Bombing in Basra Leaves Many Dead; Bush: U.S. Will Not 'Cut and Run' in Iraq; Michael Jackson Indicted
Aired April 21, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.Where Iraq is concerned there is war and there is terror. They are not the same. Today, though, they were both in Iraq, war in the north, terror in the south and they lead the program.In Congress there was talk that more money would be needed, billions more, and talk about a draft was out there as well. No one expects a draft soon, if ever, but the arguments, as you'll hear later in the program are not without merit.If the country is to have this debate, we offer one simple thought first. If there is a draft, it should include everyone, no getting out because you're a student, no getting out because you're female, no getting out because you're rich or connected. Everyone goes. Everyone serves in some way, shape, or form. In other words, a draft vastly different from the one during Vietnam. Is the country really ready for that sort of draft?To Iraq first, the whip, and Baghdad where CNN's Jane Arraf has the watch, Jane a headline from you tonight.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, violence in Iraq heads south as a lull in suicide bombings is broken by simultaneous attacks in Basra.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.On to the war and the price tag of the war growing by billions where our Senior White House Correspondent John King has the watch, John a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president said today the United States would not "cut and run" again in Iraq, interesting because it was his father who was president at the end of the last Gulf War and an administration that said it would not need any more money for the war until after the election now says it might -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.And finally to the Pentagon and a dustup over who was told what and when in the run-up to the war and whether Woodward got it right, CNN's Jamie McIntyre there for us, so Jamie a headline.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the Pentagon admitted today that it had deleted key aspects of a transcript between Bob Woodward and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld but insisted it didn't change the central fact that Rumsfeld said nothing that indicated President Bush had made an early decision to go to war with Iraq.
BROWN: Jamie, we look forward to the detail there, back to you and the rest shortly.Also tonight, Michael Jackson indicted out in California. Six bombs, one explosion, how Saudi authorities literally diffused a bad situation that could have been much, much worse.And later, it is all about timing, especially when the timing means saving lives in the front lines of war.And finally, brought to you by our own rooster your morning paper for tomorrow, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight with the harsh reality of the insurgency in Iraq. As simple as it is to kill soldiers and contractors, it is easier still to go after the soft targets, which is to say easier to murder civilians, most of them Iraqis and today many of them children. In that respect this morning in the southern city of Basra, it was simply murderous. Our reporting of a very trying day begins with CNN's Jane Arraf.
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ARRAF (voice-over): It was the deadliest attack in Iraq's second biggest city, Basra, since the end of the war and perhaps the most horrifying, among the victims of simultaneous suicide bombs children on their way to school. Dozens more were injured in the morning rush hour blasts detonated outside four police stations in Basra and nearby Azubar (ph).The attacks ended the lull in car bombings over the past few weeks seemingly replaced instead by attacks on coalition forces and a wave of kidnappings. In the volatile city of Fallujah, west of Baghdad, a three-day-old cease-fire that promised no offensive action by U.S. forces was punctured by continuing attacks by insurgents on Marine positions.Three Marines were wounded in the fighting Tuesday and Wednesday. U.S. forces say they killed more than 35 insurgents and a coalition spokesman said while the U.S. has agreed to a cease-fire with Iraqi officials, it won't hold for long if the attacks continue.
DAN SENOR, COALITION SPOKESMAN: There were always question marks about their capacity to deliver. We made it clear that time was ticking. There was a lot of progress to be done, a lot of work ahead and if there was not substantial progress quickly major hostilities would resume.
ARRAF: With continued alarm from Iraqis over the toll on civilians in Fallujah major hostilities would be politically difficult for U.S. forces.
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ARRAF: And all of this is taking place against the backdrop of a crumbling of part of the U.S.-led military coalition with Spain and then Honduras and the Dominican Republic saying they'll pull out troops. Now the U.S. says it can easily handle that militarily but as with the trickiest problems in Iraq the solution isn't just military -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, back to Fallujah for a second. When the fighting started there, lots of people left the city, families left the city to get out of the way. Over the last couple of days some, 100 or so I guess, started to move back in. Is there an exodus out again? Is there a feeling that this thing is about to pop one more time?
ARRAF: You know it's a horrible situation, Aaron. It's apparently been stalled. A lot of things have been stalled with this crack in the cease-fire and, again, the cease-fire means the U.S. will not conduct offensive operations but since the insurgents are firing at them, they're firing back. In retaliation for that and for not getting the weapons they say they need to collect, these heavy weapons, they've stopped families coming in. There was a trickle apparently today but there are tens of thousands who are still trying to get home and part of the reason the U.S. doesn't want them to come back is they are threatening. They are gearing up for a major offensive in that city if necessary -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. It's good to see you again, Jane Arraf in Baghdad for us tonight.As Jane mentioned, the cease-fire in Fallujah has now all but evaporated. A network camera crew was there as it did. Photographer Maurice Roper and sound technician Rob Covelli (ph) watched the moments they captured, watching the moments that the cease-fire broke down.This looks very much to us in many respects like Baghdad a year ago and the differences between then and now, difference that might mean a great deal politically or strategically even in the Green Zone or at the White House but less so or not, as you will imagine, as you will see from the Marines who are on the spot in Fallujah.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible) let us know when you're in your position and then we'll fall back, copy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible) again. We had a little fire and couldn't hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, let's go. Get them out. Let's go. We're going. We're going. We're going, come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey why don't you guys follow (unintelligible).
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BROWN: U.S. Marines in Fallujah today. To Washington next where the president today addressed the cost of leaving Iraq too soon and began grappling in earnest with the soaring price of staying put. It's long been a token of faith for the administration that no additional money would be needed for Iraq until early next year. Last week that assumption began looking shaky. Tonight it looks shakier still.Again from the White House CNN's John King.
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KING (voice-over): Outlining the stakes in Iraq to newspaper editors a promise that also appeared to be a criticism of his father's choice at the end of the first Gulf War.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Iraqi people are looking, you know, they're looking at Americans saying are we going to cut and run again? That's what they're thinking as well and we're not going to cut and run if I'm in the Oval Office.
KING: At the moment not cutting and running means increased troop levels in Iraq and a faster pace of operations that is draining money fast, so much so that key members of Congress say the $51 billion budgeted for military operations in Iraq this year will soon run out.
REP. JOHN SPRATT (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: What's the cost of 20,000 more troops?
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: I can't give you that number right now.
KING: The administration thinks it can get by in Iraq until at least August with existing money but also concedes it might have to reverse course and request billions more in emergency funding before the November election.
WOLFOWITZ: We made predictions and one of them we thought the 1st Armored Division could be coming home now. That prediction turned out to be wrong.
KING: At the editor's event, Mr. Bush said he came to talk policy, not politics but, when asked, the president did take issue with how his Democratic opponent recently defined the threshold for bringing U.S. troops home.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was a stable Iraq, not whether or not that's a full democracy. I can't tell you what's it's going to be but a stable Iraq.
KING: Mr. Bush said democracy is essential to keeping Iraq from collapsing into chaos.
BUSH: It's necessary. It's what will change the world, help change the world.
KING: Mr. Bush also said Wednesday's bombing in Saudi Arabia and the recent attack in Madrid are reminders terrorists would like to target the United States again too.
BUSH: Our intelligence is good. It's just never perfect is the problem.
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KING: And in private briefings the past two days now, both the president and his national security adviser have told members of Congress that in their view they are "certain" that terrorists will try to launch major strikes here in the United States, Aaron, before the November election.
BROWN: Back to Iraq and money, how loathe is the administration to go to the Hill before the election to ask for additional cash?
