Bush Outlines Space Exploration Plan; Five Days to Go Until Iowa Caucuses; Fastows Plead Guilty
Aired January 14, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.If I were older and frankly I feel plenty old right now, I would know the answer to this but I don't. I don't know if back in 1961 when President Kennedy committed the country to land a man on the moon if people were as skeptical as they seem to be today.The president said today we are going back to the moon and beyond. I've yet to see a single note from anyone who has that tingle in their belly I know I had as a kid 40 years ago.So what has changed? Is it that we are no longer in a race with anyone? Is it that we know much of the work could be done more easily and far less expensively by unmanned flights? Is it that we have become such cynics that we no longer dream big dreams?It is the president's proposal and the challenge of fulfilling that proposal that leads the program and the whip tonight. We start at the White House, our Senior White House Correspondent John King, John a headline from you.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the goal is quite ambitious. The president says man should return to the moon in a dozen years and perhaps head to Mars in twice that within the quarter century but this president is making a very modest down payment leaving the big spending decisions to some president five or six years down the road -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.Next to a document found at Saddam Hussein's hideout in Iraq and what the military is saying about it. David Ensor reported the story today, David the headline.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the document was written by Saddam Hussein and in it he warns his followers not to cooperate closely with foreign fighters, with the jihadists he calls them. Some are pointing to it as further evidence in their view that the president was wrong to suggest there were ties between Saddam and al Qaeda -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you.Iowa, of course, Democrats working hard, pulling few punches, five days to go, Candy Crowley is there so, Candy, today's headline.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, they're in the final days of the very early part of this '04 race and this much we know from what we've heard. They're not getting any nicer.
BROWN: Thank you, Candy.And finally, Houston, Texas, and the husband and wife plea bargain in the Enron case, Jen Rogers on that, Jen the headline.
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the on again off again plea negotiations finally get finalized as both Fastow's enter guilty pleas and push the Enron investigations into high gear -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jen, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.Also coming up on the program tonight a look at the underground economy in a manner of speaking of the Gaza Strip, an unusual tour of secret tunnels used to bring in weapons and contraband.Segment 7 tonight will look at a new way of keeping track of immigrants who may be deported.And the rooster crows tonight after a night off, morning papers as always ends it, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight with the start of a countdown that if the country follows the path set out by the president today will end with a man or a woman on Mars by the year 2030. It is President Bush's answer to those who say the country has suffered an ambition deficit ever since Americans last set foot on the moon but it comes at a time when the country also has the kind of budget deficit that could stifle even the grandest ambition.We have two reports tonight beginning with our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The president wants man to return to the moon and then set sight on Mars and beyond.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not know where this journey will end yet we know this. Human beings are headed into the cosmos.
KING: The ambitious new mission for the space program includes landing robots on the Moon by 2008, a manned lunar mission as early as 2015, a permanent moon base and launch pad, new unmanned missions to Mars and Jupiter's moons and ultimately a manned mission to Mars in 25 years or so.
BUSH: Mankind is drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once drawn into unknown lands and across the open sea.
KING: Setting a new course in space became a Bush priority after last year's Shuttle Columbia tragedy and will require major changes at NASA, urgent work on developing a new space vehicle, completing commitments to the International Space Station and then retiring the aging shuttle fleet by 2010.It has been more than 30 years since man walked on the moon. Back then it was a Cold War race. Now, Mr. Bush says other countries are welcome to join what he calls a journey. Critics call it a waste saying robots, like the new Mars rover, are less expensive and more effective than manned missions. Mr. Bush takes issue.
BUSH: We need to see and examine and touch for ourselves and only human beings are capable of adapting to the inevitable uncertainties posed by space travel.
KING: The cost will be a major debating point. The president wants to increase NASA's $15 billion budget by roughly $1 billion over the next five years and shift $11 billion in existing NASA funding to the new exploration efforts.The government is running a record $500 billion deficit this year. Some Republicans complain Mr. Bush is proving to be anything but a fiscal conservative and some Democrats say they worry about shortchanging education and other domestic programs.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: We have to examine our priorities. We have serious challenges here on earth.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: So, a debate about funding all of this but this president starting with a quite modest down payment, Aaron, just $12 billion over the next five years. Then, if all is going well, the president down the road five or six years from now would have to make the decision to spend the billions and tens of billions more. That decision, Mr. Bush said today, should be made only when NASA proves it is indeed ready to put a man back on the moon and set its sights on Mars -- Aaron.
BROWN: How, if at all, do they respond to the concerns that we not only heard from Congresswoman Pelosi but that I've seen from lots of people in our e-mails today that we really do have serious problems here on earth, we ought to be spending money on, education under funded in lots of places, health care a real problem that sort of thing?
KING: Well, on the one hand they insist the president is addressing those domestic concerns and, of course, that will be a debate. The State of the Union is coming up next week, a presidential campaign that we hear from every day, the domestic priorities debate will continue but the president said today that you need ambitious goals like this. He says there is science to be gained, research to be made in space and he said, yes, he wants to lift the nation's spirit but he also said that that is the reason he is being cautious in the budgeting now. Remember his father said go to Mars. They said it would cost $400 billion and the project collapsed. This president says spend the next five years proving you can develop the technology to do it, proving it is worthy of doing it and then make the decision and only then to spend the tens and tens billions more it would in fact take.
BROWN: John, thank you, Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight.In the words of the president's father who, as John mentioned, also proposed a Mars mission it's the vision thing, now the details a little Buck Rogers but a lot of back to the future, reporting for us CNN's Miles O'Brien.
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MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They can get there from here and as NASA tells it without suspending disbelief, selling a bill of goods or breaking the bank. In short, NASA's boss believes the agency's most audacious far-flung adventure will be rooted in the tried and true.
SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: And that does not require either an invention, a suspension of the law of physics, a miracle, a leap of faith.
O'BRIEN: Talk like that is something new for the U.S. Space Agency which after all was born to make leaps of faith. But once the moon was suddenly and brilliantly theirs no one at NASA knew what was next including the last man to leave footprints in the lunar dust.
GENE CERNAN, APOLLO 17 ASTRONAUT: Well, we lacked vision. We didn't have a goal in the future. We weren't sure what we were trying to accomplish and, in fact, we weren't relevant and, in fact, I'm sure you can probably find out that we wasted a lot of money trying to build a space station, trying to find reasons for its existence.
O'BRIEN: The station and the shuttle were part of a grandiose Kubrick and Clark vision of space travel first championed by (unintelligible) rocket man Wernher Von Braun but with the blank checks gone so went the plan for space liners to wield stations where armadas would launch to Mars.
ANDY CHAIKIN, AUTHOR, "A MAN ON THE MOON": That was a beautiful dream but unfortunately it's a lot harder just in terms of the physics and a lot more expensive than anybody thought. So, I think what's happening now is NASA is getting smarter about attacking the problem and, yes, they have gotten out from under. I think the shadow they've gotten out from under is, you know, let's try and have another Apollo program.
O'BRIEN: So, at long last NASA appears to have emerged from the shadow of its own towering success and its own higher than the sky expectations. The agency says it will build on what it has learned using ideas it has already employed to move beyond low earth orbit.
O'KEEFE: Remember there isn't a whole lot of baselines for doing this. There isn't, you know, a condition in which you look at a benchmark in which how did someone else do it? We're it
.O'BRIEN: The launch vehicle might be a shuttle derivative, a spacecraft, a cross between the Apollo capsule and the orbital space plane that was dreamt up to take crews to the space station. NASA sees no giant leaps just small steps but space is a very big place and some who have been there wonder if you can get there on short money.
JOHN GLENN, ASTRONAUT, FORMER SENATOR: There are certain jobs that had to be done before you could go to the Moon. There are certain jobs that have to be done before you could go from the Moon to Mars and they're pretty big steps in my estimation and they're expensive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: The last time a President Bush suggested a mission to Mars it was President Bush, the father of the current one. The price tag came in at $400 billion. This time around at $12 billion it's definitely not your father's Mars mission and apparently it's not your father's NASA either -- Aaron.
BROWN: On the subject of the Moon and today, some business done up there, you got something on it?
O'BRIEN: Well, actually a little farther beyond, Mars, some business on Spirit, the rover which is on Mars in the Gustav (ph) Crater. It did a little pirouette up there successfully and it is on its way toward heading off the lander. It will take a ten foot run while we're sleeping overnight on the East Coast, take a picture back of its landing pallet and then off to the races it goes to a nearby crater where scientists are excited about the prospects perhaps, Aaron, of finding ancient evidence of water.
BROWN: Now, let me go back a second to the president today. When Americans stopped going to the moon 30 years ago, why? Why did the country stop?
O'BRIEN: Well, there really wasn't anything articulated beyond getting to the Moon before the end of the decade and once it became apparent that the U.S. had beaten the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union turned out not to be very close to accomplishing that task, there was no desire to press on.The Nixon administration was enmeshed in the Vietnam War at the time, didn't feel it had the money to press on and continue with a lunar base but the bottom line was the Apollo program was built for speed not for longevity. They really didn't have the equipment to stay there for a long period of time -- Aaron.
