a lot of the causes you support are very...
SHEEN: I hope not.
COOPER: You say you hope not? Do you think Howard Dean, your candidate, is?
SHEEN: I don't want any part of that...
COOPER: Is Howard Dean in the mainstream, though?
SHEEN: No. He's better than the mainstream. He's in the lead. He's going to lead us. And people are asking, yourself included, whether he can win. I assure you, he will win.
COOPER: Candy...
SHEEN: So there.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: So there. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
SHEEN: Candy, you've seen a lot of actors come and go. What are your thoughts on these two?
CROWLEY: I have. Actually, I wanted to -- I wanted to ask either or both of them. It's one thing in a primary, where you do, in fact, get the most ardent Democrats, who do tend to be a little left of center. I wonder, in some of the generals that you all have campaigned in, do they put you in certain places? It's hard for me to believe that, in some of those swing areas in the South, whether or not you perceive yourselves as being liberals, I think most, you know, Republican, centrist Democrats would consider you liberals. Do you sort of pick the places that you go?
SHEEN: Well, I don't consider myself either one of the descriptions you referred to. I consider myself human. And I respond to the human needs that I'm asked to get involved in. And it's a reflection of who I am, where I come from, and what I personally stand for. It's not about pleasing one side or another on any given day. You know, there are a lot more people now opposed to this war. In the beginning, there was only a few. And Howard Dean was one of the first public figures to oppose it. And we all took a terrible beating when we stood up against it. And now we're being vindicated. So there's a lot of discussion, a lot of debate that has not been touched on yet in this presidential year. And I promise you, you're going to be in for some big surprises.
COOPER: But, Martin, you...
SHEEN: And the war is the key issue.
COOPER: Martin, you say you're not sort of -- you know, that you're just a human and that you're not there to just kind of push people ahead. But that's what you are there for in these coming days, six days to this caucus.
SHEEN: No, but I don't -- well, I'm saying, I don't make the rules that govern these issues or that govern the human heart or the universe. I just try to respond to a human need. I see someone with courage who is trying to make a difference in the public arena. And I join the debate and support them. And that's why I'm here for Howard Dean.
(CROSSTALK)
SHEEN: And that's why I was there for...
COOPER: Do you think, Rob, that there are places that you're more effective in a campaign like this? Are all events events that you think you can bring something to, or are you used selectively?
REINER: Well, Candy referred to the general, which is a lot different, obviously, than primaries. But even in a general, what you look at -- this is no surprise. We know what the battleground states are. There are 15 or 17, depending on how you look at the electoral map. And we're usually used in those very tight races, in those very tight battleground states down the homestretch, very much the way we're used here in Iowa when it's crunch time. Last time, during the 2000 election, Martin and I crisscrossed the country for Al Gore. And we went to all of those places where we could make a difference. You're not going to spend a lot of time and effort campaigning in states that you don't really have a chance to win. But there are those toss-up battleground states where energizing the base, getting the vote out, can make a huge difference.
COOPER: All right, we're going to have to leave it there. Rob Reiner, Martin Sheen and Candy Crowley, all of you, appreciate you joining us tonight. Thanks very much.
REINER: Thank you.
COOPER: Before we leave you, another look at our top story. Paul O'Neill, the former treasury secretary, seemed to back away from some of what he said in a book about his time in the Bush administration. He now says he never meant to suggest President Bush from day one was in a rush to war with Iraq. Tomorrow night on the program, in the wake of the mad cow scare, is enough really being done in the way of safety? Some say the greed of the cattle industry is standing in the way of meaningful reform. Others say not. We'll talk about that.And coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," the architect who designed the World Trade Center memorial, Michael Arad, explains his vision and tells about his final design changes. Will they be enough to end the criticism coming from victims' families? That is tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. Eastern. I'll be on tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Hope you'll join me for that.Good night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.comCollege Professor Criticizes Bush; Paul O'Neill Backs Off>
Aired January 13, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone. What a difference a day can make. Former White House insider Paul O'Neill came out swinging at his former boss, President Bush, Sunday night on "60 Minutes." At least that's how it sounded. The interview and the new book that led to it set off a political firestorm, it's fair to say,.Well, now, Mr. O'Neill says his blunt criticisms of the president are being distorted. And that's where "The Whip" begins tonight, with today's softer, kinder message from Mr. O'Neill. So first stop, the White House and CNN's John King.John, a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Mr. O'Neill today saying that he, by no means, meant to suggest that George W. Bush went out of on some reckless pursuit from day one of war in Iraq. O'Neill also says he is confident he'll be found of no wrongdoing when it comes to the question of whether he improperly took classified materials with him when he was fired -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right.On to ammunition for those who oppose the war in Iraq. It comes from an unexpected corner.CNN's Jamie McIntyre with that today and the headline -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a visiting professor at the Army's War College sharply criticized the Bush administration for linking the war against Iraq with the war on terror. He called the war against Iraq unnecessary and also called for serious consideration of increasing the size of the U.S. military. The Pentagon dismissed it all today as one man's opinion.
COOPER: All right, we'll talk more about that in a moment.Next, are the people in charge of guarding against terrorism in much of Washington up to the job? CNN's Kathleen Koch is on that tonight. Kathleen, a headline from you.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, they protect the Lincoln, the Jefferson, the Washington, monuments, that is, but inspectors in September found some U.S. Park Police literally asleep at the wheel.
