Gore Endorses Dean; Chinese Premier Meets With Bush; Dow Hits 10,000
Aired December 9, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone.The Democratic hopefuls were back at it tonight, a debate in New Hampshire. Everything was the same and yet everything seemed different. Today, Al Gore endorsed Howard Dean.It will be a while before we really know how that changed the race if it changed the race but given who Gore is and given where the race stands it remains the political story of the moment and it begins "The Whip" tonight.And "The Whip" begins in New Hampshire at the end of a long day for the candidates and the reporters who cover them, Candy Crowley there for us, Candy a headline from you please.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Al Gore is back and some people are remembering why they like him while others are remembering why they don't.BROWN: Candy thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.To the White House now where the president had enough problems on his hands and a new one to try and head off. Suzanne Malveaux has the duty, Suzanne a headline.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chinese Premiere Wen tonight at a dinner in Washington essentially said that for the two leaders that their contradictions and differences they should put them aside that both sides should just keep cool. President Bush and the premiere met earlier at the White House talking about trade, money and human rights but President Bush made news and headlines when he talked about Taiwan.BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.And next to tiny Goose Creek, South Carolina where a police drug raid at a high school a few weeks back is still reverberating. Gary Tuchman is there for us, Gary a headline.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a class action lawsuit has been filed after that controversial raid at the high school behind me in South Carolina and CNN has acquired some new eye- opening video of the raid with audio -- Aaron.
BROWN: Gary, thank you. We look forward to that. We look forward to getting back to all of you.Also coming up on the program tonight the Dow hits the 10,000 mark again but it's a new world since it went there the first time.Then, reviewing the rights of those who are arrested, is the Miranda warning under assault before the U.S. Supreme Court?And we'll end the night in the usual way, a visit from a rooster who carries with him morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin with Dr. Dean's day which began in Harlem with Mr. Gore and ended in New Hampshire on a stage with his eight opponents in the race for the White House. In between there was an Iowa stop, one day, three states and a changed political landscape.We're joined from New Hampshire tonight by CNN's Candy Crowley. Candy, good evening to you.
CROWLEY: Good evening, quite a day.Interesting that of the two places that they picked Harlem, Al Gore got even more African American votes than Bill Clinton did. As you know, Howard Dean has been having trouble with that particular segment of the voting population so the Dean campaign certainly hoping that they will get a boost there from Al Gore.They also went to Cedar Rapids, a place where there is a huge battle between Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt but in the end this was a two headliner day, one Al Gore, two Howard Dean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): The grassroots campaign of Howard Dean has found itself a big deal rainmaker.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have something like 515,000 people signed up and today we have 515,001.
CROWLEY: And what a one it is. You remember Al Gore, the Democrat's choice in 2000? The two men bonded over opposition to war in Iraq, Gore the cautious insider attracted to Dean's passion.
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only major candidate for the nomination of my party that had the good judgment, experience and good sense to feel and see and articulate the right choice was Howard Dean.
CROWLEY: Dean, the bull in a China shop outsider drawn to Gore's intellect.
DEAN: I have sought his advice on a lot of policy issues. You know someone who has the kind of experience Al Gore has is somebody who has experience that hardly anybody else in the world has.
CROWLEY: From Harlem to the Heartland they were the ultimate political power couple looking to clear the field for the next gain.
GORE: To close ranks as soon as we can behind a nominee, I've given you my recommendation for who that ought to be.
CROWLEY: Just one problem, actually eight problems.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This race is not over until the votes have been cast and counted.
CROWLEY: At their umpteenth debate, this one in Durham, New Hampshire, the other candidates, all of whom would have loved the Gore endorsement downplayed its significance.And Joe Lieberman, you remember Joe Lieberman the man Al Gore picked as his running mate, says not being picked this time may be just the ticket.
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In a somewhat unpredicted, unexpected way my chances have actually increased today. I can tell you that our phones have been ringing off the hook at the campaign headquarters. I've been stopped in the airports, people angry about what happened.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: And you are right, Aaron. Nobody knows in the long term what, if anything, this Gore endorsement will do for Dean. We do know that in the short term it gave Howard Dean about a day and a half of really positive headlines -- Aaron.
BROWN: We'll see how many more days it goes. Thank you, Candy, Candy Crowley in New Hampshire. Al Gore's running mate, Senator Joe Lieberman said today that he finally got a call from Mr. Gore, four or five minutes he said and then he added it came too late.At a political level it was clearly an endorsement Senator Lieberman would have liked. On a personal level we can only guess. As you will hear and as you just heard the Senator was on message. We talked to him a short time after the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Probably for the tenth time today, maybe the 100th time today, could you give me any detail on what Mr. Gore said to you in your brief phone call?
LIEBERMAN: No. I always keep those conversations private. We finally hooked up this morning. I'm glad we did. I was surprised by his decision both because I heard about it on the media.But also because in supporting Howard Dean he's supporting somebody who is standing against so much that the Clinton-Gore administration stood for, lowering middle class taxes, breaking down protectionism barriers, strength on security. Howard Dean is on the opposite side of all of those so it was a surprising endorsement but we'll go forward. I'm more determined than ever to keep up the fight for what I believe is right.
BROWN: Senator, does it make it in any way harder to make an argument that you've been making, which is that the only winning platform for the Democrats has to come from the center of the Democratic Party?
LIEBERMAN: That's a very important question and, in fact, Al's endorsement of Howard Dean refocuses me on exactly that point. If you can allow me to say so, Howard Dean and now Al Gore have said they want to take the country back. I want to move it forward. I want to move or party forward. I don't want to go back to the vision of the Democratic Party that existed before Bill Clinton when we didn't get elected to the Oval Office very often, which was that we were big taxers, that we were not strong on security and that we were nowhere near the mainstream on values.
And, we're not going to do what we all want to do in this election, which is to deny George Bush a second term so we can make the lives of the American people better in education, health care, retirement, security and all the rest if we follow the Dean prescription.
BROWN: Would you say that the task is more complicated now that someone of Mr. Gore's recognition and stature, if you will, has come out in support of Dr. Dean?
LIEBERMAN: Well, I have a surprising answer for you and I wouldn't have predicted it. There's been a remarkable reaction to the Gore endorsement in my favor. Our phone lines, our Web site are jammed with people wanting to help. We raised more money in my campaign in the last 24 hours than on any day in this quarter and I'm encouraged by it.Look, pundits, pollsters and political endorsements don't decide elections. The voters do, particularly in places here in New Hampshire and I was very grateful when John Kerry talked about his surprise that Al Gore had done this and talked about my own loyalty to Al. There was a very strong round of applause from this New Hampshire audience. I'm encouraged by it. We're going to build on it.
BROWN: Are you angry?
LIEBERMAN: Well, you know, I'm determined. I mean I'm going to reserve my anger for what George Bush has done to America and unite this party around a kind of strong on security, pro-jobs, socially progressive platform and plans that I've been running on. It's all about going forward and winning so we can make the future of our country better and safer.
BROWN: Senator, we always appreciate your time especially so tonight. It's good to see you, sir. Thank you very much.
LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Aaron. You have a good night. Take care.BROWN: Thank you, sir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator Joe Lieberman just a few moments after the debate in New Hampshire and a few moments ago.We've delighted in the last 24 hours or so in the theories of the Gore endorsement. Apparently, nothing is as simple as he just prefers Howard Dean. It has to be something else. It's a Clinton-Gore feud. It has something to do with Hillary Rodham Clinton. It shows that Mr. Gore has left his roots at the center of his party and turned left to run again in '08. Take your pick.We tend to think for the moment at least that all that really matters is will it help Dr. Dean and, if so, how much? History provides some help there, though not a lot. Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
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JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): If you're a Democratic presidential candidate and your name isn't Howard Dean, you'd be saying something like this today.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Endorsements don't win elections. It's not about the powerful. It's about the people.
GREENFIELD (on camera): So, the obvious question, do these endorsements mean very much? Well, the fact is it all depends on who is doing the endorsing and where and when.(voice-over):
When Senator Edmund Muskie ran for president in 1972 he was the consensus choice of just about every Democratic insider. The problem was the Democrats had turned the business of choosing delegates over to primary voters and George McGovern's anti- war crusade had the energy. Muskie was out of the race by spring.
But there was a different lesson about endorsements in 1976 when Ronald Reagan tried to wrest the Republican nomination away from President Ford. One of the few officials to back Reagan that year was North Carolina Senator Jesse Helms. After Reagan lost a string of early primaries, Helms' backing helped Reagan win in North Carolina and restart his nearly successful challenge.
