A Look at Digital Fingerprinting; New Terror Tape; Democratic Presidential Hopefuls Campaign in Iowa
Aired January 5, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening again, everyone.There are in this business what we call must do stories and then there are all the rest. The must do stories are the ones usually at the top of the program, the ones, now listen carefully here, you want to follow this, they are the ones we must do, a terror alert for example, a bin Laden tape, that sort of thing.We have our share of must do stories tonight and then there are the others. For example, Pete Rose, Pete Rose finally ended one of sports great mysteries and admitted he bet on baseball. OK. It wasn't a mystery. You knew it. I knew it. Baseball knew it. Pete just wouldn't admit it but now he has.So here's the question. Do you think Pete has seen the light, found religion if you will or do you think Pete has decided Plan A, denial, didn't work very well, time to try Plan B? We'll get to Pete a little bit later.The must dos come first. We begin with the whip of course and the latest effort to track potential terrorists and others entering the country. Bob Franken with that, Bob a headline from you.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the good news, Aaron, is that this digital fingerprinting leaves no ink smudges, but the bad news is that in this time of terrorism the extraordinary security has become ordinary -- Aaron.
BROWN: Bob, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.Now to the tape, the voice, and what the experts think it's all about. CNN's Mike Boettcher working it from Atlanta, Mike a headline from you.
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, terrorism experts say it is proof of life, bin Laden lives, but does it also signal an impending attack? We'll discuss that coming up -- Aaron.BROWN: Mike, thank you.Next to Iowa in January where it's only hot if you're running for president or perhaps covering the race, which Candy Crowley is, so Candy a headline from Des Moines.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, we had six of the nine presidential candidates campaigning in Iowa today as though their campaigns depended on it and, in fact, some of them may just two weeks left -- Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you, Candy. We'll get to you.And, finally, hard not to be amazed by this pictures from Mars, CNN's Miles O'Brien covering of course, so Miles a headline.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, so many rocks, so little time. Scientists here at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena trying to figure out which direction to point their $400 million robotic geology lab, we'll tell you how they're trying to figure it out.BROWN: Miles, thank you. We'll get to you and the rest shortly.Also ahead on this Monday night edition of NEWSNIGHT, how far did CBS go to get the Michael Jackson interview and was there any connection with Jackson's musical special?Segment 7 tonight, Pete Rose as we said, he finally admits to betting on baseball but will it get him out of the dog house and back into the clubhouse?And with his holiday celebrations well behind him the rooster is back with a full plate of your morning papers for Tuesday, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight at the airport, the hub if you will of the new normal. For six days running now a British Airways flight from London has either been delayed or canceled out of fear the bad guys, real bad guys might be on it. And, today the federal government began taking steps, some would argue flawed steps, to beef up security once international visitors arrive, reporting for us tonight CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): The program has the benign name U.S. Visit but it is the latest high tech brave new world response to the fearful new world of post 9/11 terrorism.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: U.S. Visit will not be kind to those who think that privacy can hide their hate or their intention to harm.
FRANKEN: The technology is called biometrics. At 115 U.S. airports and 14 seaports foreign visitors will undergo what amounts to a digital fingerprinting and will have their pictures taken as well. The information will be matched against various watch lists and will become part of a permanent record.Twenty-eight nations are excluded. Some of those that are not excluded are not happy. Brazil, for instance, is retaliating by fingerprinting U.S. tourists. But officials insist it is only a minor inconvenience and many who had just undergone the process agreed, even some Brazilian visitors.
PABLO GUZMAN, BRAZILIAN TOURIST: It's just a security issue (unintelligible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's a good idea or I feel more secure to travel now to fly anywhere. It's a good security feature I think.
FRANKEN: But the program is not without its critics.
TIMOTHY EDGAR, ACLU: We're concerned that when the government proposes these kinds of programs that may infringe on people's privacy or civil liberties, fingerprinting people, searching them and so forth that privacy not be an afterthought.
FRANKEN: This is happening in stages. Ultimately, homeland security officials hope to expand it to land border entries. They describe the initial test, which began in November at Hartsfield- Jackson Airport in Atlanta a complete success.
ROBERT MONEY, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, U.S. VISIT: U.S. Visit matched 21 hits on the FBI's criminal watch list, including those with previous convictions for statutory rape, dangerous drugs, aggravated felonies and several cases of visa fraud.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: The process is digital and fast. Officials say it will add about 15 seconds to the customs and immigration process and add one more tool to the deadly cat and mouse battle of terrorists -- Aaron.
BROWN: I don't honestly expect you to list every country that is covered here but I assume they are the expected countries, Middle East countries, Islamic countries, am I right?
FRANKEN: That's correct. The countries for the most part that are not covered that have a waiver are the countries of what we know as the first world, the European countries, Japan, countries like that but the others they are covered to varying degrees, most of them all together.
BROWN: Bob, thank you very much, Bob Franken in Washington tonight.It says something that we've been on orange alert enough times now, five times, to make some comparisons and to experts and civilians alike this one looks different. In the first place it hasn't ended on the holiday or just after it and with the broadcast of a new tape on Arab TV there's yet another cause for concern.Here again, CNN's Mike Boettcher.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOETTCHER (voice-over): With a voice on the tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera identified by the CIA as likely belonging to Osama bin Laden, the attention of intelligence agencies now turns to analyzing bin Laden's message.
OSAMA BIN LADEN (through translator): There is no dialogue with those except with weapons. Jihad is the only active effective force.
BOETTCHER: In Atlanta today to inaugurate new security procedures for foreigners visiting the United States, Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge said the U.S. counterterrorism community doesn't yet know if the bin Laden message is a signal of an impending attack.
RIDGE: Whether or not one would conclude that any attacks subsequent were triggered by this announcement I think would be fairly speculative. I'm not sure that we'll find anything in this announcement that suggests that but perhaps the intelligence community will.
BOETTCHER: Bin Laden is believed by American and allied counterterrorist agencies to be hiding along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border in a remote region known as the tribal areas.Top U.S. counterterrorism officials believe the new audio tape indicates bin Laden is feeling the pressure of the U.S. war against al Qaeda. The intelligence community will try to measure how much pressure bin Laden is feeling using voice stress analysis, according to CNN National Security Analyst Ken Robinson.
KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: To determine what type of duress he's under right now because there are many in the intelligence community that believe he is on his heels and he is on the run.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOETTCHER: On the run but still on the loose, even as the hunt for bin Laden since 9/11 is in its third year -- Aaron.
BROWN: I'm dying to know what makes -- I hope they're right but what makes them think that he is feeling the heat?
BOETTCHER: Well, people who have listened to the tape I've spoken to feel that there is a certain stress in his voice that he doesn't sound healthy and also, again, there is no video of him which indicates to them that he doesn't look very well and is in deep hiding somewhere but all of that is speculation right now supported by some scattered intelligence.
BROWN: Well, there's no question he's in deep hiding and one could argue that there are -- just stop me when you disagree and I know you will.
BOETTCHER: Yes, I always do.
BROWN: I know you do. And one could argue there are lots of reasons why not to make a videotape. It's a lot more cumbersome to make a television tape than it is to make an audio tape so that in and of itself is hardly conclusive, fair enough?
BOETTCHER: Fair enough.
BROWN: OK.
BOETTCHER: But -- but go ahead.BROWN: No, you go ahead. It's your story.
BOETTCHER: Well, no, no, but there is a really strong believe that he is not very well right now and that video of him would show him as a weaker man than he would have been let's say before 9/11.
BROWN: OK. Well, again, I think it would be nice to see the tape and then we'd know. In the meantime, we'll listen to the intelligence people and hope they're right. Thank you, Mike Boettcher. He's in Atlanta tonight.
BOETTCHER: OK, Aaron
.BROWN: On now to Mars, millions of miles from earth and orange alerts and all the rest. NASA's Spirit rover is gearing up for a remarkable, remarkable three month adventure. The spacecraft nailed its risky landing on Saturday night, nearly flawless according to NASA.Soon the rover is expected to start beaming home its first color pictures of the Red Planet. In a day and time when we often seem immune to amazement this is out of this world. Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ART THOMPSON, MARS MISSION TEAM: I'd like to start off by saying, wow.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): And so would we. NASA's Spirit rover is sitting pretty in the middle of a Martian crater 100 million miles away swiveling its eagle eyed head, looking for places to go and rocks to reconnoiter, all the while checking in like a homesick child.
THOMPSON: Once again in this instance reality has far surpassed fantasy, all the years of working and dreaming about getting this vehicle on the surface and the last seven months of practicing operations it's just too easy to operate it.
O'BRIEN: Easy as it may seem it comes on the heels of Saturday's death defying plunge into the Martian atmosphere which beat the odds. Spirit arrived with parachute, rockets and air bags blazing seven months after launch, four years after NASA's last Martian lander cratered after the agency cut too many corners. This time they tripled the budget and built a twin rover set to reach Mars in three weeks.
STEVE SQUYRES, SPIRIT CHIEF SCIENTIST: To finally see our dreams come true on another world is like nothing I can describe.
O'BRIEN: So now what? The team is combing through images like this to create a road map of where to steer spirit once they put it in gear. They hope the cameras, along with a sensor that measures the heat radiating from rocks, will lead them to proof this is an ancient lake bed.