COOPER: All right, back to you in a moment. Finally to Iowa. Six days to go. Cold, contentious, and Candy Crowley's territory tonight, as always.Candy, the headline.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the headline is a question. When is a third really a win? And the answer is in Iowa caucuses. And there is a huge race on now for third.
COOPER: All right, no place like Iowa. Candy, thanks. Back to all of you in a moment. Also ahead tonight on the program, we're going to talk with two Hollywood stars, Rob Reiner and Martin Sheen, in Iowa to campaign for their favorite candidate. Later, we'll visit a prison where religion plays a central role in trying to rehabilitate inmates. And another black eye for a newspaper, as a top "USA Today" correspondent resigns for deceiving the paper. All that to come in the hour ahead. We begin with former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill. The new book in which he sharply criticizes President Bush is in stores today, but the controversy surrounding it has been brewing for days now. It wasn't just what he said on "60 Minutes," that the president was bent on targeting Iraq long before 9/11. It was also the document marked secret shown in the interview. The White House took issue with both. And today, Mr. O'Neill was busy clarifying. Here's CNN's John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill says he never meant to suggest President Bush was in a rush to war from day one.
PAUL O'NEILL, FMR. TREASURY SECRETARY: Well, actually, there was a continuation of work that had been going on in the Clinton administration, with the notion that there needed to be regime change in Iraq.
KING: On NBC's "Today," O'Neill again insisted he never saw firm evidence that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. But he said there was intelligence suggesting such weapons.
O'NEILL: And it's why we have a president. We elected George Bush and he decided it was good enough.
KING: And on perhaps the most quoted line in the price of loyalty, calling the president leading a cabinet meeting like a blind man in a room full of death people.
O'NEILL: But if I could take it back, I'd take that back. KING: O'Neill's softer tone came as others in those early national security meetings took issue with suggestions Mr. Bush was predisposed to war. Retired Army General Hugh Shelton, the military's top officer at the time, tells CNN he "saw nothing in the first six months of the Bush administration that would lead me to believe we were any closer to attacking Iraq than we had been in the previous administration." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld echoed Shelton's view about Iraq and disputed O'Neill's characterization of a detached president.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What I've been reading about the book is so different from my experience in this administration, it is just dramatic. It is night and day.
KING: Secretary Rumsfeld said he twice called his old friend about the book project, the second time after being told O'Neill was highly critical of the president.
RUMSFELD: I said, you didn't go and do that, did you, Paul? I can't believe that. And he said, well, there's -- there will be people who feel that way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now, O'Neill also said today that he's absolutely certain he did not take any classified materials with him when he was fired from the government. But he says he's not surprised at all that the Treasury Department now is looking into that question. And, Anderson, many Democrats say that investigation to them is proof of political retaliation by the Bush White House. Secretary O'Neill says he doesn't think so and that, if he was still in office, he would order exactly the same review himself.
COOPER: And, at this point, it is just a review?
KING: It is a review. The Office of Inspector General will now essentially look at the inventory of what Secretary O'Neill was authorized to take with him, look at the "60 Minutes" report from Sunday night, look at the book and see if perhaps any classified documents were cited in those reports and then determine where it came from. They say they had to do this. They're insisting the White House had nothing to do it. And the question is, when will it end? And officials at the Treasury Department say, it could take a few days, it could take a few weeks, maybe a few months.
COOPER: All right, John King at the White House -- thanks very much, John. All this as a new report takes aim at the U.S. invasion of Iraq. It was written by a visiting professor at the U.S. Army War College who is sharply critical of the Bush administration for linking the war in Iraq with the global war on terror. The Pentagon today dismissed it as one person's opinion. Reporting the story for us, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The U.S. invasion of Iraq was an unnecessary preventive war of choice that was not integral to the war on terrorism, but rather a detour from it. That's the conclusion of Jeffrey Record, a visiting professor at the Army War College, and a former aide to Democratic senators Sam Nunn and Lloyd Bentsen.
JEFFREY RECORD, PROFESSOR, ARMY WAR COLLEGE: I think the invasion of Iraq was a diversion from the more narrower focus on defeating al Qaeda.
MCINTYRE: Record argues in a paper published last month, "The global war on terrorism is strategically unfocused, promises more than it can deliver, and threatens to dissipate scarce U.S. military means over too many ends." A disclaimer makes clear that's not the official position of the Army, something Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld underscored as he dismissed the criticism.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The person wrote an article, like an op-ed piece. And it's out there. And everyone is free to say whatever they think. That is the position of some people in the United States and in the world, what he repeated. And that's fine. It obviously is inaccurate.
MCINTYRE: The professor also echoed the sentiments of many congressional critics, who argue the U.S. military is too small, something Rumsfeld also rejects.
RUMSFELD: We hope and believe that the current stress that is put on the force is a spike, if you will, a temporary increase, rather than a -- what would prove to be a plateau.