Or consider Jimmy Carter's long shot bid that same year. The ex- Georgia governor's southern roots might have given him problems with liberals but for strong support from Georgia blacks like Andrew Young and Martin Luther King, Sr. Both stood by him after some unfortunate comments about preserving ethnic purity. Or look at Walter Mondale in 1984. His strong support from Democratic Party insiders didn't save him from getting clobbered by Gary Hart in New Hampshire. What did save him were two later primary victories in Alabama, with the backing of Birmingham Mayor Richard Arrington, and in Georgia with the support of Andrew Young.In 2000, Governor George Bush became the clear favorite after a stream of Republican office holders had traveled to Texas to urge him to run.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: On to victory my friends.
GREENFIELD: And when Senator John McCain emerged as his chief rival it turned out that only four of McCain's Senate Republican colleagues endorsed him. That did not help his battle to lead his party.Now here's a rare case of an endorsement that actually backfired. In 1994, Rudy Giuliani, the Republican Mayor of New York City, broke party ranks to back Democratic Governor Mario Cuomo for reelection. The problem, over the next few days a rural and suburban backlash emerged against this big city political ploy and on Election Day it was rural and suburban voters who put George Pataki into the governor's chair.(on camera): But if you're looking for really significant political endorsements wait until the fall and see if any high level Republicans bolt the party to back the Democratic nominee or prominent Democrats decide to endorse President Bush. There are a few political events more damaging than repudiation at the hands of one of your own.Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: If anyone understands politics, strategy and Al Gore's influence on both of it, it's Tony Coelho. He was Mr. Gore's campaign chairman for part of the 2000 run, one of the most astute readers of Democratic tea leaves we know and he joins us tonight from Washington, good to see you.
TONY COELHO, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you, Aaron.BROWN: Tell me how much the earth shifted politically today.
COELHO: Well, it made Dean the only person who can beat Dean. It's his to lose now. What he needed was, he has grassroots, he has money, he has organization, he has the fire out there right now and what he got today was a blessing from a major insider that said to a lot of people this guy's OK. Watch now, Aaron, in the next couple of weeks. I think you'll get governor's endorsements and other people start to move. That was sort of a check mark today. It was significant.
BROWN: Of the others, anyone come out of this less damaged?
COELHO: Well, I think that it will be interesting to watch Dick Gephardt in Iowa as to whether or not the industrial unions and Hoffa really take on the service unions and try to convince the labor movement that they still have much more influence than the service unions. So, I'd watch the Gephardt race in Iowa because of that. I'm told by some people in Iowa today that a lot of people who were undecided signed up with Dean, so that's going to be an interesting one.I think New Hampshire there's not much going on there. I think it's really Dean's to, you know, be embarrassed by if he doesn't win it in a landslide. But this is an important race right now. I think that Kerry's really damaged. I think that Lieberman sounded a little whiny today and so we'll see what happens with Clark and Edwards and Gephardt. That's where it sort of comes down to.
BROWN: Now, let's talk motivation because this is the other thing that I think is tantalizing in all of this. Do you buy into the notion that there is some Gore-Clinton Feud at play here?
COELHO: Well, you can be Shakespearian and say there's something going on. I think to a great extent what really is going on here is that when I talked to Gore about five or six months ago he wanted to wait until the month of December. He was going to talk to all the candidates.
He was going to endorse. He didn't care who endorsed or didn't endorse, if Clinton endorsed before him. That was not going to be an issue and so forth. This was when he decided he was going to and he's talked to a lot of them.Dean really did a lot of outreach. Dean really called him a lot and sought his advice but I think that this was according to Gore's plan. He really is hurt by some of the things that Bush is doing. He doesn't like the direction the country on -- where we are on foreign policy. He doesn't like what's going on on basic civil liberties and so forth and there's a lot of things that he thinks are wrong.
He didn't run because he thought the election would be about him and about the past and he wanted to move on and so I think there's a lot going on here about Al Gore and his concern about where the country is and I don't think the Clintons really play much of a role.They obviously, you know, there is that little thing in there but I don't really think it's that much of a significant thing. This is really about Howard Dean and how he was able to convince Al Gore to be supportive. It's an interesting study in the way Dean handled this and how surprising this guy is and the successes that he's had over the last six months. It has surprised every political pundit just how successful this guy is.
BROWN: Just as briefly as you're able, obviously it helps Governor Dean get to the nomination. Does it in any way help him get elected?
COELHO: Well, I think that the more that he shows that he's broader based, that he's supported by a broad range of people in the party it will help. I think also if we get this over with sooner rather than later he can then concentrate on the fight for the White House because we know, everybody knows that the White House is coming after him now.They're going to try to paint him into a corner as someone out of step with the rest of the American public, so he needs to get on to the real fight and look from everything I can see Howard Dean is prepared to fight and will be a fighter. He likes being in your face.
BROWN: He does seem to like that part.
COELHO: Yes.
BROWN: Good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on with us tonight.
COELHO: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you, sir.One more political note before we go to break, a sad one. Former Illinois Senator Paul Simon died today in Springfield, a day after undergoing open heart surgery. Simon, who was best known for his signature bow ties, served in the Senate from '85 to '97 after a long career in Illinois state politics. He made, you might recall, a brief run for the White House in 1988 but dropped out after winning only his own state's primary. Senator Paul Simon was 75.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a new problem for the White House trying to play peacemaker between China and Taiwan.And later, the school drug raid that continues to reverberate through a South Carolina town.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The producers of this program tell me that one of the rules of management is that if you ignore most problems they eventually go away. Unfortunately for George W. Bush that rule is trumped by the fact that there are some problems you simply can't ignore.Case in point the escalating tension between China and Taiwan, this is an especially sticky problem because the United States finds itself having to tell a natural ally, the government of Taiwan, a democracy if an imperfect one, to back off and not make trouble for those communists who run the mainland.Here again White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush welcome China's Premiere Wen Jiabao to the White House with all the fanfare accorded an important U.S. ally. The two leaders reiterated the strength of U.S.- China relations and their shared commitment to block Taiwan from breaking away from mainland China.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We oppose any unilateral decision by either China or Taiwan to change the status quo.
MALVEAUX: It was the Bush administration's strongest statement to date against the movement for an independent Taiwan, welcomed by Wen.
WEN JIABAO, PREMIERE OF CHINA (through translator): Such separatist activities are what the Chinese side can absolutely not accept and tolerate.
MALVEAUX: Recently, Taiwan's President Chen Sui-Bian announced a March referendum calling for China to withdraw its ballistic missiles aimed at the island and to renounce the use of force. It was viewed by China as a provocative move and has worried the U.S. that Taiwan may be preparing for a showdown with China.
RICHARD BUSH, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Over the last few weeks it has urged Taiwan in more explicit terms to sort of cool it.
MALVEAUX: The complex U.S. policy towards Taiwan presents Mr. Bush with a difficult balancing act. The U.S. is bound by law under it's one China policy to defend Taiwan if China invades.Bush raised eyebrows early on by promising to defend Taiwan and there is strong support among conservatives for that but Mr. Bush wants most of all to head off a political crisis in Asia. Some view the U.S. stand on Taiwan as inconsistent with its policy in promoting other democracies around the world.R.
BUSH: I don't think it's a reward. I think it does reflect the importance that China plays in U.S. foreign policy now.
MALVEAUX: China plays several important roles for the U.S. now including facilitating talks with North Korea to disarm and assisting in the U.S. war on terror. But critics say the Bush administration could be going too far in its support of Beijing in controlling Taiwan.
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: I understand the inclination to want to bend over backwards to please China. Pleasing shouldn't be appeasing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now Bush aides say it's not about appeasing China but rather making sure Asia remains stable, a big part of that keeping North Korea nuclear free and China has the influence to make that happen -- Aaron.
BROWN: Suzanne thank you, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.A couple more stories around the world before we go to break tonight, beginning with another bloody day in Iraq after attacks by two suicide bombers at two U.S. bases there. More than 60 soldiers were hurt in the two attacks...