KING: Most believe it is now inevitable. The generals today, General Myers especially, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said that the Pentagon has figured out a way to shift money around and get at least through August. He says they're looking at a $4 billion to $5 billion shortfall right now for September. Secretary Wolfowitz says if you could shift money around among accounts you might be able to go a little bit longer but most believe they will run out of money in August or September, so that by July or so they'll be back looking for more.
BROWN: Why not, I mean not that we need to view all things politically but there is a political calculation here, why not just do it now rather than when the political season is heating up?KING: That's what many members of Congress are saying, especially because so many helicopters, Humvees, ammunition have to be replenished and repaired and all that. The administration's argument is that it wants to make the decision at the last possible minute so they'll request the right amount of money. The administration did say back in February it thought it would need about $50 billion from after the election into early next year. Now it looks like they're going to back that up and ask for $50 billion, maybe $70 billion late this summer.But, you're right, many members in Congress say let's get it in the pipeline now. Let's get the money going so you have the confidence it is coming. So far the administration is resisting that. Most of those saying move quickly are the Republicans, so whether the administration can keep up that firewall, if you will, remains to be seen.BROWN: John, thank you, John King our Senior White House Correspondent.Now here's a tip for you if Bob Woodward ever decides to write about you. You can argue about what you meant. It doesn't seem to pay to argue about what you said. A case in point the secretary of defense whose staff tried to rewrite a bit of history by hitting the delete key.That story from CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
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MCINTYRE (voice-over): At Tuesday's Pentagon briefing, Rumsfeld was disputing a passage in Bob Woodward's new book "Plan of Attack" alleging Saudi Prince Bandar was told by Rumsfeld two months before the invasion of Iraq it was going to happen and he could take that to the bank.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I don't remember saying it to be perfectly honest.
MCINTYRE: Woodward claims he got that directly from Rumsfeld.
BOB WOODWARD, "WASHINGTON POST": Don Rumsfeld is on the record, if you look on the Pentagon Web site, saying that he said this war plan you can take it to the bank. It's going to happen.
MCINTYRE: Except that the transcript of the October 23rd interview posted by the Pentagon had been edited and that quote had been deleted.R
UMSFELD: I've just been passed a note.
MCINTYRE: Aides to Rumsfeld say he was unaware of the deletions until he was handed a note just before the end of the briefing and that in the confusion of the moment he misunderstood what it said. Rumsfeld then stated flatly that nothing relevant had been removed.
RUMSFELD: But I can say with certain knowledge that nothing was taken out that would naysay what I just indicated in my response to the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible).
RUMSFELD: I beg your pardon?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible).
RUMSFELD: And you can take that to the bank.MCINTYRE: Pentagon officials say the transcript was edited by mutual consent with Bob Woodward after a meeting last Friday because they argued the deleted section did not directly confirm Rumsfeld spoke to Prince Bandar or when the conversation took place.Woodward denies he agreed to the deletion and the "Washington Post" published the full text of the deleted section Wednesday. "It is inconceivable that I would have agreed" Woodward told CNN when asked about the deletions. In fact, he says he was adamant "nothing of substance was to be removed from the transcripts."
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MCINTYRE: Pentagon's chief spokesman Larry Dorida (ph) admitted it was probably a mistake to delete the section of the transcript without including the standard disclaimer that some material had been eliminated and deemed off the record.He also said it was probably a mistake not to better inform Rumsfeld before he answered reporters' questions but he insisted that Rumsfeld did not deliberately mislead anyone and he also insists that Rumsfeld never said anything that would signal President Bush made the decision to go to war in January before the decision had actually been made -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, the Bandar conversation, whether the secretary remembers it or not it's pretty clear he spoke to it, took place when?
MCINTYRE: January 11th.
BROWN: OK. People can read the words and decide what it meant. I think that's pretty much the way Mr. Woodward has looked at it. It seems reasonable to us too. Thank you, Jamie. Mr. Woodward by the way will be with us tomorrow on the program.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, box kickers a part of the military that gets no glory and little respect except perhaps from the soldiers whose lives depend on them.And, John Kerry taking some incoming fire over his Vietnam record. Could political wounds hurt his campaign?From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
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PRINCE BANDAR BIN SULTAN, SAUDI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: And to be very honest with you, no BS, I've been in this town too long to know I should not tell you BS, I didn't know about the war actually except one hour before the attack.
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BROWN: That was Prince Bandar the Saudi Ambassador to the United States today disputing in his own words the notion that he was told about the war in Iraq before Secretary of State Powell was told as Bob Woodward reports in his new book. And, again, Mr. Woodward will be a guest here tomorrow for a couple of segments to talk about the issues that have arisen since the book came out.The Prince's comments came on a deadly day in Saudi Arabia. The capital of Riyadh was again the target of a suicide attack. At least four people were killed, 148 others injured. A group that says it is sympathetic to the aims of al Qaeda has claimed responsibility. The kingdom has been battling domestic Islamic terrorists and security forces have been scrambling to prevent an attack.Here's CNN's Sheila MacVicar.
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SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Saudi authorities had found and diffused five bombs but the sixth and possibly a seventh hidden in cars slipped through their nets.In the explosion right at the gates the front of the Saudi National Police Headquarters was sheered off. Offices gaped open to the sky. Clouds of smoke and dust rose and choked the neighborhood of central Riyadh.This is a key administrative center. This was a strike right at the heart of the regime. Saudi television showed wounded police and soldiers who have been on guard or at work in the building. Teams went through the rubble searching for the dead and wounded. For months, Saudi Police and security services have been engaged in waging war against Islamist extremists.
KHALID AL-MAEENA, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "ARAB NEWS": This comes in a series and a state of incidents that have been happening for the past couple of weeks. The Saudi authorities have arrested some of the terrorists, killed some of them but this continuing saga is going on.
MACVICAR: On Sunday after a shootout with militants police found bomb-laden vehicles and put these extraordinary pictures on Saudi television wanting people to see what they said the militants had planned.There were more than four tons of explosives, police said, more than enough to cause a great deal of death and destruction. (Unintelligible) for months but the threat level has been getting higher.This video appeared in March on a Web site linked to al Qaeda threatening Saudi police and security officials and warning of new attacks against foreigners. The man in the video is believed to be Abdul Aziz al-Muqran (ph) the al Qaeda leader in Saudi Arabia.Last week the U.S. State Department ordered non-essential diplomatic staff and their families to leave the country. Other Americans were urged to depart. This is Saudi Arabia's war. The target again today not just the regime but Saudi citizens. Nobody expects this to be a war that will end soon.Sheila MacVicar, CNN, London.
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BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, day after day across the country families honor loved one who have made the ultimate sacrifice but is this a burden we should all share? We talked to Senator Chuck Hagel about bringing back the draft.Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: There's been so many of those these days.There are, as we have said so many times, lots of differences between Iraq and Vietnam and here is another. There is no draft. Every person fighting in Iraq volunteered for one reason or another to be in the service, active or reserve.It may turn out that in a long term war on terror, if that's what we are in, a volunteer army isn't enough. We see already how stretched it is. So, should there be again a draft and, if so, what kind of draft?Senator Chuck Hagel put that thought on the table yesterday in the Senate. New York Congressman Charlie Rangel has made similar arguments in the House. It is an argument that focuses your attention, if you're 18 years old, or if you have a child.We talked with Senator Hagel earlier today.
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BROWN: Senator, are you trying to cause trouble here? Do you really think that the country is of any mood to reinstate the draft?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: Oh, Aaron, I think right now it's a radioactive issue. Politically no one would touch it but that's not why I raised the question yesterday in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.We have a serious issue ahead of us. It is part of the greater global war on terrorism that the president I think has rightly defined as a war against essentially mankind. It's a long term war and so therefore we're going to have to figure out for this long term effort how we're going to match the mission with the resources.And also I think there's a societal aspect to this too, Aaron. If we are a nation at war and I think we are, we will be for a while. We're committed all over the globe probably more commitments coming. Then is it fair to ask a nation to put the burden on just a few and not ask for any sacrifice from the rest? I don't think so.