MCINTYRE: To critics who argue the U.S. military needs two more divisions, Rumsfeld has a ready answer. It already has them. By keeping more troops in uniform longer, either by delaying their departure or allowing them to reenlist, there are some 36,000 more troops than usual in the U.S. military.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld insists, making that temporary increase in troop strength permanent would be the slowest and most expensive solution. Nevertheless, he says, he's prepared to propose it if his short-term fixes don't get the job done -- Anderson. COOPER: Jamie, I've to tell you, I'm a little confused by the story. Help me out here. The Army War College, this guy is just a visiting professor for the Army War College and he basically just wrote sort of an academic paper. Why is it being made such a big deal out of?
MCINTYRE: Well, I think for a couple reasons. One is, he's a visiting professor, but he's normally a professor at the Air War College in Maxwell Air Force Base. And he has a pretty good reputation. He's written a number of books as a military thinker. But keep in mind also that his job as a professor is to challenge his students, who are majors and sometimes lieutenant colonels in the military, who could be future military leaders. And the whole idea is to get them thinking about the conventional wisdom and questioning it and thinking for themselves, so that the next generation of military leaders will have some original thoughts. So he's writing this provocative piece, really just doing his job.
COOPER: And it is a college, after all. And we should point out also, he was an aide to Democratic senators in his past life, I guess, before professor.
MCINTYRE: Well, we should also point out also that he's written papers critical of military strategy under the Clinton administration as well.
COOPER: All right, good to point out. Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much, at the Pentagon tonight.On to Iraq itself. It's been a month since Saddam Hussein was captured, but north and west of Baghdad in the so-called Sunni Triangle, where cad support for the former Iraqi leader is strongest, today, it looked like it has for some time, the picture not pretty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another American helicopter down. The third wreck in two weeks in Iraq's Sunni Triangle, heartland of the guerrilla war against the occupying coalition. This time it's an Apache Attack helicopter. A U.S. military spokesman says it was probably shot down by insurgents. The two-man crew survive. Witnesses near the town of Habbaniyah, west of Baghdad, say they saw a flash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The rocket hit the helicopter on the tail and fire erupted. The pilot discharge his weapons. Then the helicopter lost control and crash landed. The crew of the helicopter fled and the rescue services arrived. PENHAUL: Trouble too in a neighboring triangle town, Fallujah. Town officials say unidentified attackers fired a rocket at U.S. paratroopers guarding the mayor's office. Officials say soldiers returned fire, and three people, including a woman were killed. Seven others were injured in the gunfight. Earlier in the day, several hundred protesters demonstrated against U.S. forces who had detained an Iraqi bride as they searched for her husband. She was released. Unrest too in the Shia Muslim dominated south. A second day of demonstrations against chronic unemployment in the city of al Kut. Coalition commanders say there was no violence but wire services report seven injured in clashes between jobless protesters and Ukrainian coalition troops. The protests, like other seen at the weekend further south in Amara, coincide with a political controversy sparked by Shia spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. The media-shy ayatollah rarely pictured on camera is calling for general elections to choose a new Iraqi government. But coalition administrators say the leadership will be selected by a series of regional committees or caucuses.
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR: The problem we have is time. It will take time to produce an electoral law to get a political parties law to draw constituent boundaries so we have a voter's list. PENHAUL (on camera): The dispute between the coalition and the cleric may be gaining pace, but there's no sign the Shia majority will mount the kind of armed resistance that's taken root in the Sunni Triangle. Karl Penhaul, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Now to Israel and the wall going up between Israelis and Palestinians. There's tremendous debate within Israel about the wisdom of it, as well as outcry from the Palestinians over how it redraws the border between the two. But leaving that aside, there's also a terrible irony. The Israelis may be building it, but, in one place at least, it's Palestinians doing the work. Here's CNN's Matthew Chance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The reinforced concrete slabs that Israel says will make its people safer. With the prime minister still threatening to separate from the Palestinians if there's no peace, what Israel calls its security barrier is taking shape. At $7, there's no shortage of Palestinian labor by the hour, the poor willing to work, but too ashamed, they told us, to speak. There must be fear of reprisals too. People have been murdered, they told us, for doing this work. In the concrete's shadow, residents like Omar Saleh talk of land confiscated and families cut off from jobs and schools. But no one is listening to them, he says.
OMAR SALEH, RESIDENT: We are now praying to God, nobody else. You know, he's strong. He can do what he want. Nobody catch him. Nobody give him the way to stop.
CHANCE: Despite opposition home and abroad, Israel seems determined to press on. (on camera): For the moment, this is a steel and concrete structure still very much under construction. But it's also what Ariel Sharon's plan for disengagement could actually look like. Many Palestinians and Israelis alike believe this vast structure could soon become an imposed and un-negotiated border. (voice-over): The Israeli prime minister has again been speaking about disengagement. In a few months, he told Israeli lawmakers, it could be time. Jewish settlers and their supporters, who don't want to give up any land, sense betrayal. But as the rights and wrongs of the plan are debated, ground work is moving apace. Matthew Chance, CNN, Abu Dis, in the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, still ahead tonight on the program, a dramatic security failure, as U.S. Park Police basically sleep through a test of how alert they are to terrorism. And later, we'll head to Florida, where a faith-based prison program has both critics and converts. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there has been a battle brewing in Washington over the firing of the chief of the U.S. Park Police. It's become a medium-sized scandal, more so inside the Beltway. But it's being overshadowed tonight by another potential scandal involving the Park Police and some places in Washington visited by millions of people every year. Here's CNN's Kathleen Koch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH (voice-over): Interior Department investigators expected tight security at the Washington Monument around the second anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. But, instead, according to a department report, they found security dangerously lax.