(AUDIO GAP)
...that exploded in the northern city of Telafar.In Moscow today a female suicide bomber detonated a belt filled with explosives just across the street from the Russian Parliament Building. Six people died, 13 wounded in front of the Landmark National Hotel. The blast happened just before a meeting between Russian President Putin and regional leaders at the Kremlin.And Buckingham Palace has announced that Queen Elizabeth will have knee surgery on Friday. Oh, my goodness. The operation will remove torn cartilage from the royal left knee, a procedure similar to the one she had on the royal right knee back in January. You cannot say we don't cover all the news.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT crossing the 10,000 mark, more than four years after it made it there the first time the Dow climbs back but the world has changed.This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
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BROWN: There was a moment today when we realized how much has changed in our world lately. This morning the Dow Jones Industrials crossed briefly above 10,000, something it first did four and a half years ago.Remember the economy and the world back then, the Internet, the boom times, IPOs, everyone getting rich? Mutual funds, they were honest. It all seemed so hopeful, so unstoppable and then it all came crashing down, a little greed here, a little deception there, a lot of terror everywhere. The world today is so very different than it was that March day in 1999. Here's CNN's Senior Financial Correspondent Allan Chernoff.
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ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Been there, done that, when the big board displayed 10,000 for the Dow Jones Industrial Average today there was a moment of applause then back to work, none of the euphoria that greeted Dow 10,000 the first time on March 16, 1999.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's getting noisy on this floor. There it is. And there's your reaction.
CHERNOFF: Technical analyst Ralph Acampora was cheering with a balloon which turned out to be highly symbolic.
RALPH ACAMPORA: This is America. This is the strength. This is blue chips. This is beautiful. There's nothing irrational about any of this.
CHERNOFF: But Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan argued it was, labeling the Bull rally irrational exuberance.Rational or not exuberance filled the New York Stock Exchange when the Dow actually closed above 10,000 nine trading sessions later. Exchange Chairman Richard Grasso tossed down 10,000 caps to cheering traders and bullish forecasters predicted the market would keep on soaring. It did but only until the following January. In the nearly three years since the Dow topped out at 11722, Wall Street and corporate America have been shaken. The attacks of 9/11 shuddered New York's financial community. The ensuing recession put millions out of work. Accounting scandals engulfed darlings of the bull market, Enron, WorldCom, Tyco, the top executives under investigation, indicted, or on trial. The financials upon which investors had bet their money in fact had been made up. As stocks sank, investors lost $8.5 trillion of paper wealth. Exchange Chairman Grasso was booted after his $140 million pay package became public.
ALFRED GOLDMAN, CHIEF MARKET STRATEGIST, A.G. EDWARDS: Wall Street today has gone through an aging process, a grain of Wall Street. So investors today are more skeptical, a bit more jaundiced. And their optimism is contained.
CHERNOFF (on camera): Wall Street is sobered and relieved to see the Dow climbing back to 10000, even if only for two minutes today. The industrials closed down 52 points. Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That, it seems, was about the only thing that played out today in the same way as it did in March of '99. The Dow fell back, closing below 10000, as Allan said. Last time, it took two more weeks for it to end a trading day above 10000. We'll see what happens this time and where it goes after that. Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: whittling away rights or making it easier to catch the bad guys? The Supreme Court and Miranda when we return.Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Nearly 40 years ago, when the U.S. Supreme Court first ruled that suspects had to be advised of their right to remain silent and their right to an attorney, lots of police chiefs in the country said the end was near, that it would never work; 40 years later, no smart cop says that. And many believe Miranda has actually made policing better, not harder. But today, before the Supreme Court, the question again was Miranda and how, if at all, police can do an end-around to get a confession.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): They're familiar words to anyone who has ever watched a cop show on TV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have the right to remain silent.BROWN: For almost 40 years, police have been required to tell those accused that they have the right to remain silent, the right to a lawyer, that anything they say can and will be used against them. And if those rights aren't read, the confession, the evidence, could well be thrown out. But those protections under legal challenge in recent years, the Bush administration arguing, police need greater flexibility.
BERNARD PARKS, FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE CHIEF: There always are going to be circumstances, unique circumstance that have never happened before. And you have to realize, officers often are reacting to spontaneous movement and statements by suspects. BROWN: The Supreme Court has had to deal with new questions about Miranda some 50 times since its original ruling. And the justices are again. In Colorado, a suspect twice waived off police attempts to read him his rights, then told officers where to find an illegal gun in his bedroom. The question, must Miranda rights always be read? Justice Sandra Day O'Connor asking, "It hasn't resulted in disaster, has it?"In a second case, a more complicated case, a common police strategy was used on a murder suspect in Missouri.
RON KUBY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What the police did was, they did a dry run with the suspect without Mirandizing the suspect, without giving her her rights. And then, after they elicited a confession, then they went back and did it the right way. I think the court is going to say, that's inadmissible as evidence.
BROWN: Justice Souter calling it a strong recipe for ignoring Miranda. Some legal experts see the court laying the legal groundwork for a broader examination of suspects' rights in a new age of domestic terror.
THOMAS GOLDSTEIN, SUPREME COURT APPELLATE ATTORNEY: The government is saying, look, you've got to give us flexibility, because we're involved in a lot of incredibly important investigations right now. And if you clamp down too hard, it is going to interfere with our attempt to stop terrorism.
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BROWN: Matt Mangino is the district attorney in Lawrence County, Pennsylvania; with us in New York, Robert Tarver, a legal analyst for NorthStarNetwork.com. Good to see you both.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Matt, let me start with you. I just want to focus on the Missouri case, because it is the richer of the cases, if you will. The issues are more interesting, I think. Why not simply have a rule that says, this simply, nothing you get before you read them the rights counts?
MATT MANGINO, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, essentially, that's what the rule is if the person is involved in a custodial interrogation. They have to be someone who's been arrested or has been detained, their freedom has been limited. And they're subject to interrogation. Once that begins, it's true. Anything that is taken from that point, and they're not Mirandized, they've not been read their rights, is excluded, and should be excluded.
BROWN: The woman in Pennsylvania -- in Missouri, rather -- was subjected to sophisticated police interrogation techniques prior to the point she was Mirandized. Why is that fair?
MANGINO: I have concerns about that Missouri case. And I think it was referred to earlier as a common practice. And I don't necessarily believe that that's a common practice that's being used by detectives across the country. In that situation, to rehearse a statement before you Mirandize somebody, I think there are certainly some concerns about that. But what we don't want to do is, we don't want to handcuff -- no pun intended -- the police and inhibit their ability to conduct investigations and do those in a proper manner, in which people have been apprised of their rights. BROWN: Let me come back to the question of handcuffing in a moment. Let me turn to Mr. Tarver for a second. Do you see -- the court, what, three years ago reaffirmed Miranda , I think, 7-2
.ROBERT TARVER, LEGAL ANALYST, THENORTHSTARNETWORK.COM: That's right, in a case called Dickerson.
BROWN: So what is your worst fear here?
TARVER: Well, the worst fear that is that they'll begin to tinker and begin to carve out certain exceptions to the Miranda rule. And the problem with carving out exceptions is, once you start down that so-called slippery slope, where are you going to stop? Right now, we have got a great bright-line rule. The rule says, you read them the five sentences. They then talk. And if you don't read it to them, well, then, you cannot admit the evidence that follows from that. That's very easy to deal with. The idea that police are being handcuffed, I find very, very difficult to comprehend, because the fact of the matter is, once you do that thing, then whatever follows
(AUDIO GAP)
MANGINO: Let's take a look first at the exclusionary rule. What the exclusionary rule does is, it's essentially the death penalty for evidence. If you find that someone hasn't been read their rights, they're haven't been apprised of their rights, that evidence can't be used against them. So, a defendant who essentially has confessed to a crime, whether it be murder, rape, robbery, can essentially walk because of the exclusionary rule. What we don't want to do is, we don't want to put police in a position where they don't know what they can do or what they can't do. As Justice Breyer said today, we can't expect police officers to be lawyers. And so we need to make sure that the rules are such they can certainly comply with them under sometimes what are very adverse conditions, situations that move very quickly.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: In the corner of my eye, I saw you nodding.
TARVER: Here's what it actually does. In saying that evidence is going to be thrown out when you don't follow the law, it encourages police and other officials to follow the law, because they know, if they don't do the right thing, well, then, the whole case is going to go down. The problem is that we in the criminal justice system and I think people who look at it from the outside, on a reactionary fashion, tend to put the burden on the wrong party.We put the burden on the so-called suspect, when the bottom line is to encourage police to do the right thing. If we do that, then we don't have to worry about these cases being thrown out left and right.
BROWN: Matt, if you could write these decisions and write the laws here, where would the wiggle room, if you will, be?