BROWN: Miles, thank you as always, Miles O'Brien who's in Atlanta for us tonight.Bold and expensive the space vision thing, which raises lots of questions among them is the plan worth the price? We're joined now by two people with some thoughts on this, U.S. Senator Bill Nelson of Florida. Senator Nelson flew on the 24th flight of the Space Shuttle Columbia which landed ten days before the Challenger disaster. That was in 1986. He joins us from Washington. And in Durham, North Carolina, Alex Roland is a professor at Duke University, a former NASA historian. We're glad to see them both. To both of you and, Senator, go ahead take the first whack at this, do we need to do this for both science and our souls?
SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Indeed and that's very well put, science and our souls and in doing the science, Aaron, we're going to have more technological breakthroughs that are going to improve our life here on earth. It's going to rejuvenate and invigorate a new generation of kids to be interested in science and math and engineering just like we did back in the '60s with Apollo.And, for our souls as you so aptly put it, the fact is that in our souls as Americans we are explorers and adventurers and I don't think we ever want to give that up because if we do then we become a second rate nation.
BROWN: Professor, do we need to do this for the science and our souls both?
ALEX ROLAND, FORMER NASA HISTORIAN: Well, we're sure we don't need to do it for the science. Any science that we want to do with our existing or predictable technology we can do much more efficiently, much more safely and much more cost effectively with automated spacecraft.I don't know whether we need to do it for our souls. It turns out that going to the Moon wasn't so good for our souls because it left us dissatisfied. If we succeeded in sending people to Mars, just as a stunt as we did to the Moon, when we were done with that mission we wouldn't have anything to show for it either. It's hard to see what the end game is for this.
BROWN: May I, let me submit that what we got out of the trip to the Moon, and I was 13-year-old kid when this began and, you know, 19 years old I guess when we finally got there, 20, was an extraordinary sense of accomplishment of national achievement.
ROLAND: Oh, and I think that's important but we can also get a sense of national achievement by more scientific exploration with automated spacecraft like we're seeing with Spirit on Mars now. And, remember, the Apollo program was part of a space race. We needed to demonstrate to ourselves and the rest of the world that we were technologically and scientifically superior to the Soviet Union, which had already bested us in space. We demonstrated that for $25 billion. That would be $100 billion or more today and then if you want to set up a base you're talking about multiples of hundreds of billions and multiples of hundreds of billions to go to Mars just to feel good.
BROWN: It is, Senator, we're talking about an extraordinary amount of money and granted we are talking about it over a period of a generation pretty much but it is an awful lot of money in a country that does seem still to have plenty of needs.
NELSON: Aaron, it's a tough time right now because we're hemorrhaging a half a trillion dollars a year in our budget deficit and that makes the challenge all the greater and this thing is not going anywhere unless the president offers the leadership because the president is the only one that can offer the leadership for the nation's space program. But if he does I think he can capture the imagination of the American people and then I think their representatives in Congress will support it.
BROWN: Just in listening to John King's reporting, Senator, what we're really talking about near term is, I don't want to say it's chump change even by your standards but $1 billion here or $1 billion there in terms of the overall budget it's not an enormous amount of money. That's an easy vote I would think, isn't it?
NELSON: It is but the question is, is the president going to put the juice and then sustain that juice?
BROWN: Yes.
NELSON: You've put it very well.
BROWN: And, professor, I'm intrigued I guess by the notes I've seen today. Is it that -- do you think it is that 40 years ago we were all very different? The Cold War was raging. Certainly the stakes seemed quite different. We didn't have the experience of going into space of landing there, of learning what ever it was we learned or did not learn. Is it just that times have changed? Do you think that explains why people seem somewhat lukewarm to this?
ROLAND: Well, I think several things are going on. First of all, I think the president's speech demonstrated today that this really isn't about the Moon and Mars. It's about saving the space station.There is no realistic plan in the president's speech for how we're going to get to the Moon and Mars. Surely, there's no budget commitment for it. All there is, is a reallocation of existing NASA money, $11 billion, $1 billion in new money and the purpose of this obviously is just to save the space station.What we've missed over the last year after the Columbia accident is that before the Columbia accident, a year ago this time, NASA's big problem was really that it had a space station that was at $100 billion and counting and it was fundamentally bankrupt.The president has the problem of where he's going to get the money to address that. Congress has told him they're not about to pony up more. This is really, I think, the president's election year plan to solve the space station problem and nothing in here is going to get us very far to the Moon or to Mars.
BROWN: Professor, Senator, it's good to talk to both of you on an important night. I suspect that our children will be having this conversation down the road but we're glad to start it today. Thank you.
ROLAND: Thank you.
NELSON: Thanks, Aaron.
BROWN: While we're on the topic of space and Mars, we just saw some pictures from there, you only have nine more days, just nine more days to get your 3-D glasses. Are you ready for this? Right here on NEWSNIGHT, next Friday, Miles O'Brien will take us all on an exclusive 3-D tour of Mars. The rover there has three dimensional cameras, I expect you know, and we will present the first ever 3-D TV transmission of the rover landscape.Now here's the catch. You're going to need those really nifty 3- D glasses. You can get them or make them. You can go to a number of Web sites, Rainbowsymphony.com, Eyetricks.com, 3Dglasses.com, how clever is that name.Or just go to our NEWSNIGHT Web site, cnn.com/newsnight and all the numbers and links to the instructions to make your own pair using blue and red cellophane. And, remember, if you do make your own the left eye should be red and the right eye should be blue. Why that is we will explain it on another night. That's next Friday. This is going to be cool or it's going to be a disaster but in either case it's the kind of thing you want to watch right here.Ahead on the program tonight back to earth, a letter from Saddam, what the Iraqi leader had to say after he was deposed.Plus a look at some of the secret tunnels being built to smuggle weapons into the Gaza Strip.And, later, a look at a new way of keeping track of illegal aliens due for deportation.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Iraq today, U.S. soldiers killed eight suspected insurgents but the bad guys got their licks in as well killing at least seven people, wounding 28 others in two separate attacks all of this in the Sunni Triangle where opposition to the occupation has been and remains strong. It is where Saddam Hussein was born, where he was captured one month ago, which brings us to a document found in his hideout and what it suggests about the anti-American attacks.Here's CNN's David Ensor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): The document was captured along with Saddam Hussein and it was written by him after he lost power, U.S. officials say. It warns his supporters to be cautious about linking up with foreign jihadists, foreigners coming into Iraq to attack American troops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While he, himself, is not being terribly cooperative the documents found with him, the information found around him are being helpful.
ENSOR: Senior al Qaeda figures under interrogation have said Osama bin Laden refused their suggestions before the Iraq War to work with Saddam Hussein, according to knowledgeable officials.The former Iraqi leader's warning against cooperating too closely with the jihadists is another piece of evidence challenging the Bush administration's assertions before the war about Saddam's ties to terrorists.
BUSH: We know he's got ties with al Qaeda. He's got connections with al Qaeda.
ENSOR: U.S. officials do warn against making too much of the Saddam document. They say there is evidence of some limited cooperation against coalition forces in Iraq between Ba'athists die- hards and foreign jihadists and that not all foreign fighters in Iraq are Islamic extremists. Meantime, there is more progress against insurgents attacking coalition forces. The arrest of No. 54 of the most wanted Khamis Sirhan al-Muhammad.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: He was an enabler for many of the resistance attacks on Iraqis.
ENSOR: U.S. forces also took in four nephews of the man they most want to find, Saddam's close confidante Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Saddam's document is not conclusive evidence that his supporters and al Qaeda have not cooperated much but it does appear to complicate things for those who argue that they may have -- Aaron.
BROWN: But there are a number of things here. There were assertions made about the relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam prior to the war. A lot changed after the war. Why in this document was Saddam concerned about joining up with the jihadists?
ENSOR: What I'm told is that he said something about not trusting their motives and not thinking that his supporters should believe that they are motivated in the same way. So, he simply, it's oil and water his view of al Qaeda and people like that. He didn't trust them nor did they trust him. That's basically the tenor of it.
BROWN: David, thank you as always, David Ensor in Washington tonight.In Israel tonight, four families are without their sons and, in Gaza, two children, young children, are without their mother. A Palestinian mother and Israeli sons died when the woman walked up to a military checkpoint on the Gaza border and set off a bomb, a bomb that killed herself, a security guard and three soldiers. Not one of the soldiers was over the age of 22.In a videotape made earlier, the bomber herself, just 22, said I always wanted to be the first woman to carry out a martyr attack where parts of my body can fly all over. She leaves behind a 3-year-old son and a daughter 18 months old, a depressing picture where children are concerned and it isn't the only depressing picture today.Here's CNN's John Vause.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Deep below the surface and more than a quarter mile long the tunnel stretches from Egypt to Gaza. It is cramped, barely enough room for a grown man to crawl.