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), WASHINGTON, D.C. DELEGATE: It looks like these people have been trained to do diddly-squat.
KOCH: On the anniversary, investigators took a black plastic bag to the rear of the monument and set it at the base. According to their report, the bag full of trash that just as easily could have been explosives sat there for 20 minutes. Investigators then carried it to the front and put it next to the security kiosk, where visitors enter. Again, it sat unnoticed for about 15 minutes. Where were U.S. Park Police, charged with guarding the monument? The day before, investigators found some sitting inside, but never leaving the monument. On September 11, while Park Rangers were present, the only officer was asleep in an unmarked patrol car.
NORTON: Don't make this a cop problem. This is a failure of the National Park Service, top to bottom, to train all of its personnel for the new 9/11 era in which we live.
KOCH: The inspection came on the heels of a scathing August report critical of park security nationwide. The September report concluded, the National Park Service and U.S. Park Police -- quote -- "have such complacency that it causes us to question their value and purpose."But Park Police insist, security has been improved.
SGT. SCOTT FEAR, U.S. PARK POLICE: We devised a new plan and we implemented it as soon as we could. So changes were made.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: So this does come as U.S. Park Police are about to lose their police chief, Teresa Chambers. She was charged in November with insubordination for talking with the media about security and budget challenges. Ironically, she is the one who is credited with, in October, making some of the security improvements that inspectors asked for. And she could lose her job as soon as this week -- Anderson.
COOPER: Interesting.Kathleen Koch in Washington -- thanks, Kathleen.A few other stories making news around the country right now, starting in Florida, with radio host's Rush Limbaugh's medical records. Prosecutors were allowed to see them last month and they were sealed, but not moved. Today, a state appeals court ordered prosecutors to turn them over, pending an appeal in the case. Prosecutors are investigating whether Mr. Limbaugh went doctor shopping to obtain painkillers. A victory for law enforcement agencies today. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that police may set up roadblocks to seek help from motorists in solving recent crimes. The legality of these so-called informational checkpoints had been in doubt. At least four people were killed today when a tanker truck carrying flammable liquid plunged off an overpass, landed on I-95 south of Baltimore. The tanker hit a tractor trailer, at least two cars, setting off a huge fire, as you can see.And in Connecticut, Governor John Rowland is under federal investigation and intense pressure to resign. Today, he warned state legislators that their own ethical shortcomings could come to light if they press for his impeachment. Interesting.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, just what can you say once you left the government? What can you and what can't you say? We'll talk about the case of former Treasury Secretary O'Neill with Robert Reich, who left his job as labor secretary during the Clinton administration. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, more now on Paul O'Neill's literary adventure and the perils of speaking your mind so soon after being shown the Cabinet door. Robert Reich served as secretary of labor in the first Clinton administration. He wrote a book about his experiences, though, to the best of our recollection, nobody made a federal case out of it. He joins us tonight from Berkeley, California. Secretary Reich, thanks for being with us. Your book was really a very different sort of tone. It really was not a kiss-and-tell book, in that regard. When you heard about what Secretary O'Neill had done, do you think he did the right thing? Clearly, we're having an audio problem. We will try to get back to Secretary Reich in a moment. We apologize for that.Before we take a break, let's take our "MONEYLINE Roundup," starting with Enron. Former CFO Andrew Fastow and his wife have agreed to plead guilty for their roles in the accounting scandal that brought Enron down. Lea Fastow is expected to plead to a tax charge. No details yet about her husband's deal, except that it involves a 10- year sentence and presumably his testimony against other Enron executives. Chrysler is recalling 2.7 million cars to fix a potential problem with a gear shift Models to look out for include the Chrysler Cirrus, Dodge Stratus and Plymouth Breeze. Also on the list, the Sebring convertible, 300M, Concorde, LHS, the Dodge Intrepid, and Eagle Vision. The price of oil is at a postwar high, topping $35 a barrel for light sweet crude. Mmm, light sweet crude. Cold weather takes part of the blame for that and my mispronunciation.And markets today were down. A tech sell-off started the slide. Remarks from Fed Chairman Greenspan, they didn't help much either. We're going to go to a short break. We're going to try to get Secretary Reich back on the other side of that. And when we come back, also Hollywood comes to Davenport. We're also going to talk with Rob Reiner and Martin Sheen about why they've made their way to Iowa to campaign. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, you can tell it's getting close to the Iowa caucuses when, inevitably, news anchors turn into that guy calling the ninth race an aqueduct. Did I say getting close? It's coming down to the wire. Dick Gephardt and Howard Dean are neck and neck. But Governor Dean is pulling ahead into the homestretch. It's Dean and Gephardt, Gephardt and Dean.And here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): Something is happening here.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I need you, every one of you. I don't mean as a group. If I could reach out in those chairs and grab you, I would.
CROWLEY: What it is ain't exactly clear.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm here to ask Iowa veterans to join in the veteran's brigade that is crisscrossing this state, to go to the caucuses next Monday.
CROWLEY: There is closeness in the polls, urgency in the calendar, uncertainty in the voters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're looking for undecided voters or people who want to hear to what Senator Kerry has to say to come on out.