MANGINO: Well, let's look at the cases at hand.The Colorado case, for instance, this is an individual who was begun to be provided his rights, and then said, "I know them."
BROWN: Yes.
MANGINO: Yet the court now throws that case out, throws the evidence out in that case because he wasn't Mirandized? That's kind of ridiculous. Someone who says, "I know what my rights are," you still have to go through the formality of telling them what they are again?
BROWN: Yes.
TARVER: That's concern. That, I think, puts police officers at a disadvantage. In the Missouri case, what we also want to make clear is that somebody can make a voluntary statement, a confession, prior to being Mirandized and that confession can be used. It's only in situations where someone is in a custodial interrogation, where they're being detained, where their freedom has been limited, they can't leave, and they're interrogated without being informed of their rights. BROWN: Rob, we'll give you the last word here. Do you expect this court to give police a little more wiggle room than they currently have?
TARVER: Not necessarily. You still have a number of members there from the Dickerson decision in 2000, particularly Sandra Day O'Connor, who is strong on this, and David Souter, who is a former prosecutor and attorney general himself. I think he is going to hold out and probably be the strength of the court moving the decision forward.
BROWN: Good to have both of you. We appreciate not getting too caught up in the jargon of it all, so that our nonlawyers here, me, could understand it.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: another question of rights, this time what's at stake when police raid a local high school, big time, looking for drugs. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We were struck when we read a quote today from one of the students caught in a drug sweep at her South Carolina high school last month. She said, when she saw the officers coming towards her with guns drawn, yelling to get down, she thought Columbine. "Someone crazy must be in the school. They're trying to protect us," she said. Except, that's not what the guns and the dogs and the handcuffs were for; 107 students were searched. Two-thirds of them were black in a school where more than three-quarters of the student body is white. There's been lots of fallout, as you might imagine. Here's CNN Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands on your head. Do you understand? Do not move.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what happened at a South Carolina high school before the first bell rang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody move. Do you understand? Hands on your head.
TUCHMAN: With some of their guns taken out of their holsters, police in Goose Creek, South Carolina, conducted the Stratford High School looking for drugs. When this happened last month, authorities released this jumpy video from this security camera with no video. But CNN has acquired higher-quality video, with the audio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands on your head now.
TUCHMAN: One hundred and seven students were detained, some with guns pointing at them, some with handcuffs, all told not to move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think this is funny? I don't want to hear no talking.
TUCHMAN: Many of the students cowered as the police dogs were brought in. When it was all over, no drugs were found. And now attorneys from seven different law firms are filing a class-action lawsuit, saying innocent students' rights were violated. The lawyers provided us this video after they say they requested it from police.
MARLON KIMPSON, PLAINTIFF ATTORNEY: What we saw on November 5 flashed across the television all across the nation were commando- style tactics that should be used in Baghdad, not in Goose Creek.
TUCHMAN: We met with attorneys and some of the families filing suit. They say, despite a high percentage of African-American students being detained, it's not a racial issue, just a rights issue. Danielle Fludd is a sophomore.
DANIELLE FLUDD, STUDENT: And I walked in the hallway, and this cop pointed a gun at me and told me to get down on the ground.
TUCHMAN (on camera): And what were you thinking?
FLUDD: I was shocked. I was dumbfounded. I didn't know what to think.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): So is Jake Lewis, the father of a 17-year- old at the school.
JAKE LEWIS, FATHER: After I viewed that video and I saw how they had abused those kids at that particular time, I told them that, there was no way on this planet I was going to allow you to get away with this.
TUCHMAN: Police said last month they had the school's permission to conduct the raid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Due to the fact that the police department had positive knowledge of the drug activity, the decision was made to enter the building in a tactical manner.
TUCHMAN: The suit targets the school district, the police department, and the city, as well as individuals. The school district did not want to comment on camera about the lawsuit. But spokeswoman Pam Bailey did tell CNN off-camera to let the process work, adding, "We have to let the facts speak for themselves."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: The school district does tell us it was served with the legal papers today. The lawsuit does ask for money -- not specific how much money they are asking for. We can tell you, this is not just a story of civil action. The county prosecutor is conducting an investigation of those who conducted the raid -- Aaron, back to you.
BROWN: Just on the civil suit for a second, what is it that they allege they should receive compensation for?
TUCHMAN: They are saying that their rights were violated, that the Fourth Amendment and the 14th Amendment, which have to do with their rights, were violated in a manner that should not be acceptable. Because they go to school and just because they're students, they say the authorities are not entitled to frisk them, to scare them, to point rifles at them.
BROWN: Gary, thank you. And every time we see the tape, it does get your attention. Thank you very much, Gary Tuchman. A few other items making news around the country today. In North Dakota, authorities say they have found blood of the missing student, Dru Sjodin, in the car of the man accused of kidnapping her. They say they have also discovered a knife in the car and Ms. Sjodin's shoe under a bridge. The sheriff said today he does not expect to find Dru Sjodin alive. In Rhode Island, a grand jury has charged the owners of a nightclub and the man who lit a pyrotechnic display in it with involuntary manslaughter. The display ignited a fire which you'll recall killed 100 people last February. The state's attorney general said the owners, who are brothers, failed to maintain a safe building. And, in Boston, more financial scrambling for the Catholic Archdiocese, which has now mortgaged its cathedral and seminary to secure back loans to pay for a $90 million settlement for the sex abuse that went on there. The money it expects to get from selling a mansion and other assets will not be available in time. When we come back, morning papers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Oh, man, so many newspapers, so little time. Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. Just doing a little housekeeping as we go here, in no particular order, because that's how they came to me. We'll start with "The Oregonian" out there in Portland, Oregon. Again, a kind of feature story on the front page, hard feature, "A Place Where Children Die," the fourth of a five-part series that the paper has run. And "Taking the Dry Road. In Not Deciding to Drink, a Warm Springs Teens Loses Friends, But Finds a Mentor Who Beat Alcoholism and Immerses Him in Tribal Culture." That's a pretty cool story and a very nice picture on the front page of "The Oregonian." "The Richmond Times-Dispatch" in Richmond, Virginia. I love this headline. "Shaken and Stirred"; 4.5 quakes seems to have caused just excitement and no major damage. That's the lead story in the paper. I'm just checking to see if there's anything else that I like. I guess you figured that out. "The Boston Herald" in Boston, Massachusetts. By the way, they have a picture of Michael Jackson, I believe that's the mug shot, the Khalid Shaikh Mohammed shot, as I think of it. "Not Enough: Brothers Face 200 Other Charges. Kin Want Others." This is the Rhode Island nightclub fire that we told you about just a moment ago. That's "The Boston Herald." They also put Howard Dean on the front page. "Lagging Dem Foes Lash Out at Dean" the headline there.I don't believe we've done "The Dayton Daily News" before in Dayton, Ohio. I was there just a month or so ago. "Flu Cases, Shot Requests Continue to Soar." So the flu makes the front page. "Children Says" -- I guess that's a hospital -- "Says 450 Ill Kids in the Past Two Weeks." That's pretty nasty, isn't it? Yes, that's "The Dayton Daily News." We appreciate their sending us the paper. Down the road, I guess it would be, in Cincinnati, "The Cincinnati Enquirer." "State OKs 350 Million to Fix I-75." So they have got a road story there. "Age of Users A Factor, County Coroner Says. Death By Cocaine Toll Soars in Butler County, Ohio." A nice story on the front page of that paper.How we doing on time, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five.
BROWN: How much?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-four.
BROWN: Oh, my goodness. "The Miami Herald" here. "Army Chaplain's Hearing Delayed For Review of Data." This is the James Yee court-martial that is going on. I have so many questions about that, I can't even begin to get into it, except, how do you decide, in an adultery case, who you give immunity to?"The Chicago Sun-Times." "People First Trusted and, Second, Genuinely Loved Him," Senator Paul Simon, who, as we told you, died earlier today. The weather tomorrow in Chicago, "City Slicker." I don't know. You figure it out. We'll update the day's top story and preview tomorrow after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Top story tonight: Democratic presidential hopefuls in debate in New Hampshire, the event dominated by the news earlier in the day that former Vice President Al Gore had endorsed Howard Dean. Gore said Mr. Dean had done the best job of igniting enthusiasm at the grassroots level. Tomorrow, right now here on this program, a story we held off today because of the press of news, another in our still photography pieces, this time a rare look inside two hospitals in Baghdad. That's NEWSNIGHT tomorrow.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.Good night for all of us.