LT. AVIV, IDF BATTLE ENGINEER: The children build it.VAUSE: Children?
AVIV: (Unintelligible.)
VAUSE: According to Israeli intelligence the tunnels are used to smuggle weapons, ammunition and drugs into Gaza for groups like Hamas and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They earn money from the drugs and with this money they pay for the ammunition and the weapons that they buy.
VAUSE: The Gaza entrance to the tunnel was found in a house in a Bedouin village not far from the town of Rafah. Israeli soldiers say when they arrived the men fled leaving behind two women, ten children, digging equipment and an intercom system. No one was arrested. The families left before CNN could talk to them.The Israelis believe it takes up to three months to dig a tunnel like this. It took a ton of explosives to destroy it in an instant. And the tunnels are apparently not just for smuggling. Not far away CNN watched as Israeli soldiers found one under a road used by military vehicles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This is an easy place for them to come and dig a tunnel, put an explosive device under the ground so that our forces will not see it. When the patrol comes by they blow it up.
VAUSE: Israel believes Palestinian militant groups are constantly digging in the area. Last month they tunneled under an Israeli border outpost in Gaza and tried to blow it up.The video appears to have been made by Hamas. No one was hurt in the blast but the outpost was badly damaged. For years the Israelis have been trying to stop the tunnels, a near impossible job they say because for many families in Rafah smuggling is their only source of income.John Vause, CNN, Jerusalem
.(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still to come tonight on NEWSNIGHT the price of loyalty. The author of the new book with former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill that's caused such an uproar joins us, a break first.On CNN this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Iowa tonight, it's all about numbers and offense, five days, seven candidates, 99 counties, a sea of sharp elbows -- OK, 14 elbows to be exact, 12, if you subtract John Edwards, who is banking on nice to win votes. If you're really counting, the sharpest jabs came from the man trailing, though just barely, the front-runner, Howard Dean, in the final stretch to Monday's caucuses. No. 2 in the Iowa polls pulled some punches, but just barely. Again, CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): With everything but a hi-ho, Silver, Howard Dean is cranking it up.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the people- powered express.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWLEY: In Iowa, it is time for closing arguments. DEAN: We have had enough of what goes on in Washington. We need a change in this party and we need a change in this country.
CROWLEY: Kicking off his optimistically named Victory Tour, Richard Gephardt has also had enough. Dean, he said, has changed his views on gun control, trade and Medicare to make himself the life of the party. He did not exactly call him a liar.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To me, there is no room for the cynical politics of manufactured anger and false conviction.
CROWLEY: In a high-stakes struggle for an Iowa first, the gracious gentleman from Missouri let loose. He didn't call Dean unelectable, but he walked around the edges.
GEPHARDT: Now we find out he thinks there's an upside to terrorists running the Palestinian Authority. And we thought George W. Bush was unprepared to be president of the United States.
CROWLEY: Dean, battling to secure his lead over Gephardt in Iowa, was out of state most of Wednesday, trying to push back against a threat to his grip on New Hampshire.
DEAN: Look, I think General Clark is a good guy, but I truly believe he's a Republican.
CROWLEY: As other campaigns ramped up the rhetoric, John Kerry, a war hero and veteran senator who has emphasized his willingness to fight, waxed downright poetic.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't come here today just to offer my resume. That's not what this is about. I offer my gut. I offer my heart. I offer my efforts that have sometimes taken great risks. CROWLEY: Kerry's above-the-fray tone comes as polls indicate his disappointing campaign has picked up a little traction.
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CROWLEY: Still, Kerry knows full well, you cannot count on those polls. There are only two certainties now, Aaron. One is that this race is very close, everyone within the margin of error in the top tier. And almost anything can happen -- Aaron.
BROWN: What's the weather supposed to be like Monday?
CROWLEY: You know, cold.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: We asked somebody and they said it was too early to tell whether it was going to snow. They are expecting some sort of snow in here earlier. BROWN: Yes.
CROWLEY: But I'm not sure about Monday. So it will make a big difference. The sort of weather parsing is that, if it snows, if it's horrible weather, that hurts Dick Gephardt, John Kerry, because their voters tend to be a little older -- their caucusers tend to be a little bit older.
BROWN: OK, well, a little cold isn't going to scare those Iowans, but the snow might. Thank you very much.
CROWLEY: Right. No.BROWN: Candy Crowley in Des Moines tonight. The war in Iraq continues to occupy a enormous chunk of the debate on the campaign trail in Iowa. Adding fuel to the fire this week, of course, the debut of the provocative book about Paul O'Neill's two years as secretary of the treasury in the Bush administration. What he told the book's author has set off a bit of a commotion -- a bit -- which ended with Mr. O'Neill backing away from some of the comments. Ron Suskind is the author of "The Price of Loyalty." We're glad to have him with us tonight.Do you interpret the things that the secretary said yesterday on "The Today Show" and other places, I gather, as backing off?
RON SUSKIND, AUTHOR, "THE PRICE OF LOYALTY": No, I don't, Aaron. He said it on "The Today Show."He expressed regret that that one statement about a blind man in a roomful of deaf people was so vivid that it eclipsed all the rest and all those quotes and all the documents and everything else that was in the book. That was his regret. He wished that wouldn't happen. But, obviously
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: And he pulled back a bit on the Iraq stuff, too, it seemed to me.
SUSKIND: Well, I think that was just Paul O'Neill's way of starting a long explanation of things. I think it's very clear in the book that O'Neill was surprised, as were others in the meeting. This is not just one man's testimony. A lot of folks were in the meeting, surprised that, in the first NSC meeting, it was all about Iraq and what to do about Saddam.And very quickly, the issue of using the U.S. military for regime change, that was a big change. The Clinton administration wanted regime change, but didn't talk about employing the military in this forceful way.
BROWN: Employing the military or employing ground troops?
SUSKIND: Ground troops, yes. Specifically, ground troops.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Because, obviously, the military was there.
SUSKIND: Yes.
BROWN: Is he -- have you talked to him over the last couple days?
SUSKIND: Every few hours.
BROWN: OK. Is he -- do you think he's being leaned on?
SUSKIND: No, I don't. I don't.I can say emphatically he hasn't. He had a call from Rumsfeld a few nights ago. And Don -- I think Rumsfeld mentioned that in the press conference. And Rumsfeld sort of said, this is a sour-grapes book. And Paul said, well, some people may see it that way. I don't. I see it's a book about what's wrong with the political system, etcetera.
BROWN: Yes.
SUSKIND: And there was a conversation about some of the things in the book. And that was it. It was very polite, I understand, with Rumsfeld.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: They're old buddies.
SUSKIND: About 30 years. BROWN: Yes. Is he -- you know him pretty well through all of this, and maybe this is a level of candor you're not prepared for -- is he as naive about some of this stuff as he comes off, because when he said the other day that he -- there was this discussion about how people would see it as a betrayal, and he seemed befuddled by the idea that anyone would, is he a naive guy about this?
SUSKIND: He's not naive. I think that's important to stress. People who know him will say that. He actually has a very fine-tuned political sense. You see it in the documents that are in the book. He writes a killer document to the president, the first day O'Neill is in office, about knee-capping the Democrats on the tax cut. The difference is this, is that he believes very strongly that that should not guide his behavior, political calculations. So sometimes he kind of shrugs. That was more of a shrug. Why would people worry if I simply told the truth? He believes almost in this mystical power of truth. For a reporter, it's lovely.
BROWN: Well, let's talk about truth. Truth is an interesting thing here, because the rest of us are left to evaluate it.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: So you and he create an impression of the president who is -- these are my words, not yours -- a kind of empty suit, in many respects. Others in the administration, the defense secretary came out the other day, and we heard his old friend the commerce secretary the other day, and the FBI director today said, no, he's incredibly engaged. He asks all the right questions. How do I evaluate that? Where is the evidence one way or another that allows me and readers and all these people watching to figure out who is telling the truth?
SUSKIND: I think a key thing you need to think about is the positioning of the speaker. There are very few people who have left this administration who are willing to talk and can speak in what we call an unmanaged way. John Diiulio, who I talked to in another story, did. And Paul O'Neill is the prime inner circle member who is left and can speak. Frankly, we'll have other people leave. And, hopefully, some of them will speak. And I think, at that point, I'm convinced we're going to get corroboration for what O'Neill has said. Others in the administration have echoed off the record what O'Neill has said as well. Otherwise, it wouldn't be in the book.
BROWN: You have obviously caught a wave of sorts for a writer and a journalist. It's been, I gather, a fascinating week. It's nice to see you, as always.
SUSKIND: Yes. A lot of fun. A lot of fun. BROWN: I'll bet it is. It's a nice piece of work.
SUSKIND: Yes.
BROWN: Thank you. And people will evaluate it as they do.
SUSKIND: Be well.