MATT GOLOMBEK, MARS MISSION SCIENTIST: This is like, you know, your eyes only more so in that you can look around this whole scene and decide what's important. You got a whole bunch of rocks. Now which one is the really key one to go look at?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: So the question is which rocks to go after. Before they make a move they will take a look at the much higher resolution color images which are being beamed in even as we speak and they'll look at a device which actually measures the heat signature of the rocks and can identify which ones might hold some clues as to where the water went -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, first of all I can't imagine a more exciting place anywhere in the universe to be than where you are. What are the concerns...
O'BRIEN: Well, except for Mars.
BROWN: Well, we'll just have to wait on that one.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BROWN: What are the concerns now? Obviously the most complicated part of this getting it there is over. What are they nervous about?
O'BRIEN: Well, you know, each and every step holds all kinds of problems for them but clearly that six minutes of hell as they like to call it on Saturday night, the landing, was the part that worried them the most. At this point it becomes issues with communication. Are the antennas working? Are those solar panels operating properly? But in most every case they have workarounds, back-up antennas and that sort of thing so that the all or nothing aspect of it has kind of been erased by the fact that they're safe and sound on the surface.
BROWN: And when will we see the next batch or the first batch of color pictures?
O'BRIEN: Tomorrow morning we're going to see the first batch of color. These are huge, huge images. Anybody who's waited on the Internet for an image to download can appreciate what it's like trying to sip from a soda straw this ocean worth of images up there but we're going to get a little piece of this color panorama tomorrow morning and we'll put it on as soon as we get it.
BROWN: Miles, thank you very much, Miles O'Brien covering Mars tonight, not bad work.Ahead on the program the fight over the ad that never aired, a made-up commercial equating President Bush with Adolf Hitler. It has Republicans up in arms and an activist group on the defensive.CBS on the defensive as well as questions are raised about whether it paid in some form or another for an exclusive interview with Michael Jackson.This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It wouldn't be a campaign year without accusations of unfair and unseemly political ads and this year, early as it is, is not exception but there's a twist to the story tonight. The ads in question are part of a contest sponsored by Moveon.org, a Web site devoted to grassroots political activism with a decidedly left wing edge.The site is calling the contest "Bush in 30 Seconds," the concept adds of the people, by the people, for the people, what controversy it has set off. Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two ads comparing George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler have a darling of the left on the defensive. In the eye of the storm, Moveon.org, a liberal interest group which sponsored a contest to produce a commercial that "tells the truth about George W. Bush and his policies." They received more than 1,500 submissions. The Hitler ads were two of them.The commercials which did not air on television and were taken off the Move On Web site caught the eye of the RNC, which promptly posted them at the top of its own Web site and launched a full out attack on Move On.
ED GILLESPIE, RNC CHAIRMAN: This is a furtherance of that political hate speech.
WOODRUFF: Move On contends the commercials were two of many hundred submitted for consideration and that their thinking is far more in line with the 15 finalists like this spot.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
WOODRUFF: Or this one...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll call myself an environmentalist then gut clean air standards.
WOODRUFF: Moveon.org released the following statement: "We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret that they slipped through our screening process." Another chapter in a campaign that's sure to take more nasty turns before it's over.Judy Woodruff, CNN reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: On to Iowa now where the first presidential nominating contest, the Iowa Caucuses, take place in just two weeks and in a debate last night sponsored by the "Des Moines Register" seven of the nine Democratic candidates shared the stage. Howard Dean of course leading in the polls, leading in the fund-raising took a lot of heat from his opponents. Today he got a bit of help from his friends.Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): Two more weeks, one more endorsement.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't talk about this. How about -- no, I can't talk about this.
CROWLEY: That Cheshire cat grin on his face was confirmation enough, though later the campaign made it official. Former Senator Bill Bradley will endorse Howard Dean. Dean's rivals accentuated the positive. Bradley does not vote in Iowa.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the end, it isn't endorsements that win this. It is the people's vote and these folks here are very independent and they make their own judgment about who they want to vote for.
CROWLEY: Still, Bradley's endorsement gives Dean a clean sweep of party big names from 2000, former rivals Bradley and Al Gore, and it puts another dab of mainstream patina on Dean's campaign.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Guys, get out of the cold. You're crazy.
CROWLEY: There is little the not-Deans can do except push on through the dwindling days, the snow, and single digit temps hoping to catch fire.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are you ready for this fight? I am so ready for this fight. I have been prepared for this fight my entire life. You have got to give me a shot at George W. Bush I say to the people of Iowa.
CROWLEY: They're playing to their strong suits now. Edwards, the one time personal injury lawyer with the modest roots sells his connection with regular people. They're all hoping to reel in the undecideds and to soften Dean's support.Kerry pushes his experience.
KERRY: On January 19th when you go to that caucus don't just go there to send America a message, go there to send America a president of the United States.CROWLEY: Gephardt who has more to lose than anyone in the Iowa Caucuses sells his Midwest roots as he stirs his union base.
GEPHARDT: I'm the only candidate in this race who has been there. I'm from the Show Me State. I don't talk it. I do it and I'll be there.
CROWLEY: Meanwhile, Wesley Clark who opted out of Iowa talked taxes in tax phobic New Hampshire.
WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It will overhaul our tax system so that all Americans will pay their fair share. It will reduce poverty. It will encourage families to work and save so that we can be a richer, more prosperous nation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: It is just over three weeks until New Hampshire but by the time all the '04s arrive in that state surely Iowa will have changed the landscape -- Aaron.BROWN: Does anybody that you run into feel like a surprise is in the works?
CROWLEY: Well, you know, I think almost everybody wouldn't be surprised if there were a surprise.
BROWN: Yes.
CROWLEY: Does that answer your question? Look, you know, it's tough, Aaron, as you know because the polls here don't mean -- mean even less than most other polls because it's hard to tell who's going to go to a caucus. So, we really don't have a good grip on who's there. All you can do is go around and you look at the audiences that they're drawing. You look at the passion and you try to extrapolate but you're looking at 200 of, you know, 100,000 that may vote so it's really hard to put that all together. So, I think the potential for a surprise is there but no one's actually predicting a surprise except for, of course, everyone who's not Dean and is running.
BROWN: Is it freezing there?
CROWLEY: It is so cold here, yes, and we had a snowstorm yesterday too.
BROWN: See you in a couple weeks.
CROWLEY: OK.
BROWN: See you in a couple weeks. Thank you, Candy.A few more stories making news around the country, we begin in Missouri, a crucial campaign state for the president to be sure. He was there today raising campaign money and promoting education reforms, the reforms passed by the Congress two years ago this week. Critics contend the No Child Left Behind Act is at the very least under funded and in some respects not well thought out.On to Washington State, the Agriculture Department said today it will kill 450 bull calves on a single farm there. The herd includes the offspring of the dairy cow that last month tested positive for mad cow disease. The calf wasn't tagged at birth making it impossible to single it out now, hence all of those calves will die.And a minor victory for radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh today, a Florida judge ruled that Mr. Limbaugh's medical records will remain off limits to prosecutors for at least another 15 days while his attorneys pursue an appeal to permanently seal the medical records. Mr. Limbaugh is under investigation for doctor shopping to obtain illegal -- to obtain legal prescription drugs.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT from a life sentence to possible freedom, a boy who was sent to prison for life without parole makes a deal that could get him out of prison at least in weeks, that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Sixteen-year-old Lionel Tate marked the first weekend of 2004 by signing a piece of paper that will transform his life. His name is familiar by now. The Florida boy sentenced to life in prison without parole when he was 14 for a murder he committed when he was just 12.Last month an appeals court in Florida ruled he should get a new trial. Prosecutors offered a plea bargain instead and yesterday young Lionel signed it in a case that has inspired outrage and horror came full circle.Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her permission wasn't legally necessary but now that Lionel Tate's mother has given her blessing to by all accounts a generous plea deal he could be set free before the end of the month.
KATHLEEN GROSSETT-TATE, MOTHER: My son wants to come home and I want him home. I'm tired of driving up here every weekend.
CANDIOTTI: Three years ago, Tate's mother, a Florida Highway Patrol trooper, rejected the same deal the first time it was offered before the trial.
TATE: Lionel is still a child and we have to talk about it.
CANDIOTTI: Sixteen-year-old Tate was 12 when he beat to death neighbor Tiffany Eunick while his mother slept upstairs. Evidence showed 6-year-old Tiffany was struck at least 35 times, her liver dislodged, her skull fractured. An attorney for Lionel's mother...
HENRY HUNTER, MOTHER'S ATTORNEY: Lionel has plenty of psychological help and this is a daily concern of his of what happened to Tiffany and he's remorseful for it.
CANDIOTTI: Under the plea deal, Tate agrees to a so-called best interest guilty plea to second degree murder. That means, his lawyer says, he can still claim his innocence. His mother maintains Tiffany's death was an accident, unacceptable according to the former prosecutor who now represents the victim's mother.
KEN PADOWITZ, FORMER PROSECUTOR: That ignores the appellate court's own Opinion when they reversed this case that indicated that this was a brutal slaying and that the evidence was clear that this was a brutal slaying.TATE: If they could have changed it to manslaughter then I would have felt better and the fact that he's going to be on house arrest. When he was on house arrest before they made out lives very miserable.