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Aired December 9, 2003 - 22:00 ET
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AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone.The Democratic hopefuls were back at it tonight, a debate in New Hampshire. Everything was the same and yet everything seemed different. Today, Al Gore endorsed Howard Dean.It will be a while before we really know how that changed the race if it changed the race but given who Gore is and given where the race stands it remains the political story of the moment and it begins "The Whip" tonight.And "The Whip" begins in New Hampshire at the end of a long day for the candidates and the reporters who cover them, Candy Crowley there for us, Candy a headline from you please.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Al Gore is back and some people are remembering why they like him while others are remembering why they don't.BROWN: Candy thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.To the White House now where the president had enough problems on his hands and a new one to try and head off. Suzanne Malveaux has the duty, Suzanne a headline.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chinese Premiere Wen tonight at a dinner in Washington essentially said that for the two leaders that their contradictions and differences they should put them aside that both sides should just keep cool. President Bush and the premiere met earlier at the White House talking about trade, money and human rights but President Bush made news and headlines when he talked about Taiwan.BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.And next to tiny Goose Creek, South Carolina where a police drug raid at a high school a few weeks back is still reverberating. Gary Tuchman is there for us, Gary a headline.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a class action lawsuit has been filed after that controversial raid at the high school behind me in South Carolina and CNN has acquired some new eye- opening video of the raid with audio -- Aaron.
BROWN: Gary, thank you. We look forward to that. We look forward to getting back to all of you.Also coming up on the program tonight the Dow hits the 10,000 mark again but it's a new world since it went there the first time.Then, reviewing the rights of those who are arrested, is the Miranda warning under assault before the U.S. Supreme Court?And we'll end the night in the usual way, a visit from a rooster who carries with him morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin with Dr. Dean's day which began in Harlem with Mr. Gore and ended in New Hampshire on a stage with his eight opponents in the race for the White House. In between there was an Iowa stop, one day, three states and a changed political landscape.We're joined from New Hampshire tonight by CNN's Candy Crowley. Candy, good evening to you.
CROWLEY: Good evening, quite a day.Interesting that of the two places that they picked Harlem, Al Gore got even more African American votes than Bill Clinton did. As you know, Howard Dean has been having trouble with that particular segment of the voting population so the Dean campaign certainly hoping that they will get a boost there from Al Gore.They also went to Cedar Rapids, a place where there is a huge battle between Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt but in the end this was a two headliner day, one Al Gore, two Howard Dean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): The grassroots campaign of Howard Dean has found itself a big deal rainmaker.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have something like 515,000 people signed up and today we have 515,001.
CROWLEY: And what a one it is. You remember Al Gore, the Democrat's choice in 2000? The two men bonded over opposition to war in Iraq, Gore the cautious insider attracted to Dean's passion.
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The only major candidate for the nomination of my party that had the good judgment, experience and good sense to feel and see and articulate the right choice was Howard Dean.
CROWLEY: Dean, the bull in a China shop outsider drawn to Gore's intellect.
DEAN: I have sought his advice on a lot of policy issues. You know someone who has the kind of experience Al Gore has is somebody who has experience that hardly anybody else in the world has.
CROWLEY: From Harlem to the Heartland they were the ultimate political power couple looking to clear the field for the next gain.
GORE: To close ranks as soon as we can behind a nominee, I've given you my recommendation for who that ought to be.
CROWLEY: Just one problem, actually eight problems.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This race is not over until the votes have been cast and counted.
CROWLEY: At their umpteenth debate, this one in Durham, New Hampshire, the other candidates, all of whom would have loved the Gore endorsement downplayed its significance.And Joe Lieberman, you remember Joe Lieberman the man Al Gore picked as his running mate, says not being picked this time may be just the ticket.
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In a somewhat unpredicted, unexpected way my chances have actually increased today. I can tell you that our phones have been ringing off the hook at the campaign headquarters. I've been stopped in the airports, people angry about what happened.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: And you are right, Aaron. Nobody knows in the long term what, if anything, this Gore endorsement will do for Dean. We do know that in the short term it gave Howard Dean about a day and a half of really positive headlines -- Aaron.
BROWN: We'll see how many more days it goes. Thank you, Candy, Candy Crowley in New Hampshire. Al Gore's running mate, Senator Joe Lieberman said today that he finally got a call from Mr. Gore, four or five minutes he said and then he added it came too late.At a political level it was clearly an endorsement Senator Lieberman would have liked. On a personal level we can only guess. As you will hear and as you just heard the Senator was on message. We talked to him a short time after the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Probably for the tenth time today, maybe the 100th time today, could you give me any detail on what Mr. Gore said to you in your brief phone call?
LIEBERMAN: No. I always keep those conversations private. We finally hooked up this morning. I'm glad we did. I was surprised by his decision both because I heard about it on the media.But also because in supporting Howard Dean he's supporting somebody who is standing against so much that the Clinton-Gore administration stood for, lowering middle class taxes, breaking down protectionism barriers, strength on security. Howard Dean is on the opposite side of all of those so it was a surprising endorsement but we'll go forward. I'm more determined than ever to keep up the fight for what I believe is right.
BROWN: Senator, does it make it in any way harder to make an argument that you've been making, which is that the only winning platform for the Democrats has to come from the center of the Democratic Party?
LIEBERMAN: That's a very important question and, in fact, Al's endorsement of Howard Dean refocuses me on exactly that point. If you can allow me to say so, Howard Dean and now Al Gore have said they want to take the country back. I want to move it forward. I want to move or party forward. I don't want to go back to the vision of the Democratic Party that existed before Bill Clinton when we didn't get elected to the Oval Office very often, which was that we were big taxers, that we were not strong on security and that we were nowhere near the mainstream on values.
And, we're not going to do what we all want to do in this election, which is to deny George Bush a second term so we can make the lives of the American people better in education, health care, retirement, security and all the rest if we follow the Dean prescription.
BROWN: Would you say that the task is more complicated now that someone of Mr. Gore's recognition and stature, if you will, has come out in support of Dr. Dean?
LIEBERMAN: Well, I have a surprising answer for you and I wouldn't have predicted it. There's been a remarkable reaction to the Gore endorsement in my favor. Our phone lines, our Web site are jammed with people wanting to help. We raised more money in my campaign in the last 24 hours than on any day in this quarter and I'm encouraged by it.Look, pundits, pollsters and political endorsements don't decide elections. The voters do, particularly in places here in New Hampshire and I was very grateful when John Kerry talked about his surprise that Al Gore had done this and talked about my own loyalty to Al. There was a very strong round of applause from this New Hampshire audience. I'm encouraged by it. We're going to build on it.
BROWN: Are you angry?
LIEBERMAN: Well, you know, I'm determined. I mean I'm going to reserve my anger for what George Bush has done to America and unite this party around a kind of strong on security, pro-jobs, socially progressive platform and plans that I've been running on. It's all about going forward and winning so we can make the future of our country better and safer.
BROWN: Senator, we always appreciate your time especially so tonight. It's good to see you, sir. Thank you very much.
LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Aaron. You have a good night. Take care.BROWN: Thank you, sir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator Joe Lieberman just a few moments after the debate in New Hampshire and a few moments ago.We've delighted in the last 24 hours or so in the theories of the Gore endorsement. Apparently, nothing is as simple as he just prefers Howard Dean. It has to be something else. It's a Clinton-Gore feud. It has something to do with Hillary Rodham Clinton. It shows that Mr. Gore has left his roots at the center of his party and turned left to run again in '08. Take your pick.We tend to think for the moment at least that all that really matters is will it help Dr. Dean and, if so, how much? History provides some help there, though not a lot. Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): If you're a Democratic presidential candidate and your name isn't Howard Dean, you'd be saying something like this today.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Endorsements don't win elections. It's not about the powerful. It's about the people.
GREENFIELD (on camera): So, the obvious question, do these endorsements mean very much? Well, the fact is it all depends on who is doing the endorsing and where and when.(voice-over):
When Senator Edmund Muskie ran for president in 1972 he was the consensus choice of just about every Democratic insider. The problem was the Democrats had turned the business of choosing delegates over to primary voters and George McGovern's anti- war crusade had the energy. Muskie was out of the race by spring.
But there was a different lesson about endorsements in 1976 when Ronald Reagan tried to wrest the Republican nomination away from President Ford. One of the few officials to back Reagan that year was North Carolina Senator Jesse Helms. After Reagan lost a string of early primaries, Helms' backing helped Reagan win in North Carolina and restart his nearly successful challenge.