BROWN: I want to talk about both of those things. So far in the war on terror, I would argue that the country at large has not been asked to sacrifice anything and, in fact, we're not paying for the war now. We'll pay for it in generations ahead because of the deficit. There's no draft. That's another aspect. Essentially no one has been called upon to sacrifice anything. Is that healthy for a society that's at war?
HAGEL: I don't think so, Aaron, and I think that's why we need a national debate on this. I recognize that this is going to be very difficult to get anyone's attention on here on Capitol Hill with the political candidates this year. I know that but we have a freight train headed right for us right down the track, Aaron. With these commitments that we've made across the globe, in our interest by the way, in our interest, and the president has correctly stated that it is in our interest that we deal with these things but we cannot allow this manpower issue, this societal issue to get to a point where there's a crisis. I mean look at Iraq today, 135,000 troops. We are extending almost everyone over there. More than 40 percent of those troops are National Guard and Reservists. The retention and recruitment for these people is going to start to deteriorate and I think the active military as well. Then what do we do? Where do we go? Where do we find the resources? It's painful to talk about these things but we must.
BROWN: I'd like to talk about the draft that you envision. We're about the same age. We both are Vietnam era babies basically. Do you see a draft that has the loopholes that existed back then? Do you see a draft that includes women? Do you see a draft that is only for military or is broadly for public service? What is it you see?
HAGEL: I don't have a prescription, a plan on this but here's what I do see to answer your question. First, I think if the country would move in the direction of mandatory national service, it should be that. Mandatory national service that would include an option as the draft.Think of how many things that we could do in this country if you energized this great young generation to be part of something greater than their own self interests and I think many of them want to do that, not just devoted to military but all over the country you could have these people helping make a better world for a year or two years.I think that's responsible. I think young people not only want to put something back into their country and contribute something but I think it enhances them. I think it makes them not only more appreciative but feel part of the leadership and part of the fiber of the country that gives them some legitimacy for leadership as they move into a generation of leadership. That's generally, Aaron, how I would conceive it. We have got so many options here that you could look at. It is important that we have not just hearings, but a debate, ideas that would come forward. And because we are such a great nation, with so many smart people, my goodness, we can figure this out.
BROWN: Well, I said this last night, not that anyone cares what I think, but I think it is a great debate to have for any number of reasons, including the ones we've talked about tonight. So I hope that happens. And then we can question decide whether it is the right course to take or not. It is good to see you again. Thanks for your time.
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HAGEL: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you.
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BROWN: Senator Chuck Hagel, Republican senator from Nebraska. And we talked with him earlier this afternoon. Ask a million schoolchildren and we can't imagine a single one saying, I want to be a freight expediter when I grow up. But it's a good thing that some of them do, a good thing for the 135,000 soldiers in Iraq who live for and might die without the freight being expedited, or, in the words that have come to describe it, the boxes being kicked. Here is NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
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BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The United States Army material center in Germany is 3,000 miles from the fighting in Fallujah and Najaf. But those who work here say they are a vital part of U.S. operations in Iraq.
MAJ. BRAD SNOW, CHIEF OF DISTRIBUTION AND TRANSPORTATION: This is an important part of the battlefield as far as we're concerned. When we see the reports about another soldier injured or something, we know that the medical supplies that those guys are being treated with came out of here.
NISSEN: The material center handles medical supplies for U.S. military services throughout Europe, Asia and parts of Africa. But it is the field hospitals, battalion aid stations and combat medics in Iraq that are foremost on everyone's mind.
COL. JETTAKA SIGNAIGO, COMMANDER, USAMMCE: Our failure to deliver could mean the difference between life and death. If you have got a young 18-year-old who has been traumatically injured out in the middle of the desert, the minute that surgeon turns to a nurse or a medic and says, hand me this, and they say, we don't have that, I don't want to be on the end where I've got to knock on that mother's door to tell her that her son didn't make it because we didn't have a simple product for them in the desert. NISSEN: The center can send any of 40,000 medical products to doctors and medical officer and medics down range in Iraq.
LT. COM. BYRON OWENS, CHIEF CUSTOMER SUPPORT: They can range anywhere from batteries that are used in medical equipment to medical gloves, pharmaceutical, narcotics. Just about anything that deals with the medical world, we pretty much carry.
NISSEN: The center's 400 Army, Air Force and Navy troops and U.S. and German civilians fill as many 4,000 supply orders a day, are working night shifts to assemble medical kits, including combat lifesaver bags carried by combat medics. Controllers try to adjust production and shipping to anticipate battlefield needs. But it is more art than science.
OWENS: Once they're on the ground and they start receiving casualties, that's when we find out what it is they really need.
NISSEN: Emergency orders can be shipped in 24 hours if requested supplies are among the 9,000 in warehouse stock.
SNOW: They call us up and say, look, I gotta have this in X hours or else I'm going to lose this patient, we want them to have the confidence that, when they call us, we're going to make it happen.
NISSEN: With every escalation in fighting, demand for medical supplies spikes. The center's command says that, on one Saturday this month, workers processed 586 high-priority requests for trauma supplies, more than they normally process in a month. They have to work fast, concentrate, carefully pack and check thousands of items, from pressure bandages to temperature-sensitive medications.
MAJ. THOMAS WIECZOREK, CHIEF OF RECEIVING AND STORAGE: We have things that require special handling. Things have to be double- checked before we ship it. Sending the wrong item could mean literally the difference between life and death.
NISSEN: So can getting the right items from the warehouse by cargo plane and convoy to the troops in the sand.
SIGNAIGO: There are never enough transportation resources. The toughest mile is always the last mile to the unit in the front lines to get the materiel forward.
NISSEN: Those in support operation far from the forward lines get little glory. They shrug off colleagues who refer to them somewhat dismissively as the box kickers.
SPC. TYRONE VERBELL, U.S. ARMY: We're not looked at as what people see on the TV and, oh, they're heroes, they're doing this and they're doing that. We're in the background.
SNOW: We don't get a lot of recognition. People kind of take it for granted that the food, fuel, beans and Band-Aids are always going to be there.
NISSEN: In the right quantity, in the right place, at the right time. Beth Nissen, CNN, Pirmasens, Germany.
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BROWN: Still to come tonight, Senator John Kerry getting hit again. This political firefight -- that's what it is -- over his old war wounds heats up. We'll try and answer those questions after the break.From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: This is a bit of unfinished business from last night. You'll recall, because you watch every night, don't you, that the Bush campaign was attacking John Kerry for failing to release all his medical records, this after an accusation that Mr. Kerry didn't really deserve one of the three Purple Hearts he was awarded. Yesterday, the Kerry campaign struggled to get that material out as it had promised. Today, it completed the task. So here again, CNN's Kelly Wallace.
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WALLACE (voice-over): On the campaign Web site more than 100 pages of documents which Kerry's advisers say put to rest any questions about whether Kerry deserved three Purple Hearts for his Vietnam service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry has a record in the military that he's running on not running from.
WALLACE: A Purple Heart, military experts say, is awarded to a soldier wounded by enemy fire. The documents provide details of the injuries which earned Kerry his second and third Purple Hearts. Shrapnel wounds when he came under fire, more shrapnel wounds and contusions when a mine detonated in another incident. But regarding his first Purple Heart, Kerry's military records don't specify his injuries or how he was wounded. His former commanding officer told the Boston Globe he had questioned whether Kerry's boat had taken enemy fire. The campaign showed CNN what it called a sick call treatment record from Kerry's personal files describing a shrapnel wound to his left arm.