CANDIOTTI: Tate faces a year under house arrest followed by ten years of probation and counseling. He enters his new plea in a few weeks. Two mothers, his and his victim's, will be watching.Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Before we go to break a quick look at our money line roundup. Martha Stewart starts it off. Here we go.Jury selection begins tomorrow in her obstruction of justice trial, the process does at least. Potential jurors will be asked to fill out a questionnaire to help lawyers decide who gets to hear the case. The two sides will take the next couple of weeks to figure out the questions. Ms. Stewart makes her first court appearance or her next one on the 20th.Detroit next where the headline reads "cars are front and center at this year's North American International Auto Show," that's cars, not SUVs. The new Corvette, the Ford 500, the Pontiac G-6 just to name a few, all this with the Big Three coming off a lousy year in profits and sales.And Wall Street on the other hand had a socko day with market watchers looking forward to a solid week, the Dow Industrials up 134 and a quarter points.Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, was there a quid pro quo? CBS answers criticism and that it got an interview with Michael Jackson by paying him more for an entertainment special.Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There's a fundamental rule of journalism and a cornerstone of every reporter's credibility: You do not pay for a story. You don't pay no matter how good, how big, how important the story might be. This is the rule and every time or any time it's broken, it's a black eye for journalism. So, even if the worst of the allegations are not true, there are still questions about the relationship between CBS Entertainment and News and giant media conglomerates that's been created by the Michael Jackson case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): First, a little background. When Michael Jackson was arrested on child molestation charges in November, CBS Entertainment indefinitely postponed an upcoming network special reportedly worth millions of dollars to the beleaguered singer and presumably to the network as well. But, after Jackson was interviewed by CBS' Ed Bradley on "60 Minutes," the special aired five days later. Now comes "The New York Times," quoting sources claiming that this was, in reality, a deal, that, in addition to getting his special aired, Michael Jackson received more money up front from CBS's entertainment division. And Jackson's attorney said -- quote -- "It was fair" -- unquote -- to say the airing of the special may have helped convince his client, Michael Jackson, to sit down with "60 Minutes."A CBS News spokesman, however, reaffirmed that they never pay for interviews. And today, Don Hewitt, the veteran executive producer of "60 Minutes," said, quote -- "The Michael Jackson interview fell in our laps with no strings attached, no ground rules, nothing off- limits. For 'The Times' to even hint that anything untoward occurred with this interview is shocking."So, while there is a dispute over whether CBS paid Jackson directly for the interview, the network does acknowledge that it demanded Michael Jackson answer the charges against him on a CBS news program before it would agree to air the special.
TIM RUTTEN, "THE L.A. TIMES": Don Hewitt's denials notwithstanding, what occurred here was that CBS traded an entertainment special to Michael Jackson for an interview on "60 Minutes." That's quid pro quo. That's a transaction. And whether or not CBS and "60 Minutes" choose to call it a payment, in fact, it is a form of compensation and, in fact, it is a form of checkbook journalism.
BROWN: University of California dean of journalism Dean Orville Schell says, it wasn't worth the price, any price.
ORVILLE SCHELL, DEAN OF JOURNALISM, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA: You have to say, is it worthwhile to base the reputation of the network by even the imputation of having bought such an interview, never mind the actual subtleties of the case?BROWN: In the end both, programs did well in the ratings. So, even if CBS News didn't actually pay for the program, it certainly benefited from this complicated and, to some, unsettling transaction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Howie Kurtz joins us know, as he often does when we take a look at ourselves, at media stories. Mr. Kurtz writes about media for "The Washington Post" and does a program here as well. It's nice to see you. Do you think CBS, by the way, has debased its reputation?
HOWARD KURTZ, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Well, I think CBS used to be above this sort of thing. I make no criticism of "60 Minutes," Aaron. I think Ed Bradley and company played it straight trying to get an interview that everybody in television wanted to get.But a CBS executive told me the day that the news of this interview surfaced that they made it very clear to Jackson's representatives, the nice little musical special you got here, if you want it to air, he's got to give an interview. No interview, no music special, a music special in which Jackson was listed as an executive producer and which brought millions of dollars -- the exact figure in dispute -- to Michael Jackson. BROWN: And, presumably, CBS made some money on the deal as well?
KURTZ: Networks are not usually in the business of losing money on putting on entertainment specials.
BROWN: Right. Pretty much the way this stuff works. If no money changed hands -- that is to say -- this is where it gets complicated -- setting the entertainment special and what CBS paid for that, assuming no other money changed hands, did CBS do anything wrong?
KURTZ: I would still feel uncomfortable about it. And, of course, money did change hands. And it is checkbook journalism, even if the money comes from a different checkbook, that of the CBS Entertainment division.But even if there was no money involved, CBS used its leverage as a corporation, dangling this thing that Jackson very much wanted, something to help jump-start his struggling music career, this special, in order to get that interview. And I've written a lot about various networks dancing around, doing a two-step around these kinds of restrictions. They don't want to pay for interviews directly, so, sometimes they buy the pictures or home videos or they pay the middleman or they put up the guest in a nice hotel in New York for a week. This is about the clearest-cut case I've seen in a long time.
BROWN: And just a quick one. Is there any way anything like this could happen in the newspaper business?
KURTZ: Interesting question. Newspapers are -- you know, newspapers are pretty adamant, except for tabloid newspapers, of course, about not paying for interviews, not paying for information. But, of course, newspapers buy pictures. Magazines buy pictures. "People" magazine has sometimes paid large sums for pictures from newsworthy persons, which can sometimes be a backdoor way of securing that interview or that cover story that everybody wants.
BROWN: I want to go back. There's a little devil's advocate here, but let me go back to the CBS argument, which actually makes some sense, that there is no way for CBS Entertainment to run that special -- and I'm sure it was -- unless there was first Michael Jackson talking about his arrest, because that is, as the spokesman said, the elephant in the room.
KURTZ: Well, I can understand CBS Entertainment's point of view, that the special can't go on the air without some accounting.But, at the same time, they made quite clear, the negotiations, this was kind of used as a club to bludgeon Jackson into giving this interview. And CBS, interestingly enough, has gotten very aggressive about this, owned by Viacom. It was just earlier this year that, in the effort to get the Jessica Lynch interview, the interview of that season that everybody wanted, Viacom, CBS, an executives wrote a letter offering a Simon & Schuster book deal, an MTV special, the obligatory made-for-TV movie, everything but her own Comedy Central show.So, I guess we're in an age, with all of these big networks now owned by mega-corporations, in which they are going to use all their assets, entertainment and news, in trying to land these interviews. And that kind of obliterates the line that we used to have between news division and the entertainment side.
BROWN: Is it fair to think of CBS News and "60 Minutes" as a victim in this?
KURTZ: I think, to some degree, it is fair, because I have no indication that Ed Bradley and "60 Minutes" did anything other than pursue -- it had been pursuing for about a year an obviously newsworthy interview with a world-famous pop star under investigation, under arrest for child molestation charges. Along comes the other part of the corporation, has this little conversation, makes this deal, which does happen to involve millions of dollars, and, by implication, the CBS News division looks bad, even though I don't think they did anything wrong. But CBS, as a company, as a corporation, has to be held accountable for the fact that they mixed these two things that probably ought not to be mixed. But I'm afraid -- I've seen other networks dance around the restrictions.
BROWN: Yes.
KURTZ: Everybody likes to say they don't pay for news, but you know what? They often seem to find a way.
BROWN: They do. And the bigger these companies get, I think, in some ways, the more complicated it gets.Howie, it's good to see you. Thank you.
KURTZ: Thanks, Aaron.
BROWN: Howie Kurtz of CNN and of "The Washington Post" as well. A few more quick items from around the world, starting in Brussels, where a two-week campaign of letter bomb attacks has yet to let up. Three arrived today, each addressed to members of the European Parliament. Two went off, no one hurt. Authorities suspect an Italian extremist group is behind the bombings. French divers continue their search in the Red Sea for the remnants of an Egyptian airliner that went down over the weekend. They've deployed electronic sensors to home in on the 737's flight recorders, which they hope will shed some light on the cause of the crash; 148 people, most of them French citizens, died shortly after takeoff. Both the Egyptian and the French governments are downplaying the possibility of terrorism. There are, however, serious questions about the mechanical condition of the plane and its history. And having confirmed the first new case of SARS this year, the Chinese government today began slaughtering the animal believed to spread the disease. About 10,000 cats will be destroyed. If you're concerned about animal welfare, you ought to know that these particular cats weren't going anywhere anyway. They were bound for the dinner table. Yikes. They're considered a delicacy in that part of China. As NEWSNIGHT continues, the Pete Rose gamble. Will admitting he bet on baseball get his lifelong ban lifted? A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Even the biggest fans of the game will concede this about baseball: It doesn't take a saint to play it. If you can run or hit or throw a ball and do it well, you can also be a real jerk. You can be a blowhard, a racist, a drunk, a drug user, worse. And many baseball players have, from the dugout to the Hall of Fame. But tonight, Pete Rose is in neither place tonight, though he badly wants to be, because, in spite of getting more hits than any player in baseball history, he also violated just about the only rule there is. He bet on baseball. And to anyone who asked him, he lied.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Fourteen years out of baseball, Pete Rose now admits he lied about the one thing that mattered most.
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS: You have always denied publicly that you bet on baseball. Did you bet on baseball?
PETE ROSE, FORMER MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER: Yes, I did. And that was my mistake, not coming clean a lot earlier.