Or consider Jimmy Carter's long shot bid that same year. The ex- Georgia governor's southern roots might have given him problems with liberals but for strong support from Georgia blacks like Andrew Young and Martin Luther King, Sr. Both stood by him after some unfortunate comments about preserving ethnic purity. Or look at Walter Mondale in 1984. His strong support from Democratic Party insiders didn't save him from getting clobbered by Gary Hart in New Hampshire. What did save him were two later primary victories in Alabama, with the backing of Birmingham Mayor Richard Arrington, and in Georgia with the support of Andrew Young.In 2000, Governor George Bush became the clear favorite after a stream of Republican office holders had traveled to Texas to urge him to run.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: On to victory my friends.
GREENFIELD: And when Senator John McCain emerged as his chief rival it turned out that only four of McCain's Senate Republican colleagues endorsed him. That did not help his battle to lead his party.Now here's a rare case of an endorsement that actually backfired. In 1994, Rudy Giuliani, the Republican Mayor of New York City, broke party ranks to back Democratic Governor Mario Cuomo for reelection. The problem, over the next few days a rural and suburban backlash emerged against this big city political ploy and on Election Day it was rural and suburban voters who put George Pataki into the governor's chair.(on camera): But if you're looking for really significant political endorsements wait until the fall and see if any high level Republicans bolt the party to back the Democratic nominee or prominent Democrats decide to endorse President Bush. There are a few political events more damaging than repudiation at the hands of one of your own.Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: If anyone understands politics, strategy and Al Gore's influence on both of it, it's Tony Coelho. He was Mr. Gore's campaign chairman for part of the 2000 run, one of the most astute readers of Democratic tea leaves we know and he joins us tonight from Washington, good to see you.
TONY COELHO, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thank you, Aaron.BROWN: Tell me how much the earth shifted politically today.
COELHO: Well, it made Dean the only person who can beat Dean. It's his to lose now. What he needed was, he has grassroots, he has money, he has organization, he has the fire out there right now and what he got today was a blessing from a major insider that said to a lot of people this guy's OK. Watch now, Aaron, in the next couple of weeks. I think you'll get governor's endorsements and other people start to move. That was sort of a check mark today. It was significant.
BROWN: Of the others, anyone come out of this less damaged?
COELHO: Well, I think that it will be interesting to watch Dick Gephardt in Iowa as to whether or not the industrial unions and Hoffa really take on the service unions and try to convince the labor movement that they still have much more influence than the service unions. So, I'd watch the Gephardt race in Iowa because of that. I'm told by some people in Iowa today that a lot of people who were undecided signed up with Dean, so that's going to be an interesting one.I think New Hampshire there's not much going on there. I think it's really Dean's to, you know, be embarrassed by if he doesn't win it in a landslide. But this is an important race right now. I think that Kerry's really damaged. I think that Lieberman sounded a little whiny today and so we'll see what happens with Clark and Edwards and Gephardt. That's where it sort of comes down to.
BROWN: Now, let's talk motivation because this is the other thing that I think is tantalizing in all of this. Do you buy into the notion that there is some Gore-Clinton Feud at play here?
COELHO: Well, you can be Shakespearian and say there's something going on. I think to a great extent what really is going on here is that when I talked to Gore about five or six months ago he wanted to wait until the month of December. He was going to talk to all the candidates.
He was going to endorse. He didn't care who endorsed or didn't endorse, if Clinton endorsed before him. That was not going to be an issue and so forth. This was when he decided he was going to and he's talked to a lot of them.Dean really did a lot of outreach. Dean really called him a lot and sought his advice but I think that this was according to Gore's plan. He really is hurt by some of the things that Bush is doing. He doesn't like the direction the country on -- where we are on foreign policy. He doesn't like what's going on on basic civil liberties and so forth and there's a lot of things that he thinks are wrong.
He didn't run because he thought the election would be about him and about the past and he wanted to move on and so I think there's a lot going on here about Al Gore and his concern about where the country is and I don't think the Clintons really play much of a role.They obviously, you know, there is that little thing in there but I don't really think it's that much of a significant thing. This is really about Howard Dean and how he was able to convince Al Gore to be supportive. It's an interesting study in the way Dean handled this and how surprising this guy is and the successes that he's had over the last six months. It has surprised every political pundit just how successful this guy is.
BROWN: Just as briefly as you're able, obviously it helps Governor Dean get to the nomination. Does it in any way help him get elected?
COELHO: Well, I think that the more that he shows that he's broader based, that he's supported by a broad range of people in the party it will help. I think also if we get this over with sooner rather than later he can then concentrate on the fight for the White House because we know, everybody knows that the White House is coming after him now.They're going to try to paint him into a corner as someone out of step with the rest of the American public, so he needs to get on to the real fight and look from everything I can see Howard Dean is prepared to fight and will be a fighter. He likes being in your face.
BROWN: He does seem to like that part.
COELHO: Yes.
BROWN: Good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on with us tonight.
COELHO: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you, sir.One more political note before we go to break, a sad one. Former Illinois Senator Paul Simon died today in Springfield, a day after undergoing open heart surgery. Simon, who was best known for his signature bow ties, served in the Senate from '85 to '97 after a long career in Illinois state politics. He made, you might recall, a brief run for the White House in 1988 but dropped out after winning only his own state's primary. Senator Paul Simon was 75.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a new problem for the White House trying to play peacemaker between China and Taiwan.And later, the school drug raid that continues to reverberate through a South Carolina town.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The producers of this program tell me that one of the rules of management is that if you ignore most problems they eventually go away. Unfortunately for George W. Bush that rule is trumped by the fact that there are some problems you simply can't ignore.Case in point the escalating tension between China and Taiwan, this is an especially sticky problem because the United States finds itself having to tell a natural ally, the government of Taiwan, a democracy if an imperfect one, to back off and not make trouble for those communists who run the mainland.Here again White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush welcome China's Premiere Wen Jiabao to the White House with all the fanfare accorded an important U.S. ally. The two leaders reiterated the strength of U.S.- China relations and their shared commitment to block Taiwan from breaking away from mainland China.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We oppose any unilateral decision by either China or Taiwan to change the status quo.
MALVEAUX: It was the Bush administration's strongest statement to date against the movement for an independent Taiwan, welcomed by Wen.
WEN JIABAO, PREMIERE OF CHINA (through translator): Such separatist activities are what the Chinese side can absolutely not accept and tolerate.
MALVEAUX: Recently, Taiwan's President Chen Sui-Bian announced a March referendum calling for China to withdraw its ballistic missiles aimed at the island and to renounce the use of force. It was viewed by China as a provocative move and has worried the U.S. that Taiwan may be preparing for a showdown with China.
RICHARD BUSH, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Over the last few weeks it has urged Taiwan in more explicit terms to sort of cool it.
MALVEAUX: The complex U.S. policy towards Taiwan presents Mr. Bush with a difficult balancing act. The U.S. is bound by law under it's one China policy to defend Taiwan if China invades.Bush raised eyebrows early on by promising to defend Taiwan and there is strong support among conservatives for that but Mr. Bush wants most of all to head off a political crisis in Asia. Some view the U.S. stand on Taiwan as inconsistent with its policy in promoting other democracies around the world.R.
BUSH: I don't think it's a reward. I think it does reflect the importance that China plays in U.S. foreign policy now.
MALVEAUX: China plays several important roles for the U.S. now including facilitating talks with North Korea to disarm and assisting in the U.S. war on terror. But critics say the Bush administration could be going too far in its support of Beijing in controlling Taiwan.
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: I understand the inclination to want to bend over backwards to please China. Pleasing shouldn't be appeasing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now Bush aides say it's not about appeasing China but rather making sure Asia remains stable, a big part of that keeping North Korea nuclear free and China has the influence to make that happen -- Aaron.
BROWN: Suzanne thank you, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.A couple more stories around the world before we go to break tonight, beginning with another bloody day in Iraq after attacks by two suicide bombers at two U.S. bases there. More than 60 soldiers were hurt in the two attacks...