KERRY: Those of us who were there know what happened. It hasn't been questioned in 35 years. Obviously in presidential races politics are politics and I understand that but I'm proud of my service.
WALLACE: The documents are filled with praise one superior saying in combat Kerry was unsurpassed. He was awarded the Bronze Star for saving a fellow soldier's life and the Silver Star, one of the highest honors for battle. (on camera): And when he came home, he protested the war. Thursday marks 33 years since he spoke out before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, actions that angered many of the same Vietnam veterans who are most vigorously questioning the awards Kerry received. Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.
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BROWN: A few other stories now that are making news around the country today, starting in Northern Illinois. The day after a string of tornadoes came through, a day later, the number of people who died has gone up. It stands at eight now. All of the bodies pulled from the wreckage of a tavern in the town of Utica, Illinois. Santa Barbara, California, next, where a grand jury has handed up indictments against Michael Jackson. Unclear as to the specifics now, but whatever they are, the defense promises a not-guilty plea. As you know, Mr. Jackson has already pleaded not guilty to charges brought earlier this year by the district attorney's office in Santa Barbara. This gets a bit complicated, but under California law, the new charges, if similar, will supersede the old ones. He'll be tried for them. Got it? On to Colorado and the Kobe Bryant rape case. A judge today dealt the defense a body blow, barring defense lawyers for the basketball star from gaining access to his accuser's medical records. The defense had planned to use them as evidence of her mental instability, arguing she forfeited her expectation of privacy by discussing her treatment with a number of people. The judge disagreed. And in Washington, the wife of Senator Max Baucus of Montana had a run-in with the law. Uncomfortable, this. Wanda Baucus was arrested today and charged with assault after an incident yesterday at a nursery in which police say she hit another woman during an argument over mulch. No kidding. Ahead on the program, we'll take a look at the man and the devil and the marks both have left on the American landscape. Our love affair with the still photograph continues tonight. We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Our love of still photographs at NEWSNIGHT often takes us to fascinating places. And so it does tonight. Photographer Mark Ruwedel has spent much of his career focusing his lens on the land. He's interested in what happens when people and places come together, how mountains remove to build a transcontinental railroad, for example, how we have named discoveries born of exploration. His intent, to show all of us how humans leave their mark on nature, something to consider today, the eve of Earth Day.
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MARK RUWEDEL, PHOTOGRAPHER: I'm interested in the history of landscape. And my work is all about the intersection of human and natural histories and how they kind of overlap or collide in some cases in the land, in other words, the kind of stories that are literally inscribed in the surface of the earth itself. One of my largest projects, a lot of people refer to as the railroad project. Its real title is "Westward the Course of Empire." The project consists of hundreds and hundreds of photographs of abandoned railroad lines in both the American and Canadian West, all from the same position, but the tracks are gone. Everything is gone. And so what we're left are the land forms of this earlier outmoded technology. I have made a certain number of photographs in these cuts where they had, you know, chopped away a slot in the mountain because the technology prohibited the incline. So if the mountain is in the way, you cut it away. I got really interested in the repetitive nature of those photographs. And I usually exhibit those photographs in large graded groupings, so that this kind of repetitive thing really becomes part of the meaning of the work. Place names are important part of my work. And I think they say a lot about who we are, who we name thing . Hell's Gate is one of the best places to see or to imagine, rather, the former plasticene lake where Death Valley is now. You stand in Hell's Gate and you can see almost through the water, if you're thinking that way. And wouldn't it be interesting to just go to these places?"Pictures of Hell" is actually an inventory of places that are named for the devil or hell. I've made a real attempt to get to all the devil's gates. And some of them are really spectacular geological formations. And some, you just kind of wonder, what was the guy thinking? These aren't 20 different versions of one devil's gate. They're 20 different devil's gates. And they're in Wyoming. They're in British Columbia. They're in California, Nevada and so on. Part of my attraction to deserts is that history just sits there. There are things in the California desert that the are 10,000 years old. And they're just there. I work on several projects at once. All my subjects and the places I'm interested in photographing are in the same general terrain. And desert landscapes in particular really appeal to me. If I'm working in really arid conditions, I might look for springs, because springs, of course, in a desert are critical in terms of human histories. And chances are, in my walk to that spring, I will encounter some trace of former use, whether it is 19th century mining or even more likely in terms of the springs, a foot path that could be 5,000 years old. I have a photograph where a very ancient foot path is intersected with World War II-era tank tracks from maneuvers in the deserts east of San Diego. And that's part of my attraction to deserts, is that history sits there. A friend of mine said that I photograph where the bones are closest to the skin. And I like that very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Mark Ruwedel.Morning papers. A break first.
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BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. All right, here is the theme tonight. There's a lot of really interesting things below the fold. But we have -- you know what that means? The paper is folded over.
Below the fold."The International Herald Tribune" starts us off, published by "The New York Times" in Paris. They lead, as you would expect, with an ugly day in the Middle East. "Car Bomb Hits Saudi Police Building. Blasts Also Take Heavy Toll in Iraq." Down at the bottom is the one that caught my eye, though. OK, if you can get a shot of this. Greenspan Fans Hope U.S. Can Keep Rates Low," interest rates. All day, I listened to this story on the radio and the take was totally different, that the fed chairman went up on the Hill and said it is inevitable we're going to raise interest rates. But the take at least that "The International Herald" -- and I assume this will be the story in "The Times" tomorrow -- is that, actually, he said, no, don't get ahead of yourselves. It's not going to happen quite so quickly. It is the kind of thing that amuses me.
"The Detroit Free Press" down leads with the war. "Sixteen Among Basra Dead. Al Qaeda Blamed. Police Facilities Hit." But, again, below the fold, a story that just -- I thought it was just a terrific headline. "He Was the Best Son, Mom Says." This is a story of a local Detroit-area man, Bradley Fox, who died in the fighting in Iraq. He was a veteran of Gulf War I as well.
"The Guardian," a British paper. The story will be -- is oddly familiar to Americans, too. "Race Slur Costs Ron Atkinson Job." Mr. Atkinson was a sports announcer, a famous soccer announcer who said a really stupid thing. And I can't repeat it. But you can imagine, below the fold.
All right, below the fold in "The Times," another British paper. "Darling, You Were Wonderful, But I Shouldn't Tell You So." The English Opera Company has issued a mandate to all employees that they can no longer address one another as darling. That's the story. It is a sex discrimination thing. How are we doing on time? OK, we can handle that.
"The Christian Science Monitor." "Iraqi Militants Raise Pitch of Attacks. The Counterinsurgent Campaign Could Last For Months or Years." Man. Down at the bottom, or below the fold at least, "Surprise Revival For Iron Mines In Minnesota." These are taconite mines. I know about this. We had to learn about this in grade school in Hopkins, Minnesota.
Anyway, they're coming back after being dormant for some time. "The Chicago Sun-Times" leads, as you would expect, with the horrible tornadoes in Utica. "No Place to Hide For the Eight Dead. Some Victims Killed After They Sought Coverage in the Utica Bar." The weather like the news in Chicago tomorrow is "crummy." That's "The Chicago Sun-Times." That's morning papers.And we have got one more, one more item. We'll take a break first. We like this, though. We'll be right back.