BROWN: Thank you. You, too. Ahead on the program, the Enron case, a major development. A key figure pleads guilty -- two of them, in fact -- which could mean big trouble -- which could mean big trouble for former bosses. We take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Houston today, after weeks of legal wrangling, former Enron executive Andrew Fastow pleaded guilty, and so did his wife, Lea. Between them, they face more than 100 counts. They pled guilty to three. This makes Mr. Fastow the highest-ranking Enron executive to be convicted in the scandal. The federal prosecutor in the case said the guilty plea sent a clear message -- quote -- "If you cross a clear line, we're going to hammer you.'Here's CNN's Jen Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Andrew and Lea Fastow were silent as they arrived at federal court in Houston. But, inside, at separate hearings, one word said it all, guilty. Andrew Fastow, Enron's former CFO, pleaded guilty to two counts of conspiracy to commit securities fraud and wire fraud. He agreed to cooperate with the government's investigation, serve 10 years in prison and forfeit more than $29 million in assets.
LESLIE CALDWELL, ENRON TASK FORCE: This is very significant to the Enron Task Force, because,for the first time, the Enron Task Force now has a seat on the 50th floor of Enron. And whatever Andrew Fastow knows about what went on, on the 50th floor, the Enron Task Force will now know as well.
ROGERS: For her part, Fastow's wife, Lea, pleaded guilty to one charge of filing a false income tax return in which she failed to report income from an Enron-related partnership. Her deal with the government calls for a five-month prison sentence followed up with five months of home confinement.
MIKE DEGUERIN, ATTORNEY: There really is life after Enron for all of us, we believe. And we're trying to get through this process as best we can.
ROGERS: The process for the Enron Task Force continues. And with Mr. Fastow now cooperating, many see the investigation moving up the Enron hierarchy. So far, the two most powerful men at Enron, Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling, have not been charged. And both deny any wrongdoing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROGERS: In fact, Ken Lay's attorney actually showed up here at court to come and watch Andrew Fastow enter his guilty plea. When asked whether or not he thought the Fastows' deal was a setback for his client, he said, no, he thought it was a step forward, one towards resolution -- Aaron. BROWN: Jen, thank you -- Jen Rogers in Houston tonight. The "MONEYLINE Roundup" tonight starts with a little bit of a business deal. Seems like the old days here. J.P. Morgan Chase is buying out Bank One for $50 billion. The combined entity, if that's the right word for it, would have assets totaling $1.1 trillion, just a little business deal turned today. And on Wall Street, just one way to sum up the markets on a day like this, to the moon, yes, to the moon, everything up today on the street. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, electronic ankle bracelets being used not for convicted criminals, but on immigrants facing deportation, a look at a new INS program when we come back.This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On a day when the headlines are taken up with technology and the outer reaches with missions to Mars and colonies in space, there are other stories involving technology tonight. It is applied technology in the most literal sense of the phrase, less to do with human aspirations than human shortcomings and very much in the here and now. From Miami tonight, CNN's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six-year-old Shirley Sandivar doesn't understand what's happening to her family. She only knows it makes her cry.
LOURDES SANDIVAR, MOTHER: The kid is cry too much. She said me, mommy, this is my country. I want to stay here. My friends, my teachers,they are here. Mommy, I don't want to stay to Peru.
ZARRELLA: A week ago, Lourdes Sandivar was met by U.S. immigration officers after she dropped off her children at this elementary school in Hollywood, Florida. After living in the U.S. for 10 years, Lourdes and her husband are awaiting deportation because a political asylum claim they filed a decade ago and follow-up appeals have now been denied. Lourdes' husband is now being held at a federal detention center because, immigration officials say, he didn't cooperate when ordered to turn in his passport.
JOHN MATA, BUREAU OF IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Because of their evasive behaviors, because they didn't respond to our letters, because, after we talked to him on the phone, they changed their address without notifying us.
ZARRELLA: She was allowed to stay home with her children, but had to agree to wear this electronic monitoring device around her ankle.
JORGE RIVERA, ATTORNEY FOR SANDIVAR: That's how immigration is going to be able to ensure that these people don't disappear. But, then again, the question is, how humane is this? Do we want to treat immigrants as criminals?
ZARRELLA: Besides wearing the monitor, Sandivar had to agree not to leave Broward County without permission. And she can only leave her home between the hours of 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. And her phone calls are monitored. Sandivar says she feels like a criminal.
SANDIVAR: I work very hard in this country, very, very hard. I pay my taxes. I don't have the criminal.
ZARRELLA: The ankle bracelet is a pilot program being tested in three cities, Miami, Detroit, and Anchorage. There are 43 people in the Miami program. (on camera): Immigration officials told us the program is anything but heavy-handed or excessive. If anything, they say, it's a very humane approach, allowing at least one family member to stay at home. (voice-over): Immigration officials say, for those who qualify, it's completely voluntary. For Lourdes Sandivar and any other clear- thinking individual, the choice between federal detention and an ankle bracelet is a no-brainer. John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, and an unusual amount of time for that tonight, which has me -- going to move fairly slowly. Those of you who have had trouble keeping up, this is your night. "The International Herald Tribune," published in Paris by "The New York Times." For those of you traveling abroad, you will find this in your hotel, we suspect, or hope or wish you had. They put J.P. Morgan Chase and the Bank One merger on the front page. "Middle East: Young Mother Kills Four Israelis in Suicide Blast," a truly awful story. And if you step back from the politics of it, it's awful all around, frankly
.The story I liked was actually in today's "New York Times." "Filling in Hockey's Toothless Grin," a story about how dentistry has changed the face -- no pun intended -- of hockey players. Got a great picture of Bobby Hull. You probably can't see that, because it's a little small. Can you see that? There it is. I can't see that because I don't have my glasses on.
"The Boston Herald" leads, "Frrrigid." It's cold here in the Northeast. And, of course, if we're cold here in the Northeast, we want to make sure all of you know about it, because this is the center of the universe. "Iowa Race Tied." Also, "Kerry Surges into Dem Three-For-All." That's pretty good. I like that headline.
"The Jerusalem Post," obviously, leads with the suicide bombing. "Female Bomber Kills Four Israelis." I had a viewer -- sometimes annoying viewer, to be perfectly honest. I like all the rest of you, but this one complained that I was using "The Jerusalem Post," thought that was just politically unfair. Leave me alone.
"The Miami Herald" leads with space. "Bush Into the Cosmos" is the headline. That's a nice story. They also put -- that's a nice headline. And they put Enron on the front page. "Ex-Enron Executive and Wife Plead Guilty."How we doing on time, Mr. Gorman (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1:20.
BROWN: 1:20. OK."The Philadelphia Inquirer." I'm coming to like this paper, you know? I don't know why I said you know there. It just made me sound like my daughter. "Bush Launches Plan for Moon Mars Quest" is the headline. "His proposal for years to come included new exploration vehicles to replace shuttles. Cost details, though, were few." I like that part of the story. Two school stories and perhaps related. "City Schools Faulted on Quelling Violence," unpleasant news, that.
"Philadelphia Will Ban Sodas From the Sale of Schools." Maybe all that sugar has gotten kids all wound up and that is why they're fighting with one another. This is the best story I've seen today. I haven't read it all. This is "The Times, "The Reporter Times,"
"The Times Reporter." I'm not sure. Dover and New Philadelphia, Ohio. "God, Please Help Me." It is a reporter's account of an execution in the state of Ohio. And it is gripping. I don't know if they have a Web site, but they probably do.
From that to this, "The Park City Record" in Park City, Utah. This is Wednesday, Thursday and Friday's edition. "Dim the Lights, Start the Movies." Film Festival in Park City are ready to go. And the whole front page just about is on the Park City film festival, or the Sundance Film Festival, including this kind of goofy shot of a guy eating something. I'm not sure what this is.
And "The Chicago Sun-Times" will end it all. The weather tomorrow in Chicago tomorrow, by the way, is -- I think we've fallen in love with something -- "demoralizing," 24. That will be a heat wave for those of us in the center of the universe. We'll wrap up the day in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before we leave you, a quick update of our top story tonight, President Bush unveiling a plan to put the shuttle back in space, base on the moon and eventually astronauts on Mars. The president asked Congress for funding to the tune of just an extra billion dollars a year for NASA, not nearly enough, according to some critics, too much, say others, considering all the demands on the federal budget and the deficit these days.Tomorrow night on this program, the Web site that helps bring people together. Computer geeks, pagans, left-handed jugglers, you names it, they got it. But, lately, it's also become a key factor politics. It's MeetUp.com. And it is "On the Rise." And it is on NEWSNIGHT tomorrow. How good are we? That sounds like a Friday story on Thursday .Here's Bill Hemmer, who stayed late tonight to give us a look at what's coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, thank you.Tomorrow morning here on "AMERICAN MORNING," Senator Ted Kennedy delivers yet again a blistering attack regarding the war in Iraq. We'll talk to the senator. Does he think the president lied to the country? And, if so, how will this play out in the election over the next 10 months?We'll have it for you 7:00 a.m. Eastern time tomorrow morning here -- Aaron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's a good booking.We'll see you tomorrow, too, 10:00 Eastern time. Until then, good night for all of us.