CROWLEY: In a state where Howard Dean and Dick Gephardt are expected to take the gold or silver in one order or another, the race for the bronze looms large. It puts John Kerry, a veteran of Washington, in the battlefield.
KERRY: Measure any of the others, and their records with respect to national security, fighting for peace, fighting with respect to the choices of weapons and arms control and all of those things that matter in terms of security in the country, and I believe the difference is enormous.
CROWLEY: And John Edwards, a fresh face with a sharp brain and Southern blood.
EDWARDS: This is the guy who can beat George Bush everywhere in America. In the North, in the West, in the Midwest, and talking like this in the South.
CROWLEY: An impressive third to Dean and Gephardt could keep Edwards alive and arguably strong until he moves into Southern and presumably friendlier primary ground. A strong third for Kerry would be a lifeline and start a little buzz around comeback kid. An Iowa fourth might well be the beginning of the end. Howard Dean, contender for the gold in a pitched battle with Dick Gephardt, was not seen in Iowa Tuesday, but he was heard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Dick Gephardt wrote the resolution to authorize war. John Kerry and John Edwards both voted for the war. Then Dick Gephardt voted to spend another $87 billion on Iraq. Howard Dean has a different view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Not the kind of high-minded stuff you expect to hear from a confident front-runner in the final week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: The ad could well be Howard Dean's way of rallying the true believers. But a crisis in confidence in Iowa would be understandable. Here, a huge chunk of voters say they're either undecided or could change their minds. It's enough to give nightmares to a front-runner and a bit of hope to those vying for third -- Anderson.
COOPER: Candy, Gephardt has spent three days outside the state, I guess, in a quest for money. Does he need money that badly?
CROWLEY: Well, sure, if he's going to go on from here.Remember that Richard Gephardt has spend a good deal of his time and most of his money in Iowa. Now, they hope that, when they get out of Iowa with a win, they hope, that they then will be able to get some more money. But you have got to have it. And you also have to play in those other states. If there's a chance you can win -- and certainly, there's a chance that Richard Gephardt will take this Iowa caucus -- you are going to have to be able to move on. And you can't move on if you don't have money.
COOPER: That is certainly true. Candy Crowley, thanks very much for that tonight. From the play by play now to the color, here's how the day looked as it unfolded in Iowa and New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KERRY: All right, let's go rock 'n' roll here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People wait for months and months just to get an appointment.
KERRY: What's your first name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Merritt (ph).
KERRY: Merritt McArland (ph). Merritt, what year are you a vet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I?
KERRY: What year are you a vet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1950.
(CROSSTALK)
KERRY: 1950. Served in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Korea. KERRY: Korea. Well, thank you for your service, first of all. And, secondly, thank you for your confidence in what I can do with respect to it. And, thirdly, yes, I will do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was kind of leaning towards John Kerry. I really respect him as a person and as his record. But I think Senator Edwards can inspire more.
EDWARDS: Go to the caucuses for me. I need you. I need your help. I need your participation. Help us in these caucuses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another one.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I heard. I heard Senator Kerry said I was going to cut Medicare. Is that what he said?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't remember.
DEAN: Good, because it's not true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You had better not.
DEAN: I'm not going to. I'm a doctor. We do health insurance for everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of a doctor were you?
DEAN: Internal medicine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. Why don't you come back here and practice in your spare time?
DEAN: You wouldn't want to be my first patient. I haven't practiced for 12 years.
(LAUGHTER)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Obviously, if something's going to happen and you think it's imminent, you act. But to announce it as an affirmative backbone of your foreign policy, I don't think, is a wise idea, and just lends credibility to this idea that we're kind of a lone ranger of the world and we're going to do whatever we want to do whenever we want to do it.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you want to defeat George Bush and you're uneasy about Howard Dean or unsure about Wes Clark, I am your man. How are you, sweetheart?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's a fan.
LIEBERMAN: Were you right there in the front row? You're a great person to have there. Yes, she is. And you've got a great smile, which always encourages a speaker.
WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to hang on just for a second, because -- Marty, I didn't -- I still want -- I want to follow up on this one point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.CLARK: Because one of the key things that we should be doing, if we've got -- and I've been asked this at several places about low- income housing and how you're going to do it. There ought to be a way for a public private partnership.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm going to want to be like "Seabiscuit" in 2004. I'm going to come from the back of the pack. And by the time we get to the Democratic Convention in Boston, I'm going to be right in the mix and have a shot at the nomination.
KUCINICH: Thanks, everyone. Pass the word.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vegans rule.
KUCINICH: Pass the word. Help us organize. Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWSNIGHT will continue. We'll have Rob Reiner and actor Martin Sheen from Iowa coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, a Cabinet secretary writes a book about his experiences in a controversial presidential administration. Sound familiar? Well, I'm not talking about Secretary O'Neill. I'm talking about Secretary Robert Reich, former labor secretary who wrote a book several years ago called "Locked in the Cabinet," still available, still taught in schools around the country. No one really made a federal case of the book then. Let's talk to Robert Reich about kissing and telling. He joins us tonight from Berkeley, California. Thanks very much for being with us. Your book really was not a kiss-and-tell. But when you heard about Secretary O'Neill's book, did you think -- or the book he contributed to -- do you think he did the right thing?
ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Anderson, I do think he did the right thing. I think a Cabinet officer certainly has a loyalty to a president, but has a greater loyalty to the country. And if that Cabinet officer finds something that is factually amiss, such as Secretary O'Neill did, in terms of the administration aiming to get Saddam Hussein even before 9/11, I think there is a responsibility to tell that to the country.
COOPER: He said, I guess in "TIME" magazine, that his responsibility, his loyalty was to the truth. And he felt the truth was not being brought across.
(CROSSTALK)
REICH: Well, exactly. You don't check your integrity at the door when you become a Cabinet officer or leave the Cabinet. Again, if it's minor issues, if it's -- certainly, if it's classified documents, you don't want to reveal them. You can't reveal them. You shouldn't reveal them.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But, look, I'm sure plenty of stuff was going on in the White House when you were there that you were privy to that you saw that was sort of questionable or that maybe you had problems with. Yet you didn't write a book sort of detailing all those little things.
REICH: No.Most Cabinet officers who do write memoirs -- and there are many, many memoirs. And many Cabinet officers write them. And most of them are eminently forgettable. Most of those are about a person's experience in the Cabinet. Or sometimes, they're intended to elevate that Cabinet officer's experience, make that Cabinet officer seem more important than he really was. It's rare that you have really a kiss-and-tell book that does reveal important facts that the public should know. And I think that, from what I know from Secretary O'Neill's book, this is the case.
COOPER: Although he seems to be sort of backpedaling to at least some degree today, not on all fronts, but on...
REICH: There was some backpedaling this morning. It almost seemed as if yesterday some arms were twisted and he got a very, very strong message that he ought not to be out there saying what he was saying. But he did write the book. And I've read passages from the book. And he's very, very clear that the president, you know, was aiming to oust Saddam Hussein before 9/11, before weapons of mass destruction, right from the beginning. This confirms...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: But should Americans be concerned, though, that -- if I was president, or if anyone is president, you would think you would want the people around you to not just sort of be thinking about gaining information, writing down notes for future books that they could be writing. Isn't there some level of sanctity to the office that should not be revealed just, you know, to sell books? Unbelievable. We've lost his audio again. This is -- we want to thank Secretary Reich for being with us. Apologize. This happened a few moments ago. It's one of those things. You can't control it.Thanks very much, Secretary Reich. Moving on to another story tonight, a fascinating story about faith, salvation and democracy, and crime and punishment as well. It's not unheard of to find religion in prison. Malcolm X, for one, comes to mind. But church and state are separate under this country's Constitution. It's a fundamental division in the democracy, which is why a new prison in Florida is raising some concerns and getting a lot of attention. Here's Aaron Brown.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It looks like a revival meeting. And it certainly sounds like one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to give thanks to God for peace that I have. BROWN: And it would seem to fit the broad definition of an evening in an evangelical church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aren't you glad that he's a God of many chances?
BROWN: But this is a prison, a prison with 800 inmates. Florida's Lawtey Correctional Institution, and the first one in the nation to use faith-based rehabilitation programs for every one of its prisoners.
STERLING IVEY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS: The idea is basically that inmates, regardless of their faith, can come together, support one another, respecting one another, can learn about each other's faiths, learn more in depth about their own faith, as well as have the opportunity to take part in programs such as anger management or how to find a job.
BROWN: Every prisoner here, officials say, volunteers for either religious training, anger management sessions, or job training sessions like this one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That job is waiting for you. Take it. Do well at it. BROWN: And when you ask the inmates themselves about the program, their answers are music to the ears of Florida's state officials.
MITCH HARPER, PRISONER: The love is all over the compound, you know? It changes people's heart and their mind. And it makes people do what's right and try to not come back here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming here to this program, it taught me a lot. It taught me the fundamentals of the Bible, the principles of the Bible, of how to live your life, not to steal, not to cheat, not to commit adultery.
BROWN: No direct state funds are used. The ministers who lead the religious services are all volunteers. Even the instruments are donated. But to many, these are distinctions without a difference when it comes to whether the wall between church and state in Florida has been breached.
BARRY LYNN, EXEC. DIRECTOR, AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE: The government doesn't set up faith-based schools or faith-based police or fire departments. And it shouldn't be in the business of setting up faith-based prisoners either. Prisoners should have access to the religious services of their choice, but they shouldn't have to go through, in order to get rehabilitation, a religious revival at the same time.
BROWN: The dominant religious preference here is fundamentalist Christian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.
BROWN: But officials say 26 different religions are represented and, if the inmates here violate the rules...
IVEY: If they misbehave or receive a disciplinary report while in the program, they can be transferred to another prison. BROWN: That's something most inmates say they won't risk. This is a medium-to-minimum security prison, relatively speaking, soft time.
HARPER: It's considerably good time compared to other camps and where I came from. And I have an inner peace now that I wouldn't have before.
BROWN: The goal behind the faith-based programs is, of course, to reduce the number of inmates who return. But, to some, the road traveled to get there is the problem.
LYNN: They're organizing this on the basis of religion. It's essentially giving better conditions and a better lifestyle to people who are willing to undergo some kind of faith-based experience. And that, in our judgment, violates the Constitution, the concept of equal protection of the law, of equal treatment of people, regardless of their willingness or unwillingness to undergo any kind of religious experience.