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BROWN: Finally, from us tonight, in all the brutality and all the misery we have come to see as business as usual in Iraq these days, the war has crossed another kind of line back home. For months now, in the comic strip "Doonesbury," B.D., the football coach and the Army reservist, has been stationed in Iraq. Somewhere along the line, it stopped being for laughs. Monday, he was wounded. And today, we learned two things about him. After all these years, we learned he has hair under the helmet. And we also learned he'll be going home without his left leg. B.D. made it through Vietnam nearly unscathed. We used to be able to make it through the funny pages unmoved, but not anymore. That's our report for tonight. Good to have you with us. We're back tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are as well.Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Aired April 21, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.Where Iraq is concerned there is war and there is terror. They are not the same. Today, though, they were both in Iraq, war in the north, terror in the south and they lead the program.In Congress there was talk that more money would be needed, billions more, and talk about a draft was out there as well. No one expects a draft soon, if ever, but the arguments, as you'll hear later in the program are not without merit.If the country is to have this debate, we offer one simple thought first. If there is a draft, it should include everyone, no getting out because you're a student, no getting out because you're female, no getting out because you're rich or connected. Everyone goes. Everyone serves in some way, shape, or form. In other words, a draft vastly different from the one during Vietnam. Is the country really ready for that sort of draft?To Iraq first, the whip, and Baghdad where CNN's Jane Arraf has the watch, Jane a headline from you tonight.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, violence in Iraq heads south as a lull in suicide bombings is broken by simultaneous attacks in Basra.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.On to the war and the price tag of the war growing by billions where our Senior White House Correspondent John King has the watch, John a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president said today the United States would not "cut and run" again in Iraq, interesting because it was his father who was president at the end of the last Gulf War and an administration that said it would not need any more money for the war until after the election now says it might -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.And finally to the Pentagon and a dustup over who was told what and when in the run-up to the war and whether Woodward got it right, CNN's Jamie McIntyre there for us, so Jamie a headline.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the Pentagon admitted today that it had deleted key aspects of a transcript between Bob Woodward and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld but insisted it didn't change the central fact that Rumsfeld said nothing that indicated President Bush had made an early decision to go to war with Iraq.
BROWN: Jamie, we look forward to the detail there, back to you and the rest shortly.Also tonight, Michael Jackson indicted out in California. Six bombs, one explosion, how Saudi authorities literally diffused a bad situation that could have been much, much worse.And later, it is all about timing, especially when the timing means saving lives in the front lines of war.And finally, brought to you by our own rooster your morning paper for tomorrow, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight with the harsh reality of the insurgency in Iraq. As simple as it is to kill soldiers and contractors, it is easier still to go after the soft targets, which is to say easier to murder civilians, most of them Iraqis and today many of them children. In that respect this morning in the southern city of Basra, it was simply murderous. Our reporting of a very trying day begins with CNN's Jane Arraf.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF (voice-over): It was the deadliest attack in Iraq's second biggest city, Basra, since the end of the war and perhaps the most horrifying, among the victims of simultaneous suicide bombs children on their way to school. Dozens more were injured in the morning rush hour blasts detonated outside four police stations in Basra and nearby Azubar (ph).The attacks ended the lull in car bombings over the past few weeks seemingly replaced instead by attacks on coalition forces and a wave of kidnappings. In the volatile city of Fallujah, west of Baghdad, a three-day-old cease-fire that promised no offensive action by U.S. forces was punctured by continuing attacks by insurgents on Marine positions.Three Marines were wounded in the fighting Tuesday and Wednesday. U.S. forces say they killed more than 35 insurgents and a coalition spokesman said while the U.S. has agreed to a cease-fire with Iraqi officials, it won't hold for long if the attacks continue.
DAN SENOR, COALITION SPOKESMAN: There were always question marks about their capacity to deliver. We made it clear that time was ticking. There was a lot of progress to be done, a lot of work ahead and if there was not substantial progress quickly major hostilities would resume.
ARRAF: With continued alarm from Iraqis over the toll on civilians in Fallujah major hostilities would be politically difficult for U.S. forces.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF: And all of this is taking place against the backdrop of a crumbling of part of the U.S.-led military coalition with Spain and then Honduras and the Dominican Republic saying they'll pull out troops. Now the U.S. says it can easily handle that militarily but as with the trickiest problems in Iraq the solution isn't just military -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, back to Fallujah for a second. When the fighting started there, lots of people left the city, families left the city to get out of the way. Over the last couple of days some, 100 or so I guess, started to move back in. Is there an exodus out again? Is there a feeling that this thing is about to pop one more time?
ARRAF: You know it's a horrible situation, Aaron. It's apparently been stalled. A lot of things have been stalled with this crack in the cease-fire and, again, the cease-fire means the U.S. will not conduct offensive operations but since the insurgents are firing at them, they're firing back. In retaliation for that and for not getting the weapons they say they need to collect, these heavy weapons, they've stopped families coming in. There was a trickle apparently today but there are tens of thousands who are still trying to get home and part of the reason the U.S. doesn't want them to come back is they are threatening. They are gearing up for a major offensive in that city if necessary -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. It's good to see you again, Jane Arraf in Baghdad for us tonight.As Jane mentioned, the cease-fire in Fallujah has now all but evaporated. A network camera crew was there as it did. Photographer Maurice Roper and sound technician Rob Covelli (ph) watched the moments they captured, watching the moments that the cease-fire broke down.This looks very much to us in many respects like Baghdad a year ago and the differences between then and now, difference that might mean a great deal politically or strategically even in the Green Zone or at the White House but less so or not, as you will imagine, as you will see from the Marines who are on the spot in Fallujah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible) let us know when you're in your position and then we'll fall back, copy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible) again. We had a little fire and couldn't hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, let's go. Get them out. Let's go. We're going. We're going. We're going, come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey why don't you guys follow (unintelligible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: U.S. Marines in Fallujah today. To Washington next where the president today addressed the cost of leaving Iraq too soon and began grappling in earnest with the soaring price of staying put. It's long been a token of faith for the administration that no additional money would be needed for Iraq until early next year. Last week that assumption began looking shaky. Tonight it looks shakier still.Again from the White House CNN's John King.
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KING (voice-over): Outlining the stakes in Iraq to newspaper editors a promise that also appeared to be a criticism of his father's choice at the end of the first Gulf War.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Iraqi people are looking, you know, they're looking at Americans saying are we going to cut and run again? That's what they're thinking as well and we're not going to cut and run if I'm in the Oval Office.
KING: At the moment not cutting and running means increased troop levels in Iraq and a faster pace of operations that is draining money fast, so much so that key members of Congress say the $51 billion budgeted for military operations in Iraq this year will soon run out.
REP. JOHN SPRATT (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: What's the cost of 20,000 more troops?
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: I can't give you that number right now.
KING: The administration thinks it can get by in Iraq until at least August with existing money but also concedes it might have to reverse course and request billions more in emergency funding before the November election.
WOLFOWITZ: We made predictions and one of them we thought the 1st Armored Division could be coming home now. That prediction turned out to be wrong.
KING: At the editor's event, Mr. Bush said he came to talk policy, not politics but, when asked, the president did take issue with how his Democratic opponent recently defined the threshold for bringing U.S. troops home.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was a stable Iraq, not whether or not that's a full democracy. I can't tell you what's it's going to be but a stable Iraq.
KING: Mr. Bush said democracy is essential to keeping Iraq from collapsing into chaos.
BUSH: It's necessary. It's what will change the world, help change the world.
KING: Mr. Bush also said Wednesday's bombing in Saudi Arabia and the recent attack in Madrid are reminders terrorists would like to target the United States again too.
BUSH: Our intelligence is good. It's just never perfect is the problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And in private briefings the past two days now, both the president and his national security adviser have told members of Congress that in their view they are "certain" that terrorists will try to launch major strikes here in the United States, Aaron, before the November election.
BROWN: Back to Iraq and money, how loathe is the administration to go to the Hill before the election to ask for additional cash?