BROWN: The admission and contrition is not without purpose. Rose is selling a new book and he is desperately trying to get back into baseball's good graces. He was banned from the game and banned from the Hall of Fame in 1989, after baseball's investigation into his gambling, some of which he admitted. But he always denied, always denied, betting on baseball.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSE: I'm happy to look into the camera now and say, I never bet on baseball and I never bet on Cincinnati Red baseball.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But, in his new book, he says he confessed his gambling on baseball to the present commissioner, Bud Selig, in a meeting the two had 14 months ago. "Yes, sir, I did bet on baseball," Rose writes in his book." "How often?" the commissioner asks, to which Rose responds, "Four or five times, a week.
"TOM KEEGAN, ESPN RADIO: Well, Pete's got an agenda here, obviously. He wants to get back in. He's tried the denial for 14 years. That didn't work. He's going to try a new avenue here.
BROWN: When he played the game, Pete Rose was superb. He broke baseball's all-time hit record in 1985, the same year, according to baseball's investigation, that he began betting on the game.
KEEGAN: I think Pete is such a cocky guy, such an arrogant guy, that he thinks that this will work. He thinks this angle is going to get him back in. He's the most engaging guy in the world. He's so easy to like. He makes people laugh so easily, that I'm sure he thinks that this is a popularity contest, and he never loses a popularity contest. And I think he's wrong about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, you can spend the night at the bar batting that one back and forth. Earlier today, we spent some time on it with "Sports Illustrated" senior baseball writer Tom Verducci.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: If it were not for the fact that Mr. Rose wants something from baseball, to get back in, do you believe he would admit anything?
TOM VERDUCCI, SENIOR WRITER, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": No. There would be no need for it. A couple things are very important to Pete Rose right now, getting into the Hall of Fame and getting back into a Major League dugout, preferably as a manager, perhaps as a coach. Whether that's his sole motivation or not, I don't know. Only Pete Rose knows that in his heart. But those two things are at the top of his agenda right now, at the age of 62.
BROWN: Did you ever sit down with Mr. Rose and say, did you bet on baseball?
VERDUCCI: I have not personally on a one-on-one basis, no. I remember that summer of '89, where the question came up time and time again.
BROWN: I remember sitting with him. I don't remember what he was -- he had just signed some deal with some Web site or something, so he was out doing interviews. I said, "You ever bet on baseball?" He said, "No." I said: "Come on. Everyone knows you did. I read the Dowd report. Everyone knows you bet on baseball. Did you ever bet on baseball?" "Absolutely Not. Anyone who says that is a liar."
VERDUCCI: Well, put yourselves in the shoes of Roger Kahn, very respected baseball journalist, wrote a book with Pete in 1989 titled "Pete Rose: My Story."
BROWN: Yes.
VERDUCCI: Roger looked him in the eye, he says, 20 times, and says, did you bet on baseball? And Pete said: "No. I would never do that. I respect the game too much to bet on baseball."
BROWN: You've read the book. I haven't. Does he understand why betting on baseball is a sin?
VERDUCCI: I don't think he gets that, Aaron, and I think that's something that's going to bother the commissioner. I think the commissioner wants to see that Pete Rose understands what he did goes beyond himself, that this really tears at the fabric, the integrity of the game. And Pete Rose takes more of a defensive posture, in that: Hey, I wasn't using drugs. Darryl Strawberry, Steve Howe gets six chances. You want to throw me out for life, and I never bet against the Reds to lose. He clearly draws a line between compromising the game, betting against the game to team to lose and getting against his own team to win. So it's a defensive posture in which he makes this admission.
BROWN: All of this ends up now in the commissioner's lap. Where is the pressure coming to do something? Why does he have to do anything?
VERDUCCI: Well, he doesn't have to do anything, but...
BROWN: But there is this sense that he does have to do something.
VERDUCCI: There clearly is.And part of that reason is because he sent signals to the Rose people that nothing would happen unless you came forward and admitted you bet on baseball and the Reds. OK, now Pete Rose taken that step. Pete is under the impression -- given the fact that he did admit to Bud Selig 14 months ago he bet on the Reds, he's under the impression now that he is on that reinstatement track, that they're starting down the road, however slowly. There's also pressure on the other side from Bud from people who are in the Hall of Fame, living Hall of Famers, many of whom have told Bud privately, and some publicly, they want nothing to do with the Hall of Fame if Pete Rose is a part of it. And that is pressure on Bud Selig, because bringing Pete Rose back, putting him on the ballot for the baseball writers probably means Pete gets in. And he risks alienating some of the icons of the game.
BROWN: Who?
VERDUCCI: Well, you're talking about people like Bob Feller and some of the greatest names in the business, who have a problem with what Pete did.
BROWN: Does he not, he also has people within the game and within the Hall of Fame, I gather, that believe that, if he simply tells the truth, at least the Hall of Fame part of his sentence ought to be lifted?
VERDUCCI: There is definitely that feeling. And I think that's a distinction that not enough people draw, that there's a difference between the institution of baseball and a brick building in Cooperstown, New York, that houses baseball's history and greatest players. There's a big difference there, because what Pete Rose did as a manager of the Reds did compromise the integrity of the game. But what he did on the field, I don't think anybody would argue that's Hall of Fame caliber.
BROWN: You're the commissioner of baseball. You've read the book. You've talked to Pete Rose. Do you believe he's reformed?
VERDUCCI: He's reformed to some extent. Now, if you go by Pete's own definition of reformed, that means he's no longer dealing with bookmakers -- his bets are now made legally, not illegally -- that and he's not going to the racetrack as often as he did in the past. What would scare me if I'm the commissioner is, this is someone who has shown me compulsive gambling habits. He risked and lost his professional livelihood because he could not stop himself from gambling.Is that someone I want to trust who's out there now continuing to gamble, going to racetracks? I know racetracks are legal. But bars are legal, but do you want to see an alcoholic walk into one?
BROWN: Yes. It's already the stir of the week, I think. And it's a great story. It's good to see you again. It's nice, in early January, to be able to talk baseball.
VERDUCCI: It is. It's a fascinating topic and will continue to be.
BROWN: Thank you. Good to see you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Tom Verducci of "Sports Illustrated."We'll take a look at morning papers after the break
.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: All right. I am so into this. Time to check the morning papers from around the country and around the world. They're a mess today.There's no clear lead anywhere in the world, OK? So we'll start with a couple of tabloids, Australian tabloids. Why not? Because I just thought this story was unbelievably dumb. I don't mean the story, the guy. "Mate, I'll Do it Again." This is the story of the crocodile or the alligator -- I never understood the difference anyway -- crocodile guy who's messing with the crocodile while he's holding his baby. He's doing like a Michael Jackson thing over the balcony. And he says, yes, I'll do it again. They put that all-important Britney Spears story on the front page, the one day -- but they didn't do it as well as "The Daily Telegraph." They've got the whole picture. "Britney Married One Day, Divorcing the Next." Look at that happy couple, and yet they're divorcing. What do you make of that? On to the domestic papers. They can't hold a candle to that, can they? "The Richmond Times-Dispatch." I love this story. This is a really good story. Forget your politics, just a good story. "U.S. Helps Firms Avoid Overtime. Labor Department Suggests How to Avert Payments to Workers." I'm sure there's an explanation for this, because you would think the Labor Department would be helping labor. I just don't get it. Anyway, I'll have to read that. It's an Associated Press story and it leads "The Richmond Times-Dispatch."All right, now a tale of several cities and the Pete Rose story. "The Cincinnati Enquirer." Pete Rose is a God in Cincinnati. And it, of course, is a front-page story there. "He Bet On Baseball. After 14 Years, Rose Admits Cardinal Sins," one of many stories in the "Philadelphia Inquirer" in tomorrow's edition, what the fans say, what the players say, what -- I don't know who the doc is, but what the doc says, all sorts of things, OK? That's "The Cincinnati Enquirer."The Philadelphia Inquirer," they've got a baseball story, too, a sad one, but a good one. Tug McGraw, the Phils, legend, died at 59. He threw the pitches that Philly fans won't forget. This is a very good front-page story. And I'm glad they front-paged it, because it plays really nicely against the Rose admits he bets on baseball story, which is just below it. I'm glad to see Tug McGraw got a front-page and sorry to see that he died. He had been sick for a while. How we doing on time, Terry (ph)?Oh, my goodness. "The Detroit News." "Cars, Cars, Everywhere. Japanese Up Stakes in Hybrid Race. Big Three Lose Ground in '03. Tiny Autos Muscle Weigh Into Spotlight." It's the North American International Auto Show. Otherwise, they wouldn't do auto stories in the Detroit papers, would they? I'll bet it's time. We'll do two more really quickly."Don't Bet On It." Oh, man. "Don't Bet On It" is "The Boston Herald" lead. "Ex-Sidekick: Pete's Not Telling All." Of course he's not. And "The Chicago Sun-Times." "For Pete's Sake, Rose Comes Clean." Weather tomorrow in Chicago is "stone cold." Yikes.We'll wrap it up after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before we go tonight, a quick recap of our top story. New security measures at international airports around the country, starting today, foreigners being photographed and fingerprinted, not all. Canadians, Japanese, most Europeans are exempt, which is causing somewhat of a stir in a number of countries. It also raises concerns among security experts. On the program tomorrow, one man's battle to stop an abortion clinic. This is a very good story. He's fighting it one construction worker at a time, winning hearts where he can, playing a new kind of hardball where he can. That's tomorrow right here on NEWSNIGHT. We hope you'll join us for that, 10:00 Eastern time.For most of you, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.comDemocratic Presidential Hopefuls Campaign in Iowa
Aired January 5, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening again, everyone.There are in this business what we call must do stories and then there are all the rest. The must do stories are the ones usually at the top of the program, the ones, now listen carefully here, you want to follow this, they are the ones we must do, a terror alert for example, a bin Laden tape, that sort of thing.We have our share of must do stories tonight and then there are the others. For example, Pete Rose, Pete Rose finally ended one of sports great mysteries and admitted he bet on baseball. OK. It wasn't a mystery. You knew it. I knew it. Baseball knew it. Pete just wouldn't admit it but now he has.So here's the question. Do you think Pete has seen the light, found religion if you will or do you think Pete has decided Plan A, denial, didn't work very well, time to try Plan B? We'll get to Pete a little bit later.The must dos come first. We begin with the whip of course and the latest effort to track potential terrorists and others entering the country. Bob Franken with that, Bob a headline from you.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the good news, Aaron, is that this digital fingerprinting leaves no ink smudges, but the bad news is that in this time of terrorism the extraordinary security has become ordinary -- Aaron.