BROWN: Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, not morning papers, but a story about papers and one reeling from the deceit of a top reporter. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, this is the place in the program where morning papers usually lives. Tonight, though, we're focusing on just one, literally front-page news. It concerns a top reporter at a national daily seen each morning by millions of readers around the country and the world, for that matter, a former reporter tonight. Here's CNN's Howard Kurtz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACK KELLEY, "USA TODAY": Now, most of the Delta Force officials...
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For much of the last 22 years, Jack Kelley has been "USA Today"'s star correspondent, parachuting into war zones, from the Persian Gulf, to the Middle East, to Chechnya. When a suicide bomber blew up a Jerusalem pizza parlor in 2001, Kelley was right outside.
BLITZER: You obviously ran outside. What did you see with and what did you here?
KELLEY: As soon as the explosion took place, I was knocked right to the ground, as was a gentleman who I was with. I turned back then and I remember seeing three bodies hitting the ground.
KURTZ: But now Kelley has resigned after admitting that he deceived the paper. During a seven-month investigation of his reporting by "USA Today," Kelley was asked to go back and verify his front-page story from Belgrade in 1999 about an ethnic cleansing order by strongman Slobodan Milosevic.But when the source of the story said she didn't remember speaking to Kelley, he told me, he panicked. Kelley had a Russian translator call "USA Today" and impersonate a Serbian translator who was said to be at the disputed interview. When the paper's private eyes caught him, he fessed up. Kelley insists, he's no Jayson Blair, the disgraced ""New York Times" man, that he never falsified any stories.And "USA Today" editors, who broke their silence on the scandal today, say they haven't found any articles that need correcting. But they say they lost confidence in Kelley and told him he had no choice but to resign. (on camera): Jack Kelley's reporting aroused suspicion because he often scored these dramatic exclusives, watching Cubans scramble on to a boat bound for Florida, hanging with Israeli settlers as they opened fire on a Palestinian taxi that no one else seemed able to match. He's been a courageous journalist. But his mistake in deceiving his bosses has sparked questions about "USA Today"'s editing process and left him under a cloud. This is Howard Kurtz.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Next on NEWSNIGHT, the world of politics and celebrity collide in Iowa.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, there's a question they used to ask a lot in the movie business. At least, they did in all those old movies on the late-night cable I watch. Will it play in Peoria? Today, it seems like half of Hollywood is right down the road in Cedar Rapids and Des Moines and Davenport, Iowa. They're stumping for their favorite candidates, Carole King for Kerry, Danny Glover for Dennis Kucinich, Joan Jett, who loves rock 'n' roll, and Howard Dean, too, also Rob Reiner, who supports Governor Dean, along with Martin Sheen.Mr. Reiner and Mr. Sheen join us now from Davenport, Iowa. And Candy Crowley rejoins us tonight from Des Moines. Thanks, all, for being with us. Rob, let me start off with you. Why are you in Iowa? Clearly, you've been brought in by the Dean campaign to kind of drum up publicity, drum up attention. What do you see your role as?
ROB REINER, DIRECTOR: Well, that's exactly it. We're right coming down the homestretch of the -- for the caucuses on the 19th. And it's about, you know, getting people energized, getting people excited about coming to the caucuses and keeping people focused. And I think, you know, we're entertainers, you know, first. And, hopefully, we get up on a stage and get a crowd whipped up into an insane frenzy, until, then, ultimately, they show up at the caucuses for Howard Dean.
COOPER: Well, Martin, how do you find people in Iowa responding to you? Because there are certainly some who are going to say, look, these are multimillionaire Hollywood hotshots coming in here telling us how we should vote.
MARTIN SHEEN, ACTOR: I wouldn't say multi, but you're close on the other half.
(LAUGHTER)
SHEEN: But I just come here as the acting president of the United States to declare next Monday, January 19, as Howard Dean day here in Iowa. And that's been a big success so far.
COOPER: That's mighty nice of you. There are a lot of similarities I could point out between your character on "West Wing" and Governor Dean. I guess a lot of people would know that. I guess you both have doctors who are wives and stuff. But, seriously, how do you find people respond to you? Do you come across any level of resentment, people saying -- there are those out there who say, look, it's like you're like shiny objects dangled in front of people to kind of distract them.
REINER: How do you feel, Anderson? How do you feel about that?
(LAUGHTER)
REINER: Are you getting excited right now? No, we have had great crowds. And we started out in Council Bluffs. And we went to Sioux City, then Mason City, now here in Davenport. We've had incredible crowds, very dedicated, passionate, committed Dean supporters. And we're there to energize the troops.
(CROSSTALK)
SHEEN: We didn't start overnight, you know, with our involvement in social activism, politics, or social justice issues. I've been doing it most of my adult life, as has Rob.
(CROSSTALK)
SHEEN: This isn't something that we do on a whim.
COOPER: You were campaigning in Iowa, also, I think, for Al Gore in the last election cycle.
SHEEN: Yes, we were. Yes.
COOPER: Let me bring in Candy Crowley. Candy, you follow these kind of campaigns a lot. How do politicians try to bring in actors, bring in famous people to try to drum up support? How does it work?