(AUDIO GAP)
...that exploded in the northern city of Telafar.In Moscow today a female suicide bomber detonated a belt filled with explosives just across the street from the Russian Parliament Building. Six people died, 13 wounded in front of the Landmark National Hotel. The blast happened just before a meeting between Russian President Putin and regional leaders at the Kremlin.And Buckingham Palace has announced that Queen Elizabeth will have knee surgery on Friday. Oh, my goodness. The operation will remove torn cartilage from the royal left knee, a procedure similar to the one she had on the royal right knee back in January. You cannot say we don't cover all the news.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT crossing the 10,000 mark, more than four years after it made it there the first time the Dow climbs back but the world has changed.This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There was a moment today when we realized how much has changed in our world lately. This morning the Dow Jones Industrials crossed briefly above 10,000, something it first did four and a half years ago.Remember the economy and the world back then, the Internet, the boom times, IPOs, everyone getting rich? Mutual funds, they were honest. It all seemed so hopeful, so unstoppable and then it all came crashing down, a little greed here, a little deception there, a lot of terror everywhere. The world today is so very different than it was that March day in 1999. Here's CNN's Senior Financial Correspondent Allan Chernoff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Been there, done that, when the big board displayed 10,000 for the Dow Jones Industrial Average today there was a moment of applause then back to work, none of the euphoria that greeted Dow 10,000 the first time on March 16, 1999.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's getting noisy on this floor. There it is. And there's your reaction.
CHERNOFF: Technical analyst Ralph Acampora was cheering with a balloon which turned out to be highly symbolic.
RALPH ACAMPORA: This is America. This is the strength. This is blue chips. This is beautiful. There's nothing irrational about any of this.
CHERNOFF: But Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan argued it was, labeling the Bull rally irrational exuberance.Rational or not exuberance filled the New York Stock Exchange when the Dow actually closed above 10,000 nine trading sessions later. Exchange Chairman Richard Grasso tossed down 10,000 caps to cheering traders and bullish forecasters predicted the market would keep on soaring. It did but only until the following January. In the nearly three years since the Dow topped out at 11722, Wall Street and corporate America have been shaken. The attacks of 9/11 shuddered New York's financial community. The ensuing recession put millions out of work. Accounting scandals engulfed darlings of the bull market, Enron, WorldCom, Tyco, the top executives under investigation, indicted, or on trial. The financials upon which investors had bet their money in fact had been made up. As stocks sank, investors lost $8.5 trillion of paper wealth. Exchange Chairman Grasso was booted after his $140 million pay package became public.
ALFRED GOLDMAN, CHIEF MARKET STRATEGIST, A.G. EDWARDS: Wall Street today has gone through an aging process, a grain of Wall Street. So investors today are more skeptical, a bit more jaundiced. And their optimism is contained.
CHERNOFF (on camera): Wall Street is sobered and relieved to see the Dow climbing back to 10000, even if only for two minutes today. The industrials closed down 52 points. Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That, it seems, was about the only thing that played out today in the same way as it did in March of '99. The Dow fell back, closing below 10000, as Allan said. Last time, it took two more weeks for it to end a trading day above 10000. We'll see what happens this time and where it goes after that. Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: whittling away rights or making it easier to catch the bad guys? The Supreme Court and Miranda when we return.Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Nearly 40 years ago, when the U.S. Supreme Court first ruled that suspects had to be advised of their right to remain silent and their right to an attorney, lots of police chiefs in the country said the end was near, that it would never work; 40 years later, no smart cop says that. And many believe Miranda has actually made policing better, not harder. But today, before the Supreme Court, the question again was Miranda and how, if at all, police can do an end-around to get a confession.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): They're familiar words to anyone who has ever watched a cop show on TV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have the right to remain silent.BROWN: For almost 40 years, police have been required to tell those accused that they have the right to remain silent, the right to a lawyer, that anything they say can and will be used against them. And if those rights aren't read, the confession, the evidence, could well be thrown out. But those protections under legal challenge in recent years, the Bush administration arguing, police need greater flexibility.
BERNARD PARKS, FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE CHIEF: There always are going to be circumstances, unique circumstance that have never happened before. And you have to realize, officers often are reacting to spontaneous movement and statements by suspects. BROWN: The Supreme Court has had to deal with new questions about Miranda some 50 times since its original ruling. And the justices are again. In Colorado, a suspect twice waived off police attempts to read him his rights, then told officers where to find an illegal gun in his bedroom. The question, must Miranda rights always be read? Justice Sandra Day O'Connor asking, "It hasn't resulted in disaster, has it?"In a second case, a more complicated case, a common police strategy was used on a murder suspect in Missouri.
RON KUBY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What the police did was, they did a dry run with the suspect without Mirandizing the suspect, without giving her her rights. And then, after they elicited a confession, then they went back and did it the right way. I think the court is going to say, that's inadmissible as evidence.
BROWN: Justice Souter calling it a strong recipe for ignoring Miranda. Some legal experts see the court laying the legal groundwork for a broader examination of suspects' rights in a new age of domestic terror.
THOMAS GOLDSTEIN, SUPREME COURT APPELLATE ATTORNEY: The government is saying, look, you've got to give us flexibility, because we're involved in a lot of incredibly important investigations right now. And if you clamp down too hard, it is going to interfere with our attempt to stop terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Matt Mangino is the district attorney in Lawrence County, Pennsylvania; with us in New York, Robert Tarver, a legal analyst for NorthStarNetwork.com. Good to see you both.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Matt, let me start with you. I just want to focus on the Missouri case, because it is the richer of the cases, if you will. The issues are more interesting, I think. Why not simply have a rule that says, this simply, nothing you get before you read them the rights counts?
MATT MANGINO, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, essentially, that's what the rule is if the person is involved in a custodial interrogation. They have to be someone who's been arrested or has been detained, their freedom has been limited. And they're subject to interrogation. Once that begins, it's true. Anything that is taken from that point, and they're not Mirandized, they've not been read their rights, is excluded, and should be excluded.
BROWN: The woman in Pennsylvania -- in Missouri, rather -- was subjected to sophisticated police interrogation techniques prior to the point she was Mirandized. Why is that fair?
MANGINO: I have concerns about that Missouri case. And I think it was referred to earlier as a common practice. And I don't necessarily believe that that's a common practice that's being used by detectives across the country. In that situation, to rehearse a statement before you Mirandize somebody, I think there are certainly some concerns about that. But what we don't want to do is, we don't want to handcuff -- no pun intended -- the police and inhibit their ability to conduct investigations and do those in a proper manner, in which people have been apprised of their rights. BROWN: Let me come back to the question of handcuffing in a moment. Let me turn to Mr. Tarver for a second. Do you see -- the court, what, three years ago reaffirmed Miranda , I think, 7-2
.ROBERT TARVER, LEGAL ANALYST, THENORTHSTARNETWORK.COM: That's right, in a case called Dickerson.
BROWN: So what is your worst fear here?
TARVER: Well, the worst fear that is that they'll begin to tinker and begin to carve out certain exceptions to the Miranda rule. And the problem with carving out exceptions is, once you start down that so-called slippery slope, where are you going to stop? Right now, we have got a great bright-line rule. The rule says, you read them the five sentences. They then talk. And if you don't read it to them, well, then, you cannot admit the evidence that follows from that. That's very easy to deal with. The idea that police are being handcuffed, I find very, very difficult to comprehend, because the fact of the matter is, once you do that thing, then whatever follows
(AUDIO GAP)
MANGINO: Let's take a look first at the exclusionary rule. What the exclusionary rule does is, it's essentially the death penalty for evidence. If you find that someone hasn't been read their rights, they're haven't been apprised of their rights, that evidence can't be used against them. So, a defendant who essentially has confessed to a crime, whether it be murder, rape, robbery, can essentially walk because of the exclusionary rule. What we don't want to do is, we don't want to put police in a position where they don't know what they can do or what they can't do. As Justice Breyer said today, we can't expect police officers to be lawyers. And so we need to make sure that the rules are such they can certainly comply with them under sometimes what are very adverse conditions, situations that move very quickly.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: In the corner of my eye, I saw you nodding.
TARVER: Here's what it actually does. In saying that evidence is going to be thrown out when you don't follow the law, it encourages police and other officials to follow the law, because they know, if they don't do the right thing, well, then, the whole case is going to go down. The problem is that we in the criminal justice system and I think people who look at it from the outside, on a reactionary fashion, tend to put the burden on the wrong party.We put the burden on the so-called suspect, when the bottom line is to encourage police to do the right thing. If we do that, then we don't have to worry about these cases being thrown out left and right.
BROWN: Matt, if you could write these decisions and write the laws here, where would the wiggle room, if you will, be?