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Aired January 14, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.If I were older and frankly I feel plenty old right now, I would know the answer to this but I don't. I don't know if back in 1961 when President Kennedy committed the country to land a man on the moon if people were as skeptical as they seem to be today.The president said today we are going back to the moon and beyond. I've yet to see a single note from anyone who has that tingle in their belly I know I had as a kid 40 years ago.So what has changed? Is it that we are no longer in a race with anyone? Is it that we know much of the work could be done more easily and far less expensively by unmanned flights? Is it that we have become such cynics that we no longer dream big dreams?It is the president's proposal and the challenge of fulfilling that proposal that leads the program and the whip tonight. We start at the White House, our Senior White House Correspondent John King, John a headline from you.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the goal is quite ambitious. The president says man should return to the moon in a dozen years and perhaps head to Mars in twice that within the quarter century but this president is making a very modest down payment leaving the big spending decisions to some president five or six years down the road -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.Next to a document found at Saddam Hussein's hideout in Iraq and what the military is saying about it. David Ensor reported the story today, David the headline.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the document was written by Saddam Hussein and in it he warns his followers not to cooperate closely with foreign fighters, with the jihadists he calls them. Some are pointing to it as further evidence in their view that the president was wrong to suggest there were ties between Saddam and al Qaeda -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you.Iowa, of course, Democrats working hard, pulling few punches, five days to go, Candy Crowley is there so, Candy, today's headline.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, they're in the final days of the very early part of this '04 race and this much we know from what we've heard. They're not getting any nicer.
BROWN: Thank you, Candy.And finally, Houston, Texas, and the husband and wife plea bargain in the Enron case, Jen Rogers on that, Jen the headline.
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the on again off again plea negotiations finally get finalized as both Fastow's enter guilty pleas and push the Enron investigations into high gear -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jen, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.Also coming up on the program tonight a look at the underground economy in a manner of speaking of the Gaza Strip, an unusual tour of secret tunnels used to bring in weapons and contraband.Segment 7 tonight will look at a new way of keeping track of immigrants who may be deported.And the rooster crows tonight after a night off, morning papers as always ends it, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight with the start of a countdown that if the country follows the path set out by the president today will end with a man or a woman on Mars by the year 2030. It is President Bush's answer to those who say the country has suffered an ambition deficit ever since Americans last set foot on the moon but it comes at a time when the country also has the kind of budget deficit that could stifle even the grandest ambition.We have two reports tonight beginning with our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The president wants man to return to the moon and then set sight on Mars and beyond.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We do not know where this journey will end yet we know this. Human beings are headed into the cosmos.
KING: The ambitious new mission for the space program includes landing robots on the Moon by 2008, a manned lunar mission as early as 2015, a permanent moon base and launch pad, new unmanned missions to Mars and Jupiter's moons and ultimately a manned mission to Mars in 25 years or so.
BUSH: Mankind is drawn to the heavens for the same reason we were once drawn into unknown lands and across the open sea.
KING: Setting a new course in space became a Bush priority after last year's Shuttle Columbia tragedy and will require major changes at NASA, urgent work on developing a new space vehicle, completing commitments to the International Space Station and then retiring the aging shuttle fleet by 2010.It has been more than 30 years since man walked on the moon. Back then it was a Cold War race. Now, Mr. Bush says other countries are welcome to join what he calls a journey. Critics call it a waste saying robots, like the new Mars rover, are less expensive and more effective than manned missions. Mr. Bush takes issue.
BUSH: We need to see and examine and touch for ourselves and only human beings are capable of adapting to the inevitable uncertainties posed by space travel.
KING: The cost will be a major debating point. The president wants to increase NASA's $15 billion budget by roughly $1 billion over the next five years and shift $11 billion in existing NASA funding to the new exploration efforts.The government is running a record $500 billion deficit this year. Some Republicans complain Mr. Bush is proving to be anything but a fiscal conservative and some Democrats say they worry about shortchanging education and other domestic programs.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: We have to examine our priorities. We have serious challenges here on earth.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: So, a debate about funding all of this but this president starting with a quite modest down payment, Aaron, just $12 billion over the next five years. Then, if all is going well, the president down the road five or six years from now would have to make the decision to spend the billions and tens of billions more. That decision, Mr. Bush said today, should be made only when NASA proves it is indeed ready to put a man back on the moon and set its sights on Mars -- Aaron.
BROWN: How, if at all, do they respond to the concerns that we not only heard from Congresswoman Pelosi but that I've seen from lots of people in our e-mails today that we really do have serious problems here on earth, we ought to be spending money on, education under funded in lots of places, health care a real problem that sort of thing?
KING: Well, on the one hand they insist the president is addressing those domestic concerns and, of course, that will be a debate. The State of the Union is coming up next week, a presidential campaign that we hear from every day, the domestic priorities debate will continue but the president said today that you need ambitious goals like this. He says there is science to be gained, research to be made in space and he said, yes, he wants to lift the nation's spirit but he also said that that is the reason he is being cautious in the budgeting now. Remember his father said go to Mars. They said it would cost $400 billion and the project collapsed. This president says spend the next five years proving you can develop the technology to do it, proving it is worthy of doing it and then make the decision and only then to spend the tens and tens billions more it would in fact take.
BROWN: John, thank you, Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight.In the words of the president's father who, as John mentioned, also proposed a Mars mission it's the vision thing, now the details a little Buck Rogers but a lot of back to the future, reporting for us CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They can get there from here and as NASA tells it without suspending disbelief, selling a bill of goods or breaking the bank. In short, NASA's boss believes the agency's most audacious far-flung adventure will be rooted in the tried and true.
SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: And that does not require either an invention, a suspension of the law of physics, a miracle, a leap of faith.
O'BRIEN: Talk like that is something new for the U.S. Space Agency which after all was born to make leaps of faith. But once the moon was suddenly and brilliantly theirs no one at NASA knew what was next including the last man to leave footprints in the lunar dust.
GENE CERNAN, APOLLO 17 ASTRONAUT: Well, we lacked vision. We didn't have a goal in the future. We weren't sure what we were trying to accomplish and, in fact, we weren't relevant and, in fact, I'm sure you can probably find out that we wasted a lot of money trying to build a space station, trying to find reasons for its existence.
O'BRIEN: The station and the shuttle were part of a grandiose Kubrick and Clark vision of space travel first championed by (unintelligible) rocket man Wernher Von Braun but with the blank checks gone so went the plan for space liners to wield stations where armadas would launch to Mars.
ANDY CHAIKIN, AUTHOR, "A MAN ON THE MOON": That was a beautiful dream but unfortunately it's a lot harder just in terms of the physics and a lot more expensive than anybody thought. So, I think what's happening now is NASA is getting smarter about attacking the problem and, yes, they have gotten out from under. I think the shadow they've gotten out from under is, you know, let's try and have another Apollo program.
O'BRIEN: So, at long last NASA appears to have emerged from the shadow of its own towering success and its own higher than the sky expectations. The agency says it will build on what it has learned using ideas it has already employed to move beyond low earth orbit.
O'KEEFE: Remember there isn't a whole lot of baselines for doing this. There isn't, you know, a condition in which you look at a benchmark in which how did someone else do it? We're it
.O'BRIEN: The launch vehicle might be a shuttle derivative, a spacecraft, a cross between the Apollo capsule and the orbital space plane that was dreamt up to take crews to the space station. NASA sees no giant leaps just small steps but space is a very big place and some who have been there wonder if you can get there on short money.
JOHN GLENN, ASTRONAUT, FORMER SENATOR: There are certain jobs that had to be done before you could go to the Moon. There are certain jobs that have to be done before you could go from the Moon to Mars and they're pretty big steps in my estimation and they're expensive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: The last time a President Bush suggested a mission to Mars it was President Bush, the father of the current one. The price tag came in at $400 billion. This time around at $12 billion it's definitely not your father's Mars mission and apparently it's not your father's NASA either -- Aaron.
BROWN: On the subject of the Moon and today, some business done up there, you got something on it?
O'BRIEN: Well, actually a little farther beyond, Mars, some business on Spirit, the rover which is on Mars in the Gustav (ph) Crater. It did a little pirouette up there successfully and it is on its way toward heading off the lander. It will take a ten foot run while we're sleeping overnight on the East Coast, take a picture back of its landing pallet and then off to the races it goes to a nearby crater where scientists are excited about the prospects perhaps, Aaron, of finding ancient evidence of water.
BROWN: Now, let me go back a second to the president today. When Americans stopped going to the moon 30 years ago, why? Why did the country stop?
O'BRIEN: Well, there really wasn't anything articulated beyond getting to the Moon before the end of the decade and once it became apparent that the U.S. had beaten the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union turned out not to be very close to accomplishing that task, there was no desire to press on.The Nixon administration was enmeshed in the Vietnam War at the time, didn't feel it had the money to press on and continue with a lunar base but the bottom line was the Apollo program was built for speed not for longevity. They really didn't have the equipment to stay there for a long period of time -- Aaron.