KING: Most believe it is now inevitable. The generals today, General Myers especially, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, said that the Pentagon has figured out a way to shift money around and get at least through August. He says they're looking at a $4 billion to $5 billion shortfall right now for September. Secretary Wolfowitz says if you could shift money around among accounts you might be able to go a little bit longer but most believe they will run out of money in August or September, so that by July or so they'll be back looking for more.
BROWN: Why not, I mean not that we need to view all things politically but there is a political calculation here, why not just do it now rather than when the political season is heating up?KING: That's what many members of Congress are saying, especially because so many helicopters, Humvees, ammunition have to be replenished and repaired and all that. The administration's argument is that it wants to make the decision at the last possible minute so they'll request the right amount of money. The administration did say back in February it thought it would need about $50 billion from after the election into early next year. Now it looks like they're going to back that up and ask for $50 billion, maybe $70 billion late this summer.But, you're right, many members in Congress say let's get it in the pipeline now. Let's get the money going so you have the confidence it is coming. So far the administration is resisting that. Most of those saying move quickly are the Republicans, so whether the administration can keep up that firewall, if you will, remains to be seen.BROWN: John, thank you, John King our Senior White House Correspondent.Now here's a tip for you if Bob Woodward ever decides to write about you. You can argue about what you meant. It doesn't seem to pay to argue about what you said. A case in point the secretary of defense whose staff tried to rewrite a bit of history by hitting the delete key.That story from CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
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MCINTYRE (voice-over): At Tuesday's Pentagon briefing, Rumsfeld was disputing a passage in Bob Woodward's new book "Plan of Attack" alleging Saudi Prince Bandar was told by Rumsfeld two months before the invasion of Iraq it was going to happen and he could take that to the bank.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I don't remember saying it to be perfectly honest.
MCINTYRE: Woodward claims he got that directly from Rumsfeld.
BOB WOODWARD, "WASHINGTON POST": Don Rumsfeld is on the record, if you look on the Pentagon Web site, saying that he said this war plan you can take it to the bank. It's going to happen.
MCINTYRE: Except that the transcript of the October 23rd interview posted by the Pentagon had been edited and that quote had been deleted.R
UMSFELD: I've just been passed a note.
MCINTYRE: Aides to Rumsfeld say he was unaware of the deletions until he was handed a note just before the end of the briefing and that in the confusion of the moment he misunderstood what it said. Rumsfeld then stated flatly that nothing relevant had been removed.
RUMSFELD: But I can say with certain knowledge that nothing was taken out that would naysay what I just indicated in my response to the question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible).
RUMSFELD: I beg your pardon?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Unintelligible).
RUMSFELD: And you can take that to the bank.MCINTYRE: Pentagon officials say the transcript was edited by mutual consent with Bob Woodward after a meeting last Friday because they argued the deleted section did not directly confirm Rumsfeld spoke to Prince Bandar or when the conversation took place.Woodward denies he agreed to the deletion and the "Washington Post" published the full text of the deleted section Wednesday. "It is inconceivable that I would have agreed" Woodward told CNN when asked about the deletions. In fact, he says he was adamant "nothing of substance was to be removed from the transcripts."
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MCINTYRE: Pentagon's chief spokesman Larry Dorida (ph) admitted it was probably a mistake to delete the section of the transcript without including the standard disclaimer that some material had been eliminated and deemed off the record.He also said it was probably a mistake not to better inform Rumsfeld before he answered reporters' questions but he insisted that Rumsfeld did not deliberately mislead anyone and he also insists that Rumsfeld never said anything that would signal President Bush made the decision to go to war in January before the decision had actually been made -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, the Bandar conversation, whether the secretary remembers it or not it's pretty clear he spoke to it, took place when?
MCINTYRE: January 11th.
BROWN: OK. People can read the words and decide what it meant. I think that's pretty much the way Mr. Woodward has looked at it. It seems reasonable to us too. Thank you, Jamie. Mr. Woodward by the way will be with us tomorrow on the program.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, box kickers a part of the military that gets no glory and little respect except perhaps from the soldiers whose lives depend on them.And, John Kerry taking some incoming fire over his Vietnam record. Could political wounds hurt his campaign?From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE BANDAR BIN SULTAN, SAUDI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: And to be very honest with you, no BS, I've been in this town too long to know I should not tell you BS, I didn't know about the war actually except one hour before the attack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That was Prince Bandar the Saudi Ambassador to the United States today disputing in his own words the notion that he was told about the war in Iraq before Secretary of State Powell was told as Bob Woodward reports in his new book. And, again, Mr. Woodward will be a guest here tomorrow for a couple of segments to talk about the issues that have arisen since the book came out.The Prince's comments came on a deadly day in Saudi Arabia. The capital of Riyadh was again the target of a suicide attack. At least four people were killed, 148 others injured. A group that says it is sympathetic to the aims of al Qaeda has claimed responsibility. The kingdom has been battling domestic Islamic terrorists and security forces have been scrambling to prevent an attack.Here's CNN's Sheila MacVicar.
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SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Saudi authorities had found and diffused five bombs but the sixth and possibly a seventh hidden in cars slipped through their nets.In the explosion right at the gates the front of the Saudi National Police Headquarters was sheered off. Offices gaped open to the sky. Clouds of smoke and dust rose and choked the neighborhood of central Riyadh.This is a key administrative center. This was a strike right at the heart of the regime. Saudi television showed wounded police and soldiers who have been on guard or at work in the building. Teams went through the rubble searching for the dead and wounded. For months, Saudi Police and security services have been engaged in waging war against Islamist extremists.
KHALID AL-MAEENA, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "ARAB NEWS": This comes in a series and a state of incidents that have been happening for the past couple of weeks. The Saudi authorities have arrested some of the terrorists, killed some of them but this continuing saga is going on.
MACVICAR: On Sunday after a shootout with militants police found bomb-laden vehicles and put these extraordinary pictures on Saudi television wanting people to see what they said the militants had planned.There were more than four tons of explosives, police said, more than enough to cause a great deal of death and destruction. (Unintelligible) for months but the threat level has been getting higher.This video appeared in March on a Web site linked to al Qaeda threatening Saudi police and security officials and warning of new attacks against foreigners. The man in the video is believed to be Abdul Aziz al-Muqran (ph) the al Qaeda leader in Saudi Arabia.Last week the U.S. State Department ordered non-essential diplomatic staff and their families to leave the country. Other Americans were urged to depart. This is Saudi Arabia's war. The target again today not just the regime but Saudi citizens. Nobody expects this to be a war that will end soon.Sheila MacVicar, CNN, London.
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BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, day after day across the country families honor loved one who have made the ultimate sacrifice but is this a burden we should all share? We talked to Senator Chuck Hagel about bringing back the draft.Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: There's been so many of those these days.There are, as we have said so many times, lots of differences between Iraq and Vietnam and here is another. There is no draft. Every person fighting in Iraq volunteered for one reason or another to be in the service, active or reserve.It may turn out that in a long term war on terror, if that's what we are in, a volunteer army isn't enough. We see already how stretched it is. So, should there be again a draft and, if so, what kind of draft?Senator Chuck Hagel put that thought on the table yesterday in the Senate. New York Congressman Charlie Rangel has made similar arguments in the House. It is an argument that focuses your attention, if you're 18 years old, or if you have a child.We talked with Senator Hagel earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator, are you trying to cause trouble here? Do you really think that the country is of any mood to reinstate the draft?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: Oh, Aaron, I think right now it's a radioactive issue. Politically no one would touch it but that's not why I raised the question yesterday in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.We have a serious issue ahead of us. It is part of the greater global war on terrorism that the president I think has rightly defined as a war against essentially mankind. It's a long term war and so therefore we're going to have to figure out for this long term effort how we're going to match the mission with the resources.And also I think there's a societal aspect to this too, Aaron. If we are a nation at war and I think we are, we will be for a while. We're committed all over the globe probably more commitments coming. Then is it fair to ask a nation to put the burden on just a few and not ask for any sacrifice from the rest? I don't think so.