BROWN: Bob, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.Now to the tape, the voice, and what the experts think it's all about. CNN's Mike Boettcher working it from Atlanta, Mike a headline from you.
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, terrorism experts say it is proof of life, bin Laden lives, but does it also signal an impending attack? We'll discuss that coming up -- Aaron.BROWN: Mike, thank you.Next to Iowa in January where it's only hot if you're running for president or perhaps covering the race, which Candy Crowley is, so Candy a headline from Des Moines.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, we had six of the nine presidential candidates campaigning in Iowa today as though their campaigns depended on it and, in fact, some of them may just two weeks left -- Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you, Candy. We'll get to you.And, finally, hard not to be amazed by this pictures from Mars, CNN's Miles O'Brien covering of course, so Miles a headline.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, so many rocks, so little time. Scientists here at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena trying to figure out which direction to point their $400 million robotic geology lab, we'll tell you how they're trying to figure it out.BROWN: Miles, thank you. We'll get to you and the rest shortly.Also ahead on this Monday night edition of NEWSNIGHT, how far did CBS go to get the Michael Jackson interview and was there any connection with Jackson's musical special?Segment 7 tonight, Pete Rose as we said, he finally admits to betting on baseball but will it get him out of the dog house and back into the clubhouse?And with his holiday celebrations well behind him the rooster is back with a full plate of your morning papers for Tuesday, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight at the airport, the hub if you will of the new normal. For six days running now a British Airways flight from London has either been delayed or canceled out of fear the bad guys, real bad guys might be on it. And, today the federal government began taking steps, some would argue flawed steps, to beef up security once international visitors arrive, reporting for us tonight CNN's Bob Franken.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): The program has the benign name U.S. Visit but it is the latest high tech brave new world response to the fearful new world of post 9/11 terrorism.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: U.S. Visit will not be kind to those who think that privacy can hide their hate or their intention to harm.
FRANKEN: The technology is called biometrics. At 115 U.S. airports and 14 seaports foreign visitors will undergo what amounts to a digital fingerprinting and will have their pictures taken as well. The information will be matched against various watch lists and will become part of a permanent record.Twenty-eight nations are excluded. Some of those that are not excluded are not happy. Brazil, for instance, is retaliating by fingerprinting U.S. tourists. But officials insist it is only a minor inconvenience and many who had just undergone the process agreed, even some Brazilian visitors.
PABLO GUZMAN, BRAZILIAN TOURIST: It's just a security issue (unintelligible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's a good idea or I feel more secure to travel now to fly anywhere. It's a good security feature I think.
FRANKEN: But the program is not without its critics.
TIMOTHY EDGAR, ACLU: We're concerned that when the government proposes these kinds of programs that may infringe on people's privacy or civil liberties, fingerprinting people, searching them and so forth that privacy not be an afterthought.
FRANKEN: This is happening in stages. Ultimately, homeland security officials hope to expand it to land border entries. They describe the initial test, which began in November at Hartsfield- Jackson Airport in Atlanta a complete success.
ROBERT MONEY, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, U.S. VISIT: U.S. Visit matched 21 hits on the FBI's criminal watch list, including those with previous convictions for statutory rape, dangerous drugs, aggravated felonies and several cases of visa fraud.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: The process is digital and fast. Officials say it will add about 15 seconds to the customs and immigration process and add one more tool to the deadly cat and mouse battle of terrorists -- Aaron.
BROWN: I don't honestly expect you to list every country that is covered here but I assume they are the expected countries, Middle East countries, Islamic countries, am I right?
FRANKEN: That's correct. The countries for the most part that are not covered that have a waiver are the countries of what we know as the first world, the European countries, Japan, countries like that but the others they are covered to varying degrees, most of them all together.
BROWN: Bob, thank you very much, Bob Franken in Washington tonight.It says something that we've been on orange alert enough times now, five times, to make some comparisons and to experts and civilians alike this one looks different. In the first place it hasn't ended on the holiday or just after it and with the broadcast of a new tape on Arab TV there's yet another cause for concern.Here again, CNN's Mike Boettcher.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOETTCHER (voice-over): With a voice on the tape broadcast by Al-Jazeera identified by the CIA as likely belonging to Osama bin Laden, the attention of intelligence agencies now turns to analyzing bin Laden's message.
OSAMA BIN LADEN (through translator): There is no dialogue with those except with weapons. Jihad is the only active effective force.
BOETTCHER: In Atlanta today to inaugurate new security procedures for foreigners visiting the United States, Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge said the U.S. counterterrorism community doesn't yet know if the bin Laden message is a signal of an impending attack.
RIDGE: Whether or not one would conclude that any attacks subsequent were triggered by this announcement I think would be fairly speculative. I'm not sure that we'll find anything in this announcement that suggests that but perhaps the intelligence community will.
BOETTCHER: Bin Laden is believed by American and allied counterterrorist agencies to be hiding along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border in a remote region known as the tribal areas.Top U.S. counterterrorism officials believe the new audio tape indicates bin Laden is feeling the pressure of the U.S. war against al Qaeda. The intelligence community will try to measure how much pressure bin Laden is feeling using voice stress analysis, according to CNN National Security Analyst Ken Robinson.
KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: To determine what type of duress he's under right now because there are many in the intelligence community that believe he is on his heels and he is on the run.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOETTCHER: On the run but still on the loose, even as the hunt for bin Laden since 9/11 is in its third year -- Aaron.
BROWN: I'm dying to know what makes -- I hope they're right but what makes them think that he is feeling the heat?
BOETTCHER: Well, people who have listened to the tape I've spoken to feel that there is a certain stress in his voice that he doesn't sound healthy and also, again, there is no video of him which indicates to them that he doesn't look very well and is in deep hiding somewhere but all of that is speculation right now supported by some scattered intelligence.
BROWN: Well, there's no question he's in deep hiding and one could argue that there are -- just stop me when you disagree and I know you will.
BOETTCHER: Yes, I always do.
BROWN: I know you do. And one could argue there are lots of reasons why not to make a videotape. It's a lot more cumbersome to make a television tape than it is to make an audio tape so that in and of itself is hardly conclusive, fair enough?
BOETTCHER: Fair enough.
BROWN: OK.
BOETTCHER: But -- but go ahead.BROWN: No, you go ahead. It's your story.
BOETTCHER: Well, no, no, but there is a really strong believe that he is not very well right now and that video of him would show him as a weaker man than he would have been let's say before 9/11.
BROWN: OK. Well, again, I think it would be nice to see the tape and then we'd know. In the meantime, we'll listen to the intelligence people and hope they're right. Thank you, Mike Boettcher. He's in Atlanta tonight.
BOETTCHER: OK, Aaron
.BROWN: On now to Mars, millions of miles from earth and orange alerts and all the rest. NASA's Spirit rover is gearing up for a remarkable, remarkable three month adventure. The spacecraft nailed its risky landing on Saturday night, nearly flawless according to NASA.Soon the rover is expected to start beaming home its first color pictures of the Red Planet. In a day and time when we often seem immune to amazement this is out of this world. Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ART THOMPSON, MARS MISSION TEAM: I'd like to start off by saying, wow.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): And so would we. NASA's Spirit rover is sitting pretty in the middle of a Martian crater 100 million miles away swiveling its eagle eyed head, looking for places to go and rocks to reconnoiter, all the while checking in like a homesick child.
THOMPSON: Once again in this instance reality has far surpassed fantasy, all the years of working and dreaming about getting this vehicle on the surface and the last seven months of practicing operations it's just too easy to operate it.
O'BRIEN: Easy as it may seem it comes on the heels of Saturday's death defying plunge into the Martian atmosphere which beat the odds. Spirit arrived with parachute, rockets and air bags blazing seven months after launch, four years after NASA's last Martian lander cratered after the agency cut too many corners. This time they tripled the budget and built a twin rover set to reach Mars in three weeks.
STEVE SQUYRES, SPIRIT CHIEF SCIENTIST: To finally see our dreams come true on another world is like nothing I can describe.
O'BRIEN: So now what? The team is combing through images like this to create a road map of where to steer spirit once they put it in gear. They hope the cameras, along with a sensor that measures the heat radiating from rocks, will lead them to proof this is an ancient lake bed.