BROWN: Miles, thank you as always, Miles O'Brien who's in Atlanta for us tonight.Bold and expensive the space vision thing, which raises lots of questions among them is the plan worth the price? We're joined now by two people with some thoughts on this, U.S. Senator Bill Nelson of Florida. Senator Nelson flew on the 24th flight of the Space Shuttle Columbia which landed ten days before the Challenger disaster. That was in 1986. He joins us from Washington. And in Durham, North Carolina, Alex Roland is a professor at Duke University, a former NASA historian. We're glad to see them both. To both of you and, Senator, go ahead take the first whack at this, do we need to do this for both science and our souls?
SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Indeed and that's very well put, science and our souls and in doing the science, Aaron, we're going to have more technological breakthroughs that are going to improve our life here on earth. It's going to rejuvenate and invigorate a new generation of kids to be interested in science and math and engineering just like we did back in the '60s with Apollo.And, for our souls as you so aptly put it, the fact is that in our souls as Americans we are explorers and adventurers and I don't think we ever want to give that up because if we do then we become a second rate nation.
BROWN: Professor, do we need to do this for the science and our souls both?
ALEX ROLAND, FORMER NASA HISTORIAN: Well, we're sure we don't need to do it for the science. Any science that we want to do with our existing or predictable technology we can do much more efficiently, much more safely and much more cost effectively with automated spacecraft.I don't know whether we need to do it for our souls. It turns out that going to the Moon wasn't so good for our souls because it left us dissatisfied. If we succeeded in sending people to Mars, just as a stunt as we did to the Moon, when we were done with that mission we wouldn't have anything to show for it either. It's hard to see what the end game is for this.
BROWN: May I, let me submit that what we got out of the trip to the Moon, and I was 13-year-old kid when this began and, you know, 19 years old I guess when we finally got there, 20, was an extraordinary sense of accomplishment of national achievement.
ROLAND: Oh, and I think that's important but we can also get a sense of national achievement by more scientific exploration with automated spacecraft like we're seeing with Spirit on Mars now. And, remember, the Apollo program was part of a space race. We needed to demonstrate to ourselves and the rest of the world that we were technologically and scientifically superior to the Soviet Union, which had already bested us in space. We demonstrated that for $25 billion. That would be $100 billion or more today and then if you want to set up a base you're talking about multiples of hundreds of billions and multiples of hundreds of billions to go to Mars just to feel good.
BROWN: It is, Senator, we're talking about an extraordinary amount of money and granted we are talking about it over a period of a generation pretty much but it is an awful lot of money in a country that does seem still to have plenty of needs.
NELSON: Aaron, it's a tough time right now because we're hemorrhaging a half a trillion dollars a year in our budget deficit and that makes the challenge all the greater and this thing is not going anywhere unless the president offers the leadership because the president is the only one that can offer the leadership for the nation's space program. But if he does I think he can capture the imagination of the American people and then I think their representatives in Congress will support it.
BROWN: Just in listening to John King's reporting, Senator, what we're really talking about near term is, I don't want to say it's chump change even by your standards but $1 billion here or $1 billion there in terms of the overall budget it's not an enormous amount of money. That's an easy vote I would think, isn't it?
NELSON: It is but the question is, is the president going to put the juice and then sustain that juice?
BROWN: Yes.
NELSON: You've put it very well.
BROWN: And, professor, I'm intrigued I guess by the notes I've seen today. Is it that -- do you think it is that 40 years ago we were all very different? The Cold War was raging. Certainly the stakes seemed quite different. We didn't have the experience of going into space of landing there, of learning what ever it was we learned or did not learn. Is it just that times have changed? Do you think that explains why people seem somewhat lukewarm to this?
ROLAND: Well, I think several things are going on. First of all, I think the president's speech demonstrated today that this really isn't about the Moon and Mars. It's about saving the space station.There is no realistic plan in the president's speech for how we're going to get to the Moon and Mars. Surely, there's no budget commitment for it. All there is, is a reallocation of existing NASA money, $11 billion, $1 billion in new money and the purpose of this obviously is just to save the space station.What we've missed over the last year after the Columbia accident is that before the Columbia accident, a year ago this time, NASA's big problem was really that it had a space station that was at $100 billion and counting and it was fundamentally bankrupt.The president has the problem of where he's going to get the money to address that. Congress has told him they're not about to pony up more. This is really, I think, the president's election year plan to solve the space station problem and nothing in here is going to get us very far to the Moon or to Mars.
BROWN: Professor, Senator, it's good to talk to both of you on an important night. I suspect that our children will be having this conversation down the road but we're glad to start it today. Thank you.
ROLAND: Thank you.
NELSON: Thanks, Aaron.
BROWN: While we're on the topic of space and Mars, we just saw some pictures from there, you only have nine more days, just nine more days to get your 3-D glasses. Are you ready for this? Right here on NEWSNIGHT, next Friday, Miles O'Brien will take us all on an exclusive 3-D tour of Mars. The rover there has three dimensional cameras, I expect you know, and we will present the first ever 3-D TV transmission of the rover landscape.Now here's the catch. You're going to need those really nifty 3- D glasses. You can get them or make them. You can go to a number of Web sites, Rainbowsymphony.com, Eyetricks.com, 3Dglasses.com, how clever is that name.Or just go to our NEWSNIGHT Web site, cnn.com/newsnight and all the numbers and links to the instructions to make your own pair using blue and red cellophane. And, remember, if you do make your own the left eye should be red and the right eye should be blue. Why that is we will explain it on another night. That's next Friday. This is going to be cool or it's going to be a disaster but in either case it's the kind of thing you want to watch right here.Ahead on the program tonight back to earth, a letter from Saddam, what the Iraqi leader had to say after he was deposed.Plus a look at some of the secret tunnels being built to smuggle weapons into the Gaza Strip.And, later, a look at a new way of keeping track of illegal aliens due for deportation.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Iraq today, U.S. soldiers killed eight suspected insurgents but the bad guys got their licks in as well killing at least seven people, wounding 28 others in two separate attacks all of this in the Sunni Triangle where opposition to the occupation has been and remains strong. It is where Saddam Hussein was born, where he was captured one month ago, which brings us to a document found in his hideout and what it suggests about the anti-American attacks.Here's CNN's David Ensor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): The document was captured along with Saddam Hussein and it was written by him after he lost power, U.S. officials say. It warns his supporters to be cautious about linking up with foreign jihadists, foreigners coming into Iraq to attack American troops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While he, himself, is not being terribly cooperative the documents found with him, the information found around him are being helpful.
ENSOR: Senior al Qaeda figures under interrogation have said Osama bin Laden refused their suggestions before the Iraq War to work with Saddam Hussein, according to knowledgeable officials.The former Iraqi leader's warning against cooperating too closely with the jihadists is another piece of evidence challenging the Bush administration's assertions before the war about Saddam's ties to terrorists.
BUSH: We know he's got ties with al Qaeda. He's got connections with al Qaeda.
ENSOR: U.S. officials do warn against making too much of the Saddam document. They say there is evidence of some limited cooperation against coalition forces in Iraq between Ba'athists die- hards and foreign jihadists and that not all foreign fighters in Iraq are Islamic extremists. Meantime, there is more progress against insurgents attacking coalition forces. The arrest of No. 54 of the most wanted Khamis Sirhan al-Muhammad.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: He was an enabler for many of the resistance attacks on Iraqis.
ENSOR: U.S. forces also took in four nephews of the man they most want to find, Saddam's close confidante Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Saddam's document is not conclusive evidence that his supporters and al Qaeda have not cooperated much but it does appear to complicate things for those who argue that they may have -- Aaron.
BROWN: But there are a number of things here. There were assertions made about the relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam prior to the war. A lot changed after the war. Why in this document was Saddam concerned about joining up with the jihadists?
ENSOR: What I'm told is that he said something about not trusting their motives and not thinking that his supporters should believe that they are motivated in the same way. So, he simply, it's oil and water his view of al Qaeda and people like that. He didn't trust them nor did they trust him. That's basically the tenor of it.
BROWN: David, thank you as always, David Ensor in Washington tonight.In Israel tonight, four families are without their sons and, in Gaza, two children, young children, are without their mother. A Palestinian mother and Israeli sons died when the woman walked up to a military checkpoint on the Gaza border and set off a bomb, a bomb that killed herself, a security guard and three soldiers. Not one of the soldiers was over the age of 22.In a videotape made earlier, the bomber herself, just 22, said I always wanted to be the first woman to carry out a martyr attack where parts of my body can fly all over. She leaves behind a 3-year-old son and a daughter 18 months old, a depressing picture where children are concerned and it isn't the only depressing picture today.Here's CNN's John Vause.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Deep below the surface and more than a quarter mile long the tunnel stretches from Egypt to Gaza. It is cramped, barely enough room for a grown man to crawl.
LT. AVIV, IDF BATTLE ENGINEER: The children build it.VAUSE: Children?