MANGINO: Well, let's look at the cases at hand.The Colorado case, for instance, this is an individual who was begun to be provided his rights, and then said, "I know them."
BROWN: Yes.
MANGINO: Yet the court now throws that case out, throws the evidence out in that case because he wasn't Mirandized? That's kind of ridiculous. Someone who says, "I know what my rights are," you still have to go through the formality of telling them what they are again?
BROWN: Yes.
TARVER: That's concern. That, I think, puts police officers at a disadvantage. In the Missouri case, what we also want to make clear is that somebody can make a voluntary statement, a confession, prior to being Mirandized and that confession can be used. It's only in situations where someone is in a custodial interrogation, where they're being detained, where their freedom has been limited, they can't leave, and they're interrogated without being informed of their rights. BROWN: Rob, we'll give you the last word here. Do you expect this court to give police a little more wiggle room than they currently have?
TARVER: Not necessarily. You still have a number of members there from the Dickerson decision in 2000, particularly Sandra Day O'Connor, who is strong on this, and David Souter, who is a former prosecutor and attorney general himself. I think he is going to hold out and probably be the strength of the court moving the decision forward.
BROWN: Good to have both of you. We appreciate not getting too caught up in the jargon of it all, so that our nonlawyers here, me, could understand it.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: another question of rights, this time what's at stake when police raid a local high school, big time, looking for drugs. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We were struck when we read a quote today from one of the students caught in a drug sweep at her South Carolina high school last month. She said, when she saw the officers coming towards her with guns drawn, yelling to get down, she thought Columbine. "Someone crazy must be in the school. They're trying to protect us," she said. Except, that's not what the guns and the dogs and the handcuffs were for; 107 students were searched. Two-thirds of them were black in a school where more than three-quarters of the student body is white. There's been lots of fallout, as you might imagine. Here's CNN Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands on your head. Do you understand? Do not move.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what happened at a South Carolina high school before the first bell rang.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody move. Do you understand? Hands on your head.
TUCHMAN: With some of their guns taken out of their holsters, police in Goose Creek, South Carolina, conducted the Stratford High School looking for drugs. When this happened last month, authorities released this jumpy video from this security camera with no video. But CNN has acquired higher-quality video, with the audio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands on your head now.
TUCHMAN: One hundred and seven students were detained, some with guns pointing at them, some with handcuffs, all told not to move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think this is funny? I don't want to hear no talking.
TUCHMAN: Many of the students cowered as the police dogs were brought in. When it was all over, no drugs were found. And now attorneys from seven different law firms are filing a class-action lawsuit, saying innocent students' rights were violated. The lawyers provided us this video after they say they requested it from police.
MARLON KIMPSON, PLAINTIFF ATTORNEY: What we saw on November 5 flashed across the television all across the nation were commando- style tactics that should be used in Baghdad, not in Goose Creek.
TUCHMAN: We met with attorneys and some of the families filing suit. They say, despite a high percentage of African-American students being detained, it's not a racial issue, just a rights issue. Danielle Fludd is a sophomore.
DANIELLE FLUDD, STUDENT: And I walked in the hallway, and this cop pointed a gun at me and told me to get down on the ground.
TUCHMAN (on camera): And what were you thinking?
FLUDD: I was shocked. I was dumbfounded. I didn't know what to think.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): So is Jake Lewis, the father of a 17-year- old at the school.
JAKE LEWIS, FATHER: After I viewed that video and I saw how they had abused those kids at that particular time, I told them that, there was no way on this planet I was going to allow you to get away with this.
TUCHMAN: Police said last month they had the school's permission to conduct the raid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Due to the fact that the police department had positive knowledge of the drug activity, the decision was made to enter the building in a tactical manner.
TUCHMAN: The suit targets the school district, the police department, and the city, as well as individuals. The school district did not want to comment on camera about the lawsuit. But spokeswoman Pam Bailey did tell CNN off-camera to let the process work, adding, "We have to let the facts speak for themselves."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: The school district does tell us it was served with the legal papers today. The lawsuit does ask for money -- not specific how much money they are asking for. We can tell you, this is not just a story of civil action. The county prosecutor is conducting an investigation of those who conducted the raid -- Aaron, back to you.
BROWN: Just on the civil suit for a second, what is it that they allege they should receive compensation for?
TUCHMAN: They are saying that their rights were violated, that the Fourth Amendment and the 14th Amendment, which have to do with their rights, were violated in a manner that should not be acceptable. Because they go to school and just because they're students, they say the authorities are not entitled to frisk them, to scare them, to point rifles at them.
BROWN: Gary, thank you. And every time we see the tape, it does get your attention. Thank you very much, Gary Tuchman. A few other items making news around the country today. In North Dakota, authorities say they have found blood of the missing student, Dru Sjodin, in the car of the man accused of kidnapping her. They say they have also discovered a knife in the car and Ms. Sjodin's shoe under a bridge. The sheriff said today he does not expect to find Dru Sjodin alive. In Rhode Island, a grand jury has charged the owners of a nightclub and the man who lit a pyrotechnic display in it with involuntary manslaughter. The display ignited a fire which you'll recall killed 100 people last February. The state's attorney general said the owners, who are brothers, failed to maintain a safe building. And, in Boston, more financial scrambling for the Catholic Archdiocese, which has now mortgaged its cathedral and seminary to secure back loans to pay for a $90 million settlement for the sex abuse that went on there. The money it expects to get from selling a mansion and other assets will not be available in time. When we come back, morning papers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Oh, man, so many newspapers, so little time. Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. Just doing a little housekeeping as we go here, in no particular order, because that's how they came to me. We'll start with "The Oregonian" out there in Portland, Oregon. Again, a kind of feature story on the front page, hard feature, "A Place Where Children Die," the fourth of a five-part series that the paper has run. And "Taking the Dry Road. In Not Deciding to Drink, a Warm Springs Teens Loses Friends, But Finds a Mentor Who Beat Alcoholism and Immerses Him in Tribal Culture." That's a pretty cool story and a very nice picture on the front page of "The Oregonian." "The Richmond Times-Dispatch" in Richmond, Virginia. I love this headline. "Shaken and Stirred"; 4.5 quakes seems to have caused just excitement and no major damage. That's the lead story in the paper. I'm just checking to see if there's anything else that I like. I guess you figured that out. "The Boston Herald" in Boston, Massachusetts. By the way, they have a picture of Michael Jackson, I believe that's the mug shot, the Khalid Shaikh Mohammed shot, as I think of it. "Not Enough: Brothers Face 200 Other Charges. Kin Want Others." This is the Rhode Island nightclub fire that we told you about just a moment ago. That's "The Boston Herald." They also put Howard Dean on the front page. "Lagging Dem Foes Lash Out at Dean" the headline there.I don't believe we've done "The Dayton Daily News" before in Dayton, Ohio. I was there just a month or so ago. "Flu Cases, Shot Requests Continue to Soar." So the flu makes the front page. "Children Says" -- I guess that's a hospital -- "Says 450 Ill Kids in the Past Two Weeks." That's pretty nasty, isn't it? Yes, that's "The Dayton Daily News." We appreciate their sending us the paper. Down the road, I guess it would be, in Cincinnati, "The Cincinnati Enquirer." "State OKs 350 Million to Fix I-75." So they have got a road story there. "Age of Users A Factor, County Coroner Says. Death By Cocaine Toll Soars in Butler County, Ohio." A nice story on the front page of that paper.How we doing on time, please?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five.
BROWN: How much?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-four.
BROWN: Oh, my goodness. "The Miami Herald" here. "Army Chaplain's Hearing Delayed For Review of Data." This is the James Yee court-martial that is going on. I have so many questions about that, I can't even begin to get into it, except, how do you decide, in an adultery case, who you give immunity to?"The Chicago Sun-Times." "People First Trusted and, Second, Genuinely Loved Him," Senator Paul Simon, who, as we told you, died earlier today. The weather tomorrow in Chicago, "City Slicker." I don't know. You figure it out. We'll update the day's top story and preview tomorrow after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Top story tonight: Democratic presidential hopefuls in debate in New Hampshire, the event dominated by the news earlier in the day that former Vice President Al Gore had endorsed Howard Dean. Gore said Mr. Dean had done the best job of igniting enthusiasm at the grassroots level. Tomorrow, right now here on this program, a story we held off today because of the press of news, another in our still photography pieces, this time a rare look inside two hospitals in Baghdad. That's NEWSNIGHT tomorrow.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.Good night for all of us.
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