MATT GOLOMBEK, MARS MISSION SCIENTIST: This is like, you know, your eyes only more so in that you can look around this whole scene and decide what's important. You got a whole bunch of rocks. Now which one is the really key one to go look at?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: So the question is which rocks to go after. Before they make a move they will take a look at the much higher resolution color images which are being beamed in even as we speak and they'll look at a device which actually measures the heat signature of the rocks and can identify which ones might hold some clues as to where the water went -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, first of all I can't imagine a more exciting place anywhere in the universe to be than where you are. What are the concerns...
O'BRIEN: Well, except for Mars.
BROWN: Well, we'll just have to wait on that one.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BROWN: What are the concerns now? Obviously the most complicated part of this getting it there is over. What are they nervous about?
O'BRIEN: Well, you know, each and every step holds all kinds of problems for them but clearly that six minutes of hell as they like to call it on Saturday night, the landing, was the part that worried them the most. At this point it becomes issues with communication. Are the antennas working? Are those solar panels operating properly? But in most every case they have workarounds, back-up antennas and that sort of thing so that the all or nothing aspect of it has kind of been erased by the fact that they're safe and sound on the surface.
BROWN: And when will we see the next batch or the first batch of color pictures?
O'BRIEN: Tomorrow morning we're going to see the first batch of color. These are huge, huge images. Anybody who's waited on the Internet for an image to download can appreciate what it's like trying to sip from a soda straw this ocean worth of images up there but we're going to get a little piece of this color panorama tomorrow morning and we'll put it on as soon as we get it.
BROWN: Miles, thank you very much, Miles O'Brien covering Mars tonight, not bad work.Ahead on the program the fight over the ad that never aired, a made-up commercial equating President Bush with Adolf Hitler. It has Republicans up in arms and an activist group on the defensive.CBS on the defensive as well as questions are raised about whether it paid in some form or another for an exclusive interview with Michael Jackson.This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It wouldn't be a campaign year without accusations of unfair and unseemly political ads and this year, early as it is, is not exception but there's a twist to the story tonight. The ads in question are part of a contest sponsored by Moveon.org, a Web site devoted to grassroots political activism with a decidedly left wing edge.The site is calling the contest "Bush in 30 Seconds," the concept adds of the people, by the people, for the people, what controversy it has set off. Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two ads comparing George W. Bush to Adolf Hitler have a darling of the left on the defensive. In the eye of the storm, Moveon.org, a liberal interest group which sponsored a contest to produce a commercial that "tells the truth about George W. Bush and his policies." They received more than 1,500 submissions. The Hitler ads were two of them.The commercials which did not air on television and were taken off the Move On Web site caught the eye of the RNC, which promptly posted them at the top of its own Web site and launched a full out attack on Move On.
ED GILLESPIE, RNC CHAIRMAN: This is a furtherance of that political hate speech.
WOODRUFF: Move On contends the commercials were two of many hundred submitted for consideration and that their thinking is far more in line with the 15 finalists like this spot.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.
WOODRUFF: Or this one...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll call myself an environmentalist then gut clean air standards.
WOODRUFF: Moveon.org released the following statement: "We agree that the two ads in question were in poor taste and deeply regret that they slipped through our screening process." Another chapter in a campaign that's sure to take more nasty turns before it's over.Judy Woodruff, CNN reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: On to Iowa now where the first presidential nominating contest, the Iowa Caucuses, take place in just two weeks and in a debate last night sponsored by the "Des Moines Register" seven of the nine Democratic candidates shared the stage. Howard Dean of course leading in the polls, leading in the fund-raising took a lot of heat from his opponents. Today he got a bit of help from his friends.Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): Two more weeks, one more endorsement.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't talk about this. How about -- no, I can't talk about this.
CROWLEY: That Cheshire cat grin on his face was confirmation enough, though later the campaign made it official. Former Senator Bill Bradley will endorse Howard Dean. Dean's rivals accentuated the positive. Bradley does not vote in Iowa.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the end, it isn't endorsements that win this. It is the people's vote and these folks here are very independent and they make their own judgment about who they want to vote for.
CROWLEY: Still, Bradley's endorsement gives Dean a clean sweep of party big names from 2000, former rivals Bradley and Al Gore, and it puts another dab of mainstream patina on Dean's campaign.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Guys, get out of the cold. You're crazy.
CROWLEY: There is little the not-Deans can do except push on through the dwindling days, the snow, and single digit temps hoping to catch fire.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are you ready for this fight? I am so ready for this fight. I have been prepared for this fight my entire life. You have got to give me a shot at George W. Bush I say to the people of Iowa.
CROWLEY: They're playing to their strong suits now. Edwards, the one time personal injury lawyer with the modest roots sells his connection with regular people. They're all hoping to reel in the undecideds and to soften Dean's support.Kerry pushes his experience.
KERRY: On January 19th when you go to that caucus don't just go there to send America a message, go there to send America a president of the United States.CROWLEY: Gephardt who has more to lose than anyone in the Iowa Caucuses sells his Midwest roots as he stirs his union base.
GEPHARDT: I'm the only candidate in this race who has been there. I'm from the Show Me State. I don't talk it. I do it and I'll be there.
CROWLEY: Meanwhile, Wesley Clark who opted out of Iowa talked taxes in tax phobic New Hampshire.
WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It will overhaul our tax system so that all Americans will pay their fair share. It will reduce poverty. It will encourage families to work and save so that we can be a richer, more prosperous nation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: It is just over three weeks until New Hampshire but by the time all the '04s arrive in that state surely Iowa will have changed the landscape -- Aaron.BROWN: Does anybody that you run into feel like a surprise is in the works?
CROWLEY: Well, you know, I think almost everybody wouldn't be surprised if there were a surprise.
BROWN: Yes.
CROWLEY: Does that answer your question? Look, you know, it's tough, Aaron, as you know because the polls here don't mean -- mean even less than most other polls because it's hard to tell who's going to go to a caucus. So, we really don't have a good grip on who's there. All you can do is go around and you look at the audiences that they're drawing. You look at the passion and you try to extrapolate but you're looking at 200 of, you know, 100,000 that may vote so it's really hard to put that all together. So, I think the potential for a surprise is there but no one's actually predicting a surprise except for, of course, everyone who's not Dean and is running.
BROWN: Is it freezing there?
CROWLEY: It is so cold here, yes, and we had a snowstorm yesterday too.
BROWN: See you in a couple weeks.
CROWLEY: OK.
BROWN: See you in a couple weeks. Thank you, Candy.A few more stories making news around the country, we begin in Missouri, a crucial campaign state for the president to be sure. He was there today raising campaign money and promoting education reforms, the reforms passed by the Congress two years ago this week. Critics contend the No Child Left Behind Act is at the very least under funded and in some respects not well thought out.On to Washington State, the Agriculture Department said today it will kill 450 bull calves on a single farm there. The herd includes the offspring of the dairy cow that last month tested positive for mad cow disease. The calf wasn't tagged at birth making it impossible to single it out now, hence all of those calves will die.And a minor victory for radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh today, a Florida judge ruled that Mr. Limbaugh's medical records will remain off limits to prosecutors for at least another 15 days while his attorneys pursue an appeal to permanently seal the medical records. Mr. Limbaugh is under investigation for doctor shopping to obtain illegal -- to obtain legal prescription drugs.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT from a life sentence to possible freedom, a boy who was sent to prison for life without parole makes a deal that could get him out of prison at least in weeks, that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.
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BROWN: Sixteen-year-old Lionel Tate marked the first weekend of 2004 by signing a piece of paper that will transform his life. His name is familiar by now. The Florida boy sentenced to life in prison without parole when he was 14 for a murder he committed when he was just 12.Last month an appeals court in Florida ruled he should get a new trial. Prosecutors offered a plea bargain instead and yesterday young Lionel signed it in a case that has inspired outrage and horror came full circle.Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Her permission wasn't legally necessary but now that Lionel Tate's mother has given her blessing to by all accounts a generous plea deal he could be set free before the end of the month.
KATHLEEN GROSSETT-TATE, MOTHER: My son wants to come home and I want him home. I'm tired of driving up here every weekend.
CANDIOTTI: Three years ago, Tate's mother, a Florida Highway Patrol trooper, rejected the same deal the first time it was offered before the trial.
TATE: Lionel is still a child and we have to talk about it.
CANDIOTTI: Sixteen-year-old Tate was 12 when he beat to death neighbor Tiffany Eunick while his mother slept upstairs. Evidence showed 6-year-old Tiffany was struck at least 35 times, her liver dislodged, her skull fractured. An attorney for Lionel's mother...
HENRY HUNTER, MOTHER'S ATTORNEY: Lionel has plenty of psychological help and this is a daily concern of his of what happened to Tiffany and he's remorseful for it.
CANDIOTTI: Under the plea deal, Tate agrees to a so-called best interest guilty plea to second degree murder. That means, his lawyer says, he can still claim his innocence. His mother maintains Tiffany's death was an accident, unacceptable according to the former prosecutor who now represents the victim's mother.
KEN PADOWITZ, FORMER PROSECUTOR: That ignores the appellate court's own Opinion when they reversed this case that indicated that this was a brutal slaying and that the evidence was clear that this was a brutal slaying.TATE: If they could have changed it to manslaughter then I would have felt better and the fact that he's going to be on house arrest. When he was on house arrest before they made out lives very miserable.