AVIV: (Unintelligible.)
VAUSE: According to Israeli intelligence the tunnels are used to smuggle weapons, ammunition and drugs into Gaza for groups like Hamas and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They earn money from the drugs and with this money they pay for the ammunition and the weapons that they buy.
VAUSE: The Gaza entrance to the tunnel was found in a house in a Bedouin village not far from the town of Rafah. Israeli soldiers say when they arrived the men fled leaving behind two women, ten children, digging equipment and an intercom system. No one was arrested. The families left before CNN could talk to them.The Israelis believe it takes up to three months to dig a tunnel like this. It took a ton of explosives to destroy it in an instant. And the tunnels are apparently not just for smuggling. Not far away CNN watched as Israeli soldiers found one under a road used by military vehicles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This is an easy place for them to come and dig a tunnel, put an explosive device under the ground so that our forces will not see it. When the patrol comes by they blow it up.
VAUSE: Israel believes Palestinian militant groups are constantly digging in the area. Last month they tunneled under an Israeli border outpost in Gaza and tried to blow it up.The video appears to have been made by Hamas. No one was hurt in the blast but the outpost was badly damaged. For years the Israelis have been trying to stop the tunnels, a near impossible job they say because for many families in Rafah smuggling is their only source of income.John Vause, CNN, Jerusalem
.(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still to come tonight on NEWSNIGHT the price of loyalty. The author of the new book with former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill that's caused such an uproar joins us, a break first.On CNN this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Iowa tonight, it's all about numbers and offense, five days, seven candidates, 99 counties, a sea of sharp elbows -- OK, 14 elbows to be exact, 12, if you subtract John Edwards, who is banking on nice to win votes. If you're really counting, the sharpest jabs came from the man trailing, though just barely, the front-runner, Howard Dean, in the final stretch to Monday's caucuses. No. 2 in the Iowa polls pulled some punches, but just barely. Again, CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): With everything but a hi-ho, Silver, Howard Dean is cranking it up.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is the people- powered express.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CROWLEY: In Iowa, it is time for closing arguments. DEAN: We have had enough of what goes on in Washington. We need a change in this party and we need a change in this country.
CROWLEY: Kicking off his optimistically named Victory Tour, Richard Gephardt has also had enough. Dean, he said, has changed his views on gun control, trade and Medicare to make himself the life of the party. He did not exactly call him a liar.
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To me, there is no room for the cynical politics of manufactured anger and false conviction.
CROWLEY: In a high-stakes struggle for an Iowa first, the gracious gentleman from Missouri let loose. He didn't call Dean unelectable, but he walked around the edges.
GEPHARDT: Now we find out he thinks there's an upside to terrorists running the Palestinian Authority. And we thought George W. Bush was unprepared to be president of the United States.
CROWLEY: Dean, battling to secure his lead over Gephardt in Iowa, was out of state most of Wednesday, trying to push back against a threat to his grip on New Hampshire.
DEAN: Look, I think General Clark is a good guy, but I truly believe he's a Republican.
CROWLEY: As other campaigns ramped up the rhetoric, John Kerry, a war hero and veteran senator who has emphasized his willingness to fight, waxed downright poetic.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't come here today just to offer my resume. That's not what this is about. I offer my gut. I offer my heart. I offer my efforts that have sometimes taken great risks. CROWLEY: Kerry's above-the-fray tone comes as polls indicate his disappointing campaign has picked up a little traction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: Still, Kerry knows full well, you cannot count on those polls. There are only two certainties now, Aaron. One is that this race is very close, everyone within the margin of error in the top tier. And almost anything can happen -- Aaron.
BROWN: What's the weather supposed to be like Monday?
CROWLEY: You know, cold.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY: We asked somebody and they said it was too early to tell whether it was going to snow. They are expecting some sort of snow in here earlier. BROWN: Yes.
CROWLEY: But I'm not sure about Monday. So it will make a big difference. The sort of weather parsing is that, if it snows, if it's horrible weather, that hurts Dick Gephardt, John Kerry, because their voters tend to be a little older -- their caucusers tend to be a little bit older.
BROWN: OK, well, a little cold isn't going to scare those Iowans, but the snow might. Thank you very much.
CROWLEY: Right. No.BROWN: Candy Crowley in Des Moines tonight. The war in Iraq continues to occupy a enormous chunk of the debate on the campaign trail in Iowa. Adding fuel to the fire this week, of course, the debut of the provocative book about Paul O'Neill's two years as secretary of the treasury in the Bush administration. What he told the book's author has set off a bit of a commotion -- a bit -- which ended with Mr. O'Neill backing away from some of the comments. Ron Suskind is the author of "The Price of Loyalty." We're glad to have him with us tonight.Do you interpret the things that the secretary said yesterday on "The Today Show" and other places, I gather, as backing off?
RON SUSKIND, AUTHOR, "THE PRICE OF LOYALTY": No, I don't, Aaron. He said it on "The Today Show."He expressed regret that that one statement about a blind man in a roomful of deaf people was so vivid that it eclipsed all the rest and all those quotes and all the documents and everything else that was in the book. That was his regret. He wished that wouldn't happen. But, obviously
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: And he pulled back a bit on the Iraq stuff, too, it seemed to me.
SUSKIND: Well, I think that was just Paul O'Neill's way of starting a long explanation of things. I think it's very clear in the book that O'Neill was surprised, as were others in the meeting. This is not just one man's testimony. A lot of folks were in the meeting, surprised that, in the first NSC meeting, it was all about Iraq and what to do about Saddam.And very quickly, the issue of using the U.S. military for regime change, that was a big change. The Clinton administration wanted regime change, but didn't talk about employing the military in this forceful way.
BROWN: Employing the military or employing ground troops?
SUSKIND: Ground troops, yes. Specifically, ground troops.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Because, obviously, the military was there.
SUSKIND: Yes.
BROWN: Is he -- have you talked to him over the last couple days?
SUSKIND: Every few hours.
BROWN: OK. Is he -- do you think he's being leaned on?
SUSKIND: No, I don't. I don't.I can say emphatically he hasn't. He had a call from Rumsfeld a few nights ago. And Don -- I think Rumsfeld mentioned that in the press conference. And Rumsfeld sort of said, this is a sour-grapes book. And Paul said, well, some people may see it that way. I don't. I see it's a book about what's wrong with the political system, etcetera.
BROWN: Yes.
SUSKIND: And there was a conversation about some of the things in the book. And that was it. It was very polite, I understand, with Rumsfeld.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: They're old buddies.
SUSKIND: About 30 years. BROWN: Yes. Is he -- you know him pretty well through all of this, and maybe this is a level of candor you're not prepared for -- is he as naive about some of this stuff as he comes off, because when he said the other day that he -- there was this discussion about how people would see it as a betrayal, and he seemed befuddled by the idea that anyone would, is he a naive guy about this?
SUSKIND: He's not naive. I think that's important to stress. People who know him will say that. He actually has a very fine-tuned political sense. You see it in the documents that are in the book. He writes a killer document to the president, the first day O'Neill is in office, about knee-capping the Democrats on the tax cut. The difference is this, is that he believes very strongly that that should not guide his behavior, political calculations. So sometimes he kind of shrugs. That was more of a shrug. Why would people worry if I simply told the truth? He believes almost in this mystical power of truth. For a reporter, it's lovely.
BROWN: Well, let's talk about truth. Truth is an interesting thing here, because the rest of us are left to evaluate it.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: So you and he create an impression of the president who is -- these are my words, not yours -- a kind of empty suit, in many respects. Others in the administration, the defense secretary came out the other day, and we heard his old friend the commerce secretary the other day, and the FBI director today said, no, he's incredibly engaged. He asks all the right questions. How do I evaluate that? Where is the evidence one way or another that allows me and readers and all these people watching to figure out who is telling the truth?
SUSKIND: I think a key thing you need to think about is the positioning of the speaker. There are very few people who have left this administration who are willing to talk and can speak in what we call an unmanaged way. John Diiulio, who I talked to in another story, did. And Paul O'Neill is the prime inner circle member who is left and can speak. Frankly, we'll have other people leave. And, hopefully, some of them will speak. And I think, at that point, I'm convinced we're going to get corroboration for what O'Neill has said. Others in the administration have echoed off the record what O'Neill has said as well. Otherwise, it wouldn't be in the book.
BROWN: You have obviously caught a wave of sorts for a writer and a journalist. It's been, I gather, a fascinating week. It's nice to see you, as always.
SUSKIND: Yes. A lot of fun. A lot of fun. BROWN: I'll bet it is. It's a nice piece of work.
SUSKIND: Yes.
BROWN: Thank you. And people will evaluate it as they do.
SUSKIND: Be well.