BROWN: I want to talk about both of those things. So far in the war on terror, I would argue that the country at large has not been asked to sacrifice anything and, in fact, we're not paying for the war now. We'll pay for it in generations ahead because of the deficit. There's no draft. That's another aspect. Essentially no one has been called upon to sacrifice anything. Is that healthy for a society that's at war?
HAGEL: I don't think so, Aaron, and I think that's why we need a national debate on this. I recognize that this is going to be very difficult to get anyone's attention on here on Capitol Hill with the political candidates this year. I know that but we have a freight train headed right for us right down the track, Aaron. With these commitments that we've made across the globe, in our interest by the way, in our interest, and the president has correctly stated that it is in our interest that we deal with these things but we cannot allow this manpower issue, this societal issue to get to a point where there's a crisis. I mean look at Iraq today, 135,000 troops. We are extending almost everyone over there. More than 40 percent of those troops are National Guard and Reservists. The retention and recruitment for these people is going to start to deteriorate and I think the active military as well. Then what do we do? Where do we go? Where do we find the resources? It's painful to talk about these things but we must.
BROWN: I'd like to talk about the draft that you envision. We're about the same age. We both are Vietnam era babies basically. Do you see a draft that has the loopholes that existed back then? Do you see a draft that includes women? Do you see a draft that is only for military or is broadly for public service? What is it you see?
HAGEL: I don't have a prescription, a plan on this but here's what I do see to answer your question. First, I think if the country would move in the direction of mandatory national service, it should be that. Mandatory national service that would include an option as the draft.Think of how many things that we could do in this country if you energized this great young generation to be part of something greater than their own self interests and I think many of them want to do that, not just devoted to military but all over the country you could have these people helping make a better world for a year or two years.I think that's responsible. I think young people not only want to put something back into their country and contribute something but I think it enhances them. I think it makes them not only more appreciative but feel part of the leadership and part of the fiber of the country that gives them some legitimacy for leadership as they move into a generation of leadership. That's generally, Aaron, how I would conceive it. We have got so many options here that you could look at. It is important that we have not just hearings, but a debate, ideas that would come forward. And because we are such a great nation, with so many smart people, my goodness, we can figure this out.
BROWN: Well, I said this last night, not that anyone cares what I think, but I think it is a great debate to have for any number of reasons, including the ones we've talked about tonight. So I hope that happens. And then we can question decide whether it is the right course to take or not. It is good to see you again. Thanks for your time.
(CROSSTALK)
HAGEL: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator Chuck Hagel, Republican senator from Nebraska. And we talked with him earlier this afternoon. Ask a million schoolchildren and we can't imagine a single one saying, I want to be a freight expediter when I grow up. But it's a good thing that some of them do, a good thing for the 135,000 soldiers in Iraq who live for and might die without the freight being expedited, or, in the words that have come to describe it, the boxes being kicked. Here is NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The United States Army material center in Germany is 3,000 miles from the fighting in Fallujah and Najaf. But those who work here say they are a vital part of U.S. operations in Iraq.
MAJ. BRAD SNOW, CHIEF OF DISTRIBUTION AND TRANSPORTATION: This is an important part of the battlefield as far as we're concerned. When we see the reports about another soldier injured or something, we know that the medical supplies that those guys are being treated with came out of here.
NISSEN: The material center handles medical supplies for U.S. military services throughout Europe, Asia and parts of Africa. But it is the field hospitals, battalion aid stations and combat medics in Iraq that are foremost on everyone's mind.
COL. JETTAKA SIGNAIGO, COMMANDER, USAMMCE: Our failure to deliver could mean the difference between life and death. If you have got a young 18-year-old who has been traumatically injured out in the middle of the desert, the minute that surgeon turns to a nurse or a medic and says, hand me this, and they say, we don't have that, I don't want to be on the end where I've got to knock on that mother's door to tell her that her son didn't make it because we didn't have a simple product for them in the desert. NISSEN: The center can send any of 40,000 medical products to doctors and medical officer and medics down range in Iraq.
LT. COM. BYRON OWENS, CHIEF CUSTOMER SUPPORT: They can range anywhere from batteries that are used in medical equipment to medical gloves, pharmaceutical, narcotics. Just about anything that deals with the medical world, we pretty much carry.
NISSEN: The center's 400 Army, Air Force and Navy troops and U.S. and German civilians fill as many 4,000 supply orders a day, are working night shifts to assemble medical kits, including combat lifesaver bags carried by combat medics. Controllers try to adjust production and shipping to anticipate battlefield needs. But it is more art than science.
OWENS: Once they're on the ground and they start receiving casualties, that's when we find out what it is they really need.
NISSEN: Emergency orders can be shipped in 24 hours if requested supplies are among the 9,000 in warehouse stock.
SNOW: They call us up and say, look, I gotta have this in X hours or else I'm going to lose this patient, we want them to have the confidence that, when they call us, we're going to make it happen.
NISSEN: With every escalation in fighting, demand for medical supplies spikes. The center's command says that, on one Saturday this month, workers processed 586 high-priority requests for trauma supplies, more than they normally process in a month. They have to work fast, concentrate, carefully pack and check thousands of items, from pressure bandages to temperature-sensitive medications.
MAJ. THOMAS WIECZOREK, CHIEF OF RECEIVING AND STORAGE: We have things that require special handling. Things have to be double- checked before we ship it. Sending the wrong item could mean literally the difference between life and death.
NISSEN: So can getting the right items from the warehouse by cargo plane and convoy to the troops in the sand.
SIGNAIGO: There are never enough transportation resources. The toughest mile is always the last mile to the unit in the front lines to get the materiel forward.
NISSEN: Those in support operation far from the forward lines get little glory. They shrug off colleagues who refer to them somewhat dismissively as the box kickers.
SPC. TYRONE VERBELL, U.S. ARMY: We're not looked at as what people see on the TV and, oh, they're heroes, they're doing this and they're doing that. We're in the background.
SNOW: We don't get a lot of recognition. People kind of take it for granted that the food, fuel, beans and Band-Aids are always going to be there.
NISSEN: In the right quantity, in the right place, at the right time. Beth Nissen, CNN, Pirmasens, Germany.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still to come tonight, Senator John Kerry getting hit again. This political firefight -- that's what it is -- over his old war wounds heats up. We'll try and answer those questions after the break.From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: This is a bit of unfinished business from last night. You'll recall, because you watch every night, don't you, that the Bush campaign was attacking John Kerry for failing to release all his medical records, this after an accusation that Mr. Kerry didn't really deserve one of the three Purple Hearts he was awarded. Yesterday, the Kerry campaign struggled to get that material out as it had promised. Today, it completed the task. So here again, CNN's Kelly Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (voice-over): On the campaign Web site more than 100 pages of documents which Kerry's advisers say put to rest any questions about whether Kerry deserved three Purple Hearts for his Vietnam service.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry has a record in the military that he's running on not running from.
WALLACE: A Purple Heart, military experts say, is awarded to a soldier wounded by enemy fire. The documents provide details of the injuries which earned Kerry his second and third Purple Hearts. Shrapnel wounds when he came under fire, more shrapnel wounds and contusions when a mine detonated in another incident. But regarding his first Purple Heart, Kerry's military records don't specify his injuries or how he was wounded. His former commanding officer told the Boston Globe he had questioned whether Kerry's boat had taken enemy fire. The campaign showed CNN what it called a sick call treatment record from Kerry's personal files describing a shrapnel wound to his left arm.
KERRY: Those of us who were there know what happened. It hasn't been questioned in 35 years. Obviously in presidential races politics are politics and I understand that but I'm proud of my service.