CANDIOTTI: Tate faces a year under house arrest followed by ten years of probation and counseling. He enters his new plea in a few weeks. Two mothers, his and his victim's, will be watching.Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Before we go to break a quick look at our money line roundup. Martha Stewart starts it off. Here we go.Jury selection begins tomorrow in her obstruction of justice trial, the process does at least. Potential jurors will be asked to fill out a questionnaire to help lawyers decide who gets to hear the case. The two sides will take the next couple of weeks to figure out the questions. Ms. Stewart makes her first court appearance or her next one on the 20th.Detroit next where the headline reads "cars are front and center at this year's North American International Auto Show," that's cars, not SUVs. The new Corvette, the Ford 500, the Pontiac G-6 just to name a few, all this with the Big Three coming off a lousy year in profits and sales.And Wall Street on the other hand had a socko day with market watchers looking forward to a solid week, the Dow Industrials up 134 and a quarter points.Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, was there a quid pro quo? CBS answers criticism and that it got an interview with Michael Jackson by paying him more for an entertainment special.Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There's a fundamental rule of journalism and a cornerstone of every reporter's credibility: You do not pay for a story. You don't pay no matter how good, how big, how important the story might be. This is the rule and every time or any time it's broken, it's a black eye for journalism. So, even if the worst of the allegations are not true, there are still questions about the relationship between CBS Entertainment and News and giant media conglomerates that's been created by the Michael Jackson case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): First, a little background. When Michael Jackson was arrested on child molestation charges in November, CBS Entertainment indefinitely postponed an upcoming network special reportedly worth millions of dollars to the beleaguered singer and presumably to the network as well. But, after Jackson was interviewed by CBS' Ed Bradley on "60 Minutes," the special aired five days later. Now comes "The New York Times," quoting sources claiming that this was, in reality, a deal, that, in addition to getting his special aired, Michael Jackson received more money up front from CBS's entertainment division. And Jackson's attorney said -- quote -- "It was fair" -- unquote -- to say the airing of the special may have helped convince his client, Michael Jackson, to sit down with "60 Minutes."A CBS News spokesman, however, reaffirmed that they never pay for interviews. And today, Don Hewitt, the veteran executive producer of "60 Minutes," said, quote -- "The Michael Jackson interview fell in our laps with no strings attached, no ground rules, nothing off- limits. For 'The Times' to even hint that anything untoward occurred with this interview is shocking."So, while there is a dispute over whether CBS paid Jackson directly for the interview, the network does acknowledge that it demanded Michael Jackson answer the charges against him on a CBS news program before it would agree to air the special.
TIM RUTTEN, "THE L.A. TIMES": Don Hewitt's denials notwithstanding, what occurred here was that CBS traded an entertainment special to Michael Jackson for an interview on "60 Minutes." That's quid pro quo. That's a transaction. And whether or not CBS and "60 Minutes" choose to call it a payment, in fact, it is a form of compensation and, in fact, it is a form of checkbook journalism.
BROWN: University of California dean of journalism Dean Orville Schell says, it wasn't worth the price, any price.
ORVILLE SCHELL, DEAN OF JOURNALISM, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA: You have to say, is it worthwhile to base the reputation of the network by even the imputation of having bought such an interview, never mind the actual subtleties of the case?BROWN: In the end both, programs did well in the ratings. So, even if CBS News didn't actually pay for the program, it certainly benefited from this complicated and, to some, unsettling transaction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Howie Kurtz joins us know, as he often does when we take a look at ourselves, at media stories. Mr. Kurtz writes about media for "The Washington Post" and does a program here as well. It's nice to see you. Do you think CBS, by the way, has debased its reputation?
HOWARD KURTZ, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Well, I think CBS used to be above this sort of thing. I make no criticism of "60 Minutes," Aaron. I think Ed Bradley and company played it straight trying to get an interview that everybody in television wanted to get.But a CBS executive told me the day that the news of this interview surfaced that they made it very clear to Jackson's representatives, the nice little musical special you got here, if you want it to air, he's got to give an interview. No interview, no music special, a music special in which Jackson was listed as an executive producer and which brought millions of dollars -- the exact figure in dispute -- to Michael Jackson. BROWN: And, presumably, CBS made some money on the deal as well?
KURTZ: Networks are not usually in the business of losing money on putting on entertainment specials.
BROWN: Right. Pretty much the way this stuff works. If no money changed hands -- that is to say -- this is where it gets complicated -- setting the entertainment special and what CBS paid for that, assuming no other money changed hands, did CBS do anything wrong?
KURTZ: I would still feel uncomfortable about it. And, of course, money did change hands. And it is checkbook journalism, even if the money comes from a different checkbook, that of the CBS Entertainment division.But even if there was no money involved, CBS used its leverage as a corporation, dangling this thing that Jackson very much wanted, something to help jump-start his struggling music career, this special, in order to get that interview. And I've written a lot about various networks dancing around, doing a two-step around these kinds of restrictions. They don't want to pay for interviews directly, so, sometimes they buy the pictures or home videos or they pay the middleman or they put up the guest in a nice hotel in New York for a week. This is about the clearest-cut case I've seen in a long time.
BROWN: And just a quick one. Is there any way anything like this could happen in the newspaper business?
KURTZ: Interesting question. Newspapers are -- you know, newspapers are pretty adamant, except for tabloid newspapers, of course, about not paying for interviews, not paying for information. But, of course, newspapers buy pictures. Magazines buy pictures. "People" magazine has sometimes paid large sums for pictures from newsworthy persons, which can sometimes be a backdoor way of securing that interview or that cover story that everybody wants.
BROWN: I want to go back. There's a little devil's advocate here, but let me go back to the CBS argument, which actually makes some sense, that there is no way for CBS Entertainment to run that special -- and I'm sure it was -- unless there was first Michael Jackson talking about his arrest, because that is, as the spokesman said, the elephant in the room.
KURTZ: Well, I can understand CBS Entertainment's point of view, that the special can't go on the air without some accounting.But, at the same time, they made quite clear, the negotiations, this was kind of used as a club to bludgeon Jackson into giving this interview. And CBS, interestingly enough, has gotten very aggressive about this, owned by Viacom. It was just earlier this year that, in the effort to get the Jessica Lynch interview, the interview of that season that everybody wanted, Viacom, CBS, an executives wrote a letter offering a Simon & Schuster book deal, an MTV special, the obligatory made-for-TV movie, everything but her own Comedy Central show.So, I guess we're in an age, with all of these big networks now owned by mega-corporations, in which they are going to use all their assets, entertainment and news, in trying to land these interviews. And that kind of obliterates the line that we used to have between news division and the entertainment side.
BROWN: Is it fair to think of CBS News and "60 Minutes" as a victim in this?
KURTZ: I think, to some degree, it is fair, because I have no indication that Ed Bradley and "60 Minutes" did anything other than pursue -- it had been pursuing for about a year an obviously newsworthy interview with a world-famous pop star under investigation, under arrest for child molestation charges. Along comes the other part of the corporation, has this little conversation, makes this deal, which does happen to involve millions of dollars, and, by implication, the CBS News division looks bad, even though I don't think they did anything wrong. But CBS, as a company, as a corporation, has to be held accountable for the fact that they mixed these two things that probably ought not to be mixed. But I'm afraid -- I've seen other networks dance around the restrictions.
BROWN: Yes.
KURTZ: Everybody likes to say they don't pay for news, but you know what? They often seem to find a way.
BROWN: They do. And the bigger these companies get, I think, in some ways, the more complicated it gets.Howie, it's good to see you. Thank you.
KURTZ: Thanks, Aaron.
BROWN: Howie Kurtz of CNN and of "The Washington Post" as well. A few more quick items from around the world, starting in Brussels, where a two-week campaign of letter bomb attacks has yet to let up. Three arrived today, each addressed to members of the European Parliament. Two went off, no one hurt. Authorities suspect an Italian extremist group is behind the bombings. French divers continue their search in the Red Sea for the remnants of an Egyptian airliner that went down over the weekend. They've deployed electronic sensors to home in on the 737's flight recorders, which they hope will shed some light on the cause of the crash; 148 people, most of them French citizens, died shortly after takeoff. Both the Egyptian and the French governments are downplaying the possibility of terrorism. There are, however, serious questions about the mechanical condition of the plane and its history. And having confirmed the first new case of SARS this year, the Chinese government today began slaughtering the animal believed to spread the disease. About 10,000 cats will be destroyed. If you're concerned about animal welfare, you ought to know that these particular cats weren't going anywhere anyway. They were bound for the dinner table. Yikes. They're considered a delicacy in that part of China. As NEWSNIGHT continues, the Pete Rose gamble. Will admitting he bet on baseball get his lifelong ban lifted? A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
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BROWN: Even the biggest fans of the game will concede this about baseball: It doesn't take a saint to play it. If you can run or hit or throw a ball and do it well, you can also be a real jerk. You can be a blowhard, a racist, a drunk, a drug user, worse. And many baseball players have, from the dugout to the Hall of Fame. But tonight, Pete Rose is in neither place tonight, though he badly wants to be, because, in spite of getting more hits than any player in baseball history, he also violated just about the only rule there is. He bet on baseball. And to anyone who asked him, he lied.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Fourteen years out of baseball, Pete Rose now admits he lied about the one thing that mattered most.
CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS: You have always denied publicly that you bet on baseball. Did you bet on baseball?
PETE ROSE, FORMER MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER: Yes, I did. And that was my mistake, not coming clean a lot earlier.