BROWN: Thank you. You, too. Ahead on the program, the Enron case, a major development. A key figure pleads guilty -- two of them, in fact -- which could mean big trouble -- which could mean big trouble for former bosses. We take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In Houston today, after weeks of legal wrangling, former Enron executive Andrew Fastow pleaded guilty, and so did his wife, Lea. Between them, they face more than 100 counts. They pled guilty to three. This makes Mr. Fastow the highest-ranking Enron executive to be convicted in the scandal. The federal prosecutor in the case said the guilty plea sent a clear message -- quote -- "If you cross a clear line, we're going to hammer you.'Here's CNN's Jen Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Andrew and Lea Fastow were silent as they arrived at federal court in Houston. But, inside, at separate hearings, one word said it all, guilty. Andrew Fastow, Enron's former CFO, pleaded guilty to two counts of conspiracy to commit securities fraud and wire fraud. He agreed to cooperate with the government's investigation, serve 10 years in prison and forfeit more than $29 million in assets.
LESLIE CALDWELL, ENRON TASK FORCE: This is very significant to the Enron Task Force, because,for the first time, the Enron Task Force now has a seat on the 50th floor of Enron. And whatever Andrew Fastow knows about what went on, on the 50th floor, the Enron Task Force will now know as well.
ROGERS: For her part, Fastow's wife, Lea, pleaded guilty to one charge of filing a false income tax return in which she failed to report income from an Enron-related partnership. Her deal with the government calls for a five-month prison sentence followed up with five months of home confinement.
MIKE DEGUERIN, ATTORNEY: There really is life after Enron for all of us, we believe. And we're trying to get through this process as best we can.
ROGERS: The process for the Enron Task Force continues. And with Mr. Fastow now cooperating, many see the investigation moving up the Enron hierarchy. So far, the two most powerful men at Enron, Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling, have not been charged. And both deny any wrongdoing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROGERS: In fact, Ken Lay's attorney actually showed up here at court to come and watch Andrew Fastow enter his guilty plea. When asked whether or not he thought the Fastows' deal was a setback for his client, he said, no, he thought it was a step forward, one towards resolution -- Aaron. BROWN: Jen, thank you -- Jen Rogers in Houston tonight. The "MONEYLINE Roundup" tonight starts with a little bit of a business deal. Seems like the old days here. J.P. Morgan Chase is buying out Bank One for $50 billion. The combined entity, if that's the right word for it, would have assets totaling $1.1 trillion, just a little business deal turned today. And on Wall Street, just one way to sum up the markets on a day like this, to the moon, yes, to the moon, everything up today on the street. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, electronic ankle bracelets being used not for convicted criminals, but on immigrants facing deportation, a look at a new INS program when we come back.This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On a day when the headlines are taken up with technology and the outer reaches with missions to Mars and colonies in space, there are other stories involving technology tonight. It is applied technology in the most literal sense of the phrase, less to do with human aspirations than human shortcomings and very much in the here and now. From Miami tonight, CNN's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six-year-old Shirley Sandivar doesn't understand what's happening to her family. She only knows it makes her cry.
LOURDES SANDIVAR, MOTHER: The kid is cry too much. She said me, mommy, this is my country. I want to stay here. My friends, my teachers,they are here. Mommy, I don't want to stay to Peru.
ZARRELLA: A week ago, Lourdes Sandivar was met by U.S. immigration officers after she dropped off her children at this elementary school in Hollywood, Florida. After living in the U.S. for 10 years, Lourdes and her husband are awaiting deportation because a political asylum claim they filed a decade ago and follow-up appeals have now been denied. Lourdes' husband is now being held at a federal detention center because, immigration officials say, he didn't cooperate when ordered to turn in his passport.
JOHN MATA, BUREAU OF IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Because of their evasive behaviors, because they didn't respond to our letters, because, after we talked to him on the phone, they changed their address without notifying us.
ZARRELLA: She was allowed to stay home with her children, but had to agree to wear this electronic monitoring device around her ankle.
JORGE RIVERA, ATTORNEY FOR SANDIVAR: That's how immigration is going to be able to ensure that these people don't disappear. But, then again, the question is, how humane is this? Do we want to treat immigrants as criminals?
ZARRELLA: Besides wearing the monitor, Sandivar had to agree not to leave Broward County without permission. And she can only leave her home between the hours of 6:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. And her phone calls are monitored. Sandivar says she feels like a criminal.
SANDIVAR: I work very hard in this country, very, very hard. I pay my taxes. I don't have the criminal.
ZARRELLA: The ankle bracelet is a pilot program being tested in three cities, Miami, Detroit, and Anchorage. There are 43 people in the Miami program. (on camera): Immigration officials told us the program is anything but heavy-handed or excessive. If anything, they say, it's a very humane approach, allowing at least one family member to stay at home. (voice-over): Immigration officials say, for those who qualify, it's completely voluntary. For Lourdes Sandivar and any other clear- thinking individual, the choice between federal detention and an ankle bracelet is a no-brainer. John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, and an unusual amount of time for that tonight, which has me -- going to move fairly slowly. Those of you who have had trouble keeping up, this is your night. "The International Herald Tribune," published in Paris by "The New York Times." For those of you traveling abroad, you will find this in your hotel, we suspect, or hope or wish you had. They put J.P. Morgan Chase and the Bank One merger on the front page. "Middle East: Young Mother Kills Four Israelis in Suicide Blast," a truly awful story. And if you step back from the politics of it, it's awful all around, frankly
.The story I liked was actually in today's "New York Times." "Filling in Hockey's Toothless Grin," a story about how dentistry has changed the face -- no pun intended -- of hockey players. Got a great picture of Bobby Hull. You probably can't see that, because it's a little small. Can you see that? There it is. I can't see that because I don't have my glasses on.
"The Boston Herald" leads, "Frrrigid." It's cold here in the Northeast. And, of course, if we're cold here in the Northeast, we want to make sure all of you know about it, because this is the center of the universe. "Iowa Race Tied." Also, "Kerry Surges into Dem Three-For-All." That's pretty good. I like that headline.
"The Jerusalem Post," obviously, leads with the suicide bombing. "Female Bomber Kills Four Israelis." I had a viewer -- sometimes annoying viewer, to be perfectly honest. I like all the rest of you, but this one complained that I was using "The Jerusalem Post," thought that was just politically unfair. Leave me alone.
"The Miami Herald" leads with space. "Bush Into the Cosmos" is the headline. That's a nice story. They also put -- that's a nice headline. And they put Enron on the front page. "Ex-Enron Executive and Wife Plead Guilty."How we doing on time, Mr. Gorman (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1:20.
BROWN: 1:20. OK."The Philadelphia Inquirer." I'm coming to like this paper, you know? I don't know why I said you know there. It just made me sound like my daughter. "Bush Launches Plan for Moon Mars Quest" is the headline. "His proposal for years to come included new exploration vehicles to replace shuttles. Cost details, though, were few." I like that part of the story. Two school stories and perhaps related. "City Schools Faulted on Quelling Violence," unpleasant news, that.
"Philadelphia Will Ban Sodas From the Sale of Schools." Maybe all that sugar has gotten kids all wound up and that is why they're fighting with one another. This is the best story I've seen today. I haven't read it all. This is "The Times, "The Reporter Times,"
"The Times Reporter." I'm not sure. Dover and New Philadelphia, Ohio. "God, Please Help Me." It is a reporter's account of an execution in the state of Ohio. And it is gripping. I don't know if they have a Web site, but they probably do.
From that to this, "The Park City Record" in Park City, Utah. This is Wednesday, Thursday and Friday's edition. "Dim the Lights, Start the Movies." Film Festival in Park City are ready to go. And the whole front page just about is on the Park City film festival, or the Sundance Film Festival, including this kind of goofy shot of a guy eating something. I'm not sure what this is.
And "The Chicago Sun-Times" will end it all. The weather tomorrow in Chicago tomorrow, by the way, is -- I think we've fallen in love with something -- "demoralizing," 24. That will be a heat wave for those of us in the center of the universe. We'll wrap up the day in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before we leave you, a quick update of our top story tonight, President Bush unveiling a plan to put the shuttle back in space, base on the moon and eventually astronauts on Mars. The president asked Congress for funding to the tune of just an extra billion dollars a year for NASA, not nearly enough, according to some critics, too much, say others, considering all the demands on the federal budget and the deficit these days.Tomorrow night on this program, the Web site that helps bring people together. Computer geeks, pagans, left-handed jugglers, you names it, they got it. But, lately, it's also become a key factor politics. It's MeetUp.com. And it is "On the Rise." And it is on NEWSNIGHT tomorrow. How good are we? That sounds like a Friday story on Thursday .Here's Bill Hemmer, who stayed late tonight to give us a look at what's coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, thank you.Tomorrow morning here on "AMERICAN MORNING," Senator Ted Kennedy delivers yet again a blistering attack regarding the war in Iraq. We'll talk to the senator. Does he think the president lied to the country? And, if so, how will this play out in the election over the next 10 months?We'll have it for you 7:00 a.m. Eastern time tomorrow morning here -- Aaron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's a good booking.We'll see you tomorrow, too, 10:00 Eastern time. Until then, good night for all of us.
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