CROWLEY: Well, fortunately, they are great actors and they truly understand their roles. I mean, you know, they bring in people who -- if you've seen Howard Dean five or six times, you say, yes, yes, I've seen him, I'm going to vote for him. But, in this final week, when you're trying to rally your base and get the true faithful out and you say, you know who's showing up? Rob Reiner. You remember him. Martin Sheen. And that gets them there.It reminds them what they liked about Howard Dean and it gets them excited at about the right time. Having said that, they also, at fund-raisers -- and I don't think any of these are fund-raisers -- obviously, celebrities help in fund-raisers in other venues. But this right now is about getting everybody excited. And you bring a star in, whether it's Carole King or Martin Sheen or Rob Reiner. People want to come see them. It's a big deal.
COOPER: It certainly is. We talked about the celebrity part of it. All right, let's go back to Martin and Rob. Rob, do you think Howard Dean really can win the presidency? There are those who say, look, the guy is too liberal, can't win in the South, can't win in a general election.
REINER: I do think he can win the presidency. As a matter of fact, I think he's the only Democratic candidate that can stand toe to toe with George Bush, based on the positions he's taken vis-a-vis the war, tax cuts, No Child Left Behind.He's the only candidate that can really distinguish himself to George Bush. And if you don't like the direction that the country's going in, which I don't, I think Howard Dean is uniquely suited to go toe to toe with George Bush.
COOPER: Martin, as you pointed out, you've been in this sort of political game for quite a while. You've been active in a lot of very liberal causes over the years. Do you feel, though, that you are really in the mainstream of political thought? I mean, a lot of the causes you support are very...
SHEEN: I hope not.
COOPER: You say you hope not? Do you think Howard Dean, your candidate, is?
SHEEN: I don't want any part of that...
COOPER: Is Howard Dean in the mainstream, though?
SHEEN: No. He's better than the mainstream. He's in the lead. He's going to lead us. And people are asking, yourself included, whether he can win. I assure you, he will win.
COOPER: Candy...
SHEEN: So there.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: So there. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
SHEEN: Candy, you've seen a lot of actors come and go. What are your thoughts on these two?
CROWLEY: I have. Actually, I wanted to -- I wanted to ask either or both of them. It's one thing in a primary, where you do, in fact, get the most ardent Democrats, who do tend to be a little left of center. I wonder, in some of the generals that you all have campaigned in, do they put you in certain places? It's hard for me to believe that, in some of those swing areas in the South, whether or not you perceive yourselves as being liberals, I think most, you know, Republican, centrist Democrats would consider you liberals. Do you sort of pick the places that you go?
SHEEN: Well, I don't consider myself either one of the descriptions you referred to. I consider myself human. And I respond to the human needs that I'm asked to get involved in. And it's a reflection of who I am, where I come from, and what I personally stand for. It's not about pleasing one side or another on any given day. You know, there are a lot more people now opposed to this war. In the beginning, there was only a few. And Howard Dean was one of the first public figures to oppose it. And we all took a terrible beating when we stood up against it. And now we're being vindicated. So there's a lot of discussion, a lot of debate that has not been touched on yet in this presidential year. And I promise you, you're going to be in for some big surprises.
COOPER: But, Martin, you...
SHEEN: And the war is the key issue.
COOPER: Martin, you say you're not sort of -- you know, that you're just a human and that you're not there to just kind of push people ahead. But that's what you are there for in these coming days, six days to this caucus.
SHEEN: No, but I don't -- well, I'm saying, I don't make the rules that govern these issues or that govern the human heart or the universe. I just try to respond to a human need. I see someone with courage who is trying to make a difference in the public arena. And I join the debate and support them. And that's why I'm here for Howard Dean.
(CROSSTALK)
SHEEN: And that's why I was there for...
COOPER: Do you think, Rob, that there are places that you're more effective in a campaign like this? Are all events events that you think you can bring something to, or are you used selectively?
REINER: Well, Candy referred to the general, which is a lot different, obviously, than primaries. But even in a general, what you look at -- this is no surprise. We know what the battleground states are. There are 15 or 17, depending on how you look at the electoral map. And we're usually used in those very tight races, in those very tight battleground states down the homestretch, very much the way we're used here in Iowa when it's crunch time. Last time, during the 2000 election, Martin and I crisscrossed the country for Al Gore. And we went to all of those places where we could make a difference. You're not going to spend a lot of time and effort campaigning in states that you don't really have a chance to win. But there are those toss-up battleground states where energizing the base, getting the vote out, can make a huge difference.
COOPER: All right, we're going to have to leave it there. Rob Reiner, Martin Sheen and Candy Crowley, all of you, appreciate you joining us tonight. Thanks very much.
REINER: Thank you.
COOPER: Before we leave you, another look at our top story. Paul O'Neill, the former treasury secretary, seemed to back away from some of what he said in a book about his time in the Bush administration. He now says he never meant to suggest President Bush from day one was in a rush to war with Iraq. Tomorrow night on the program, in the wake of the mad cow scare, is enough really being done in the way of safety? Some say the greed of the cattle industry is standing in the way of meaningful reform. Others say not. We'll talk about that.And coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," the architect who designed the World Trade Center memorial, Michael Arad, explains his vision and tells about his final design changes. Will they be enough to end the criticism coming from victims' families? That is tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. Eastern. I'll be on tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Hope you'll join me for that.Good night.
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