BROWN: The admission and contrition is not without purpose. Rose is selling a new book and he is desperately trying to get back into baseball's good graces. He was banned from the game and banned from the Hall of Fame in 1989, after baseball's investigation into his gambling, some of which he admitted. But he always denied, always denied, betting on baseball.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROSE: I'm happy to look into the camera now and say, I never bet on baseball and I never bet on Cincinnati Red baseball.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: But, in his new book, he says he confessed his gambling on baseball to the present commissioner, Bud Selig, in a meeting the two had 14 months ago. "Yes, sir, I did bet on baseball," Rose writes in his book." "How often?" the commissioner asks, to which Rose responds, "Four or five times, a week.
"TOM KEEGAN, ESPN RADIO: Well, Pete's got an agenda here, obviously. He wants to get back in. He's tried the denial for 14 years. That didn't work. He's going to try a new avenue here.
BROWN: When he played the game, Pete Rose was superb. He broke baseball's all-time hit record in 1985, the same year, according to baseball's investigation, that he began betting on the game.
KEEGAN: I think Pete is such a cocky guy, such an arrogant guy, that he thinks that this will work. He thinks this angle is going to get him back in. He's the most engaging guy in the world. He's so easy to like. He makes people laugh so easily, that I'm sure he thinks that this is a popularity contest, and he never loses a popularity contest. And I think he's wrong about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, you can spend the night at the bar batting that one back and forth. Earlier today, we spent some time on it with "Sports Illustrated" senior baseball writer Tom Verducci.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: If it were not for the fact that Mr. Rose wants something from baseball, to get back in, do you believe he would admit anything?
TOM VERDUCCI, SENIOR WRITER, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": No. There would be no need for it. A couple things are very important to Pete Rose right now, getting into the Hall of Fame and getting back into a Major League dugout, preferably as a manager, perhaps as a coach. Whether that's his sole motivation or not, I don't know. Only Pete Rose knows that in his heart. But those two things are at the top of his agenda right now, at the age of 62.
BROWN: Did you ever sit down with Mr. Rose and say, did you bet on baseball?
VERDUCCI: I have not personally on a one-on-one basis, no. I remember that summer of '89, where the question came up time and time again.
BROWN: I remember sitting with him. I don't remember what he was -- he had just signed some deal with some Web site or something, so he was out doing interviews. I said, "You ever bet on baseball?" He said, "No." I said: "Come on. Everyone knows you did. I read the Dowd report. Everyone knows you bet on baseball. Did you ever bet on baseball?" "Absolutely Not. Anyone who says that is a liar."
VERDUCCI: Well, put yourselves in the shoes of Roger Kahn, very respected baseball journalist, wrote a book with Pete in 1989 titled "Pete Rose: My Story."
BROWN: Yes.
VERDUCCI: Roger looked him in the eye, he says, 20 times, and says, did you bet on baseball? And Pete said: "No. I would never do that. I respect the game too much to bet on baseball."
BROWN: You've read the book. I haven't. Does he understand why betting on baseball is a sin?
VERDUCCI: I don't think he gets that, Aaron, and I think that's something that's going to bother the commissioner. I think the commissioner wants to see that Pete Rose understands what he did goes beyond himself, that this really tears at the fabric, the integrity of the game. And Pete Rose takes more of a defensive posture, in that: Hey, I wasn't using drugs. Darryl Strawberry, Steve Howe gets six chances. You want to throw me out for life, and I never bet against the Reds to lose. He clearly draws a line between compromising the game, betting against the game to team to lose and getting against his own team to win. So it's a defensive posture in which he makes this admission.
BROWN: All of this ends up now in the commissioner's lap. Where is the pressure coming to do something? Why does he have to do anything?
VERDUCCI: Well, he doesn't have to do anything, but...
BROWN: But there is this sense that he does have to do something.
VERDUCCI: There clearly is.And part of that reason is because he sent signals to the Rose people that nothing would happen unless you came forward and admitted you bet on baseball and the Reds. OK, now Pete Rose taken that step. Pete is under the impression -- given the fact that he did admit to Bud Selig 14 months ago he bet on the Reds, he's under the impression now that he is on that reinstatement track, that they're starting down the road, however slowly. There's also pressure on the other side from Bud from people who are in the Hall of Fame, living Hall of Famers, many of whom have told Bud privately, and some publicly, they want nothing to do with the Hall of Fame if Pete Rose is a part of it. And that is pressure on Bud Selig, because bringing Pete Rose back, putting him on the ballot for the baseball writers probably means Pete gets in. And he risks alienating some of the icons of the game.
BROWN: Who?
VERDUCCI: Well, you're talking about people like Bob Feller and some of the greatest names in the business, who have a problem with what Pete did.
BROWN: Does he not, he also has people within the game and within the Hall of Fame, I gather, that believe that, if he simply tells the truth, at least the Hall of Fame part of his sentence ought to be lifted?
VERDUCCI: There is definitely that feeling. And I think that's a distinction that not enough people draw, that there's a difference between the institution of baseball and a brick building in Cooperstown, New York, that houses baseball's history and greatest players. There's a big difference there, because what Pete Rose did as a manager of the Reds did compromise the integrity of the game. But what he did on the field, I don't think anybody would argue that's Hall of Fame caliber.
BROWN: You're the commissioner of baseball. You've read the book. You've talked to Pete Rose. Do you believe he's reformed?
VERDUCCI: He's reformed to some extent. Now, if you go by Pete's own definition of reformed, that means he's no longer dealing with bookmakers -- his bets are now made legally, not illegally -- that and he's not going to the racetrack as often as he did in the past. What would scare me if I'm the commissioner is, this is someone who has shown me compulsive gambling habits. He risked and lost his professional livelihood because he could not stop himself from gambling.Is that someone I want to trust who's out there now continuing to gamble, going to racetracks? I know racetracks are legal. But bars are legal, but do you want to see an alcoholic walk into one?
BROWN: Yes. It's already the stir of the week, I think. And it's a great story. It's good to see you again. It's nice, in early January, to be able to talk baseball.
VERDUCCI: It is. It's a fascinating topic and will continue to be.
BROWN: Thank you. Good to see you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Tom Verducci of "Sports Illustrated."We'll take a look at morning papers after the break
.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: All right. I am so into this. Time to check the morning papers from around the country and around the world. They're a mess today.There's no clear lead anywhere in the world, OK? So we'll start with a couple of tabloids, Australian tabloids. Why not? Because I just thought this story was unbelievably dumb. I don't mean the story, the guy. "Mate, I'll Do it Again." This is the story of the crocodile or the alligator -- I never understood the difference anyway -- crocodile guy who's messing with the crocodile while he's holding his baby. He's doing like a Michael Jackson thing over the balcony. And he says, yes, I'll do it again. They put that all-important Britney Spears story on the front page, the one day -- but they didn't do it as well as "The Daily Telegraph." They've got the whole picture. "Britney Married One Day, Divorcing the Next." Look at that happy couple, and yet they're divorcing. What do you make of that? On to the domestic papers. They can't hold a candle to that, can they? "The Richmond Times-Dispatch." I love this story. This is a really good story. Forget your politics, just a good story. "U.S. Helps Firms Avoid Overtime. Labor Department Suggests How to Avert Payments to Workers." I'm sure there's an explanation for this, because you would think the Labor Department would be helping labor. I just don't get it. Anyway, I'll have to read that. It's an Associated Press story and it leads "The Richmond Times-Dispatch."All right, now a tale of several cities and the Pete Rose story. "The Cincinnati Enquirer." Pete Rose is a God in Cincinnati. And it, of course, is a front-page story there. "He Bet On Baseball. After 14 Years, Rose Admits Cardinal Sins," one of many stories in the "Philadelphia Inquirer" in tomorrow's edition, what the fans say, what the players say, what -- I don't know who the doc is, but what the doc says, all sorts of things, OK? That's "The Cincinnati Enquirer."The Philadelphia Inquirer," they've got a baseball story, too, a sad one, but a good one. Tug McGraw, the Phils, legend, died at 59. He threw the pitches that Philly fans won't forget. This is a very good front-page story. And I'm glad they front-paged it, because it plays really nicely against the Rose admits he bets on baseball story, which is just below it. I'm glad to see Tug McGraw got a front-page and sorry to see that he died. He had been sick for a while. How we doing on time, Terry (ph)?Oh, my goodness. "The Detroit News." "Cars, Cars, Everywhere. Japanese Up Stakes in Hybrid Race. Big Three Lose Ground in '03. Tiny Autos Muscle Weigh Into Spotlight." It's the North American International Auto Show. Otherwise, they wouldn't do auto stories in the Detroit papers, would they? I'll bet it's time. We'll do two more really quickly."Don't Bet On It." Oh, man. "Don't Bet On It" is "The Boston Herald" lead. "Ex-Sidekick: Pete's Not Telling All." Of course he's not. And "The Chicago Sun-Times." "For Pete's Sake, Rose Comes Clean." Weather tomorrow in Chicago is "stone cold." Yikes.We'll wrap it up after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before we go tonight, a quick recap of our top story. New security measures at international airports around the country, starting today, foreigners being photographed and fingerprinted, not all. Canadians, Japanese, most Europeans are exempt, which is causing somewhat of a stir in a number of countries. It also raises concerns among security experts. On the program tomorrow, one man's battle to stop an abortion clinic. This is a very good story. He's fighting it one construction worker at a time, winning hearts where he can, playing a new kind of hardball where he can. That's tomorrow right here on NEWSNIGHT. We hope you'll join us for that, 10:00 Eastern time.For most of you, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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