WALLACE: The documents are filled with praise one superior saying in combat Kerry was unsurpassed. He was awarded the Bronze Star for saving a fellow soldier's life and the Silver Star, one of the highest honors for battle. (on camera): And when he came home, he protested the war. Thursday marks 33 years since he spoke out before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, actions that angered many of the same Vietnam veterans who are most vigorously questioning the awards Kerry received. Kelly Wallace, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few other stories now that are making news around the country today, starting in Northern Illinois. The day after a string of tornadoes came through, a day later, the number of people who died has gone up. It stands at eight now. All of the bodies pulled from the wreckage of a tavern in the town of Utica, Illinois. Santa Barbara, California, next, where a grand jury has handed up indictments against Michael Jackson. Unclear as to the specifics now, but whatever they are, the defense promises a not-guilty plea. As you know, Mr. Jackson has already pleaded not guilty to charges brought earlier this year by the district attorney's office in Santa Barbara. This gets a bit complicated, but under California law, the new charges, if similar, will supersede the old ones. He'll be tried for them. Got it? On to Colorado and the Kobe Bryant rape case. A judge today dealt the defense a body blow, barring defense lawyers for the basketball star from gaining access to his accuser's medical records. The defense had planned to use them as evidence of her mental instability, arguing she forfeited her expectation of privacy by discussing her treatment with a number of people. The judge disagreed. And in Washington, the wife of Senator Max Baucus of Montana had a run-in with the law. Uncomfortable, this. Wanda Baucus was arrested today and charged with assault after an incident yesterday at a nursery in which police say she hit another woman during an argument over mulch. No kidding. Ahead on the program, we'll take a look at the man and the devil and the marks both have left on the American landscape. Our love affair with the still photograph continues tonight. We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Our love of still photographs at NEWSNIGHT often takes us to fascinating places. And so it does tonight. Photographer Mark Ruwedel has spent much of his career focusing his lens on the land. He's interested in what happens when people and places come together, how mountains remove to build a transcontinental railroad, for example, how we have named discoveries born of exploration. His intent, to show all of us how humans leave their mark on nature, something to consider today, the eve of Earth Day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK RUWEDEL, PHOTOGRAPHER: I'm interested in the history of landscape. And my work is all about the intersection of human and natural histories and how they kind of overlap or collide in some cases in the land, in other words, the kind of stories that are literally inscribed in the surface of the earth itself. One of my largest projects, a lot of people refer to as the railroad project. Its real title is "Westward the Course of Empire." The project consists of hundreds and hundreds of photographs of abandoned railroad lines in both the American and Canadian West, all from the same position, but the tracks are gone. Everything is gone. And so what we're left are the land forms of this earlier outmoded technology. I have made a certain number of photographs in these cuts where they had, you know, chopped away a slot in the mountain because the technology prohibited the incline. So if the mountain is in the way, you cut it away. I got really interested in the repetitive nature of those photographs. And I usually exhibit those photographs in large graded groupings, so that this kind of repetitive thing really becomes part of the meaning of the work. Place names are important part of my work. And I think they say a lot about who we are, who we name thing . Hell's Gate is one of the best places to see or to imagine, rather, the former plasticene lake where Death Valley is now. You stand in Hell's Gate and you can see almost through the water, if you're thinking that way. And wouldn't it be interesting to just go to these places?"Pictures of Hell" is actually an inventory of places that are named for the devil or hell. I've made a real attempt to get to all the devil's gates. And some of them are really spectacular geological formations. And some, you just kind of wonder, what was the guy thinking? These aren't 20 different versions of one devil's gate. They're 20 different devil's gates. And they're in Wyoming. They're in British Columbia. They're in California, Nevada and so on. Part of my attraction to deserts is that history just sits there. There are things in the California desert that the are 10,000 years old. And they're just there. I work on several projects at once. All my subjects and the places I'm interested in photographing are in the same general terrain. And desert landscapes in particular really appeal to me. If I'm working in really arid conditions, I might look for springs, because springs, of course, in a desert are critical in terms of human histories. And chances are, in my walk to that spring, I will encounter some trace of former use, whether it is 19th century mining or even more likely in terms of the springs, a foot path that could be 5,000 years old. I have a photograph where a very ancient foot path is intersected with World War II-era tank tracks from maneuvers in the deserts east of San Diego. And that's part of my attraction to deserts, is that history sits there. A friend of mine said that I photograph where the bones are closest to the skin. And I like that very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Mark Ruwedel.Morning papers. A break first.
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BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. All right, here is the theme tonight. There's a lot of really interesting things below the fold. But we have -- you know what that means? The paper is folded over.
Below the fold."The International Herald Tribune" starts us off, published by "The New York Times" in Paris. They lead, as you would expect, with an ugly day in the Middle East. "Car Bomb Hits Saudi Police Building. Blasts Also Take Heavy Toll in Iraq." Down at the bottom is the one that caught my eye, though. OK, if you can get a shot of this. Greenspan Fans Hope U.S. Can Keep Rates Low," interest rates. All day, I listened to this story on the radio and the take was totally different, that the fed chairman went up on the Hill and said it is inevitable we're going to raise interest rates. But the take at least that "The International Herald" -- and I assume this will be the story in "The Times" tomorrow -- is that, actually, he said, no, don't get ahead of yourselves. It's not going to happen quite so quickly. It is the kind of thing that amuses me.
"The Detroit Free Press" down leads with the war. "Sixteen Among Basra Dead. Al Qaeda Blamed. Police Facilities Hit." But, again, below the fold, a story that just -- I thought it was just a terrific headline. "He Was the Best Son, Mom Says." This is a story of a local Detroit-area man, Bradley Fox, who died in the fighting in Iraq. He was a veteran of Gulf War I as well.
"The Guardian," a British paper. The story will be -- is oddly familiar to Americans, too. "Race Slur Costs Ron Atkinson Job." Mr. Atkinson was a sports announcer, a famous soccer announcer who said a really stupid thing. And I can't repeat it. But you can imagine, below the fold.
All right, below the fold in "The Times," another British paper. "Darling, You Were Wonderful, But I Shouldn't Tell You So." The English Opera Company has issued a mandate to all employees that they can no longer address one another as darling. That's the story. It is a sex discrimination thing. How are we doing on time? OK, we can handle that.
"The Christian Science Monitor." "Iraqi Militants Raise Pitch of Attacks. The Counterinsurgent Campaign Could Last For Months or Years." Man. Down at the bottom, or below the fold at least, "Surprise Revival For Iron Mines In Minnesota." These are taconite mines. I know about this. We had to learn about this in grade school in Hopkins, Minnesota.
Anyway, they're coming back after being dormant for some time. "The Chicago Sun-Times" leads, as you would expect, with the horrible tornadoes in Utica. "No Place to Hide For the Eight Dead. Some Victims Killed After They Sought Coverage in the Utica Bar." The weather like the news in Chicago tomorrow is "crummy." That's "The Chicago Sun-Times." That's morning papers.And we have got one more, one more item. We'll take a break first. We like this, though. We'll be right back.
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BROWN: Finally, from us tonight, in all the brutality and all the misery we have come to see as business as usual in Iraq these days, the war has crossed another kind of line back home. For months now, in the comic strip "Doonesbury," B.D., the football coach and the Army reservist, has been stationed in Iraq. Somewhere along the line, it stopped being for laughs. Monday, he was wounded. And today, we learned two things about him. After all these years, we learned he has hair under the helmet. And we also learned he'll be going home without his left leg. B.D. made it through Vietnam nearly unscathed. We used to be able to make it through the funny pages unmoved, but not anymore. That's our report for tonight. Good to have you with us. We're back tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are as well.Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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