Tuesday, December 2, 2003

Police Search for Ohio Sniper; Suspect Arrested, Police Search for Missing Woman; Controversy Brews Over Sealed Dean Papers

Police Search for Ohio Sniper; Suspect Arrested, Police Search for Missing Woman; Controversy Brews Over Sealed Dean Papers
Aired December 2, 2003 - 22:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. Sometimes we look at the program and it all fits together like a completed jigsaw puzzle, one story logically leading to the next, which leads to the next and the next. Tonight isn't one of those nights. Tonight seems to be a series of pieces, all good, but somehow all unrelated. A sniper here, an abduction there, memories of 9/11 in this corner, a breakthrough in race relations in another. If there is some theme in it all, we don't yet see it. Rather than spending any more time searching, we'll just lay it out there, beginning as we always do, with "The Whip." And the whip begins in Ohio tonight, 12 shootings and much mystery. CNN's Kris Osborn on the sniper story. Kris, a headline. 


KRIS OSBORN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Franklin County officials say there are now 12 shootings under investigation and that they are all related. Additionally, they've linked four of them through ballistic evidence -- Aaron. BROWN: Kris, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight. Cincinnati, Ohio, next and a new look at the moments leading up to that fatal police beating, which were also caught on videotape. CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Cincinnati tonight.Ed, a headline. 


ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Aaron. Just a short while ago, Cincinnati police here releasing video images from nine cameras in the White Castle restaurant parking lot that show the moments before and during the scuffle that led to the death of a 41-year-old man here in Cincinnati. Now the question is how will all the people here in Cincinnati interpret what they see. 


BROWN: Ed, thank you.On to North Dakota as we move west. The search for Dru Sjodin and the arrest of a sex offender, possibly in connection with her disappearance. CNN's Jeff Flock with that tonight. Jeff, a headline. 


JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, it's cold in North Dakota, too, where indeed authorities arrested a man today they think may be responsible for the disappearance of 22-year-old Dru Sjodin. However, they have not found what they really want to find in this case, and that is Ms. Sjodin herself. She's now missing ten days. 


BROWN: Jeff, thank you. And I suspect it's cold in Iowa, too, a possible bump on the campaign trail for Democratic front-runner now, Howard Dean. CNN's Candy Crowley spoke with the governor today. So a headline from you.


CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the question is, how much information does the public have a right to know about the man who wants to be president? That's the question Howard Dean is wrestling with. And we're not talking about the private life of a public person, but the public life of a public person -- Aaron. 


BROWN: And we thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly. Also ahead tonight, new terror warning in Africa. We'll have the details. We'll also look at the increasing pressure on both the Israelis and the Palestinians to reach some sort of peace deal or at least start talking peace again. Later, word that this might be the last holiday shopping season for a classic American toy store. We'll also have the story of Sylvester Croom, the new head football coach at Mississippi State and the first black man to ever hold that position in that hotbed of football, the south, Eastern Conference and the emphasis, of course, on the south. "Segment 7" tonight focuses on efforts to preserve debris from the World Trade Center for use in museums. It is a lovely story. And how else but lovely would describe our nightly trip through morning papers. All that and more in the hour ahead. We begin with what's been happening on a five-mile stretch of the interstate in central Ohio. People have been getting shot at. One person has died, 12 shootings in all. Up to this point authorities have been understandably reluctant to make more of it than might be there, but today that changed. Here's CNN's Kris Osborn. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 


OSBORN (voice-over): Law enforcement is now saying there is a connection between all 12 shootings along Ohio's Interstate 270 in this area. 


STEVE MARTIN, FRANKLIN COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPUTY: And we are comfortable collectively that those 12 are related. OSBORN: But Franklin County authorities say they have ballistic matches on only four of the shootings so far, including one at a nearby elementary school on November 11. 


MARTIN: We recently submitted bullet fragments taken from a shooting incident at Hamilton Township Elementary School, 1105 Rathmel Road (ph), Columbus on November 11, has been positively linked to the weapon used to kill Mrs. Knisley. 


OSBORN: Gail Knisley is the only death in the shooting. The other new ballistic match is from the bullet that smashed through truck driver Bill Bridge's window on November 19. His van was among the shootings being investigated by authorities.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I come off of 23 north there and on to 270 westbound and I was listening to an excellent blues guitar player and I'm thinking, I'm almost home, you know. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, boom! The window blows in on me and there was a real loud bang. 


OSBORN: A joint task force, including FBI and ATF agents, is combing through wooded areas in search of more bullet fragments from this string of shootings, something made more challenging by the high number of hunters and recreational gun users in the area. Describing these shootings as intentional, law enforcement officials say security efforts around Columbus are expanding to include neighborhoods and schools. 


MARTIN: We'll extend our protection, is what we'll do basically. It took it off the interstate and also it off of State Route 23 and puts it more in a residential type setting now. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)


BROWN: The Ohio story reported tonight by CNN's Kris Osborn. A little bit south in Ohio, federal officials today began reviewing a fatal police beating in Cincinnati. The beating, you may remember -- how could you forget -- was caught on videotape. Tonight we learn from police that other cameras had a look at the moments leading up to the incident. So we go back to CNN's Ed Lavandera, who joins us tonight from Cincinnati. Ed, good evening.


LAVANDERA: Hi, Aaron. The video images that Cincinnati police released just a short while ago here are not from the police car. These are from nine video cameras stationed throughout the parking lot at the White Castle restaurant, where this altercation took place Sunday morning. Now the video images essentially capture the first, about the 20 minutes before Nathaniel Jones was killed in the altercation with the six police officers here in Cincinnati. And what you see throughout most of it, it was the moments where Nathaniel Jones drives into the parking lot, begins to walk around the restaurant, at one point going inside, hugs an employee that he knows there. Clearly from the video images that you see, Nathaniel Jones is under the influence of something. Authorities here are saying that he was dancing around, at one point even walking outside, walking as if he were some sort of soldier, bumping into a wall, falling over, then rolling down a hill. That startled some of the employees that worked at the White Castle restaurant, prompting them to call authorities. After the fire department showed up and tried to treat Nathaniel Jones, a short while after that, police officers show up. And at one point in the video image, you see one of the officers go to the back of their police unit and reach for an orange bag. Now, police here suspect that one of those officers might have been going for a pepper ball gun or a bean ball bag shotgun, weapons that they use to try to subdue people. They stress that these are less than lethal weapons that they can use in these types of altercations. At that very moment as well, you see Nathaniel Jones walk out of the image. It's very hard to see, but it's from the camera in the drive-through window. You see him lunge forward toward where the officers are. Authorities here say this had been after he had been told three times to step back and back up. And that's when the altercation happened. Authorities here stressing this evening that they hope that when people see these video images, they will understand that if Mr. Jones had acted differently, perhaps none of this would have happened. Now, we do understand that authorities here have shown these images to a group of African-American ministers that met with officials just a short while ago, earlier this afternoon. Not exactly sure how they reacted to these video images. What we suspect, we will be hearing from them in the hours and perhaps tomorrow, as well -- Aaron. 


BROWN: Give me a best feel for where the city of Cincinnati is tonight, reminding viewers, as we must, that just a bit less than three years ago, there were race riots in the city over an incident where a young black man was shot by a police officer. 


LAVANDERA: I spent most of the day today speaking with a group of African-American ministers here in Cincinnati. I got the sense from them there is a tempered reaction from them. They really want -- what they stress and what they really want is a full investigation. One of the things that they're angry about is that the authorities here have come so quickly out before the investigation is even wrapped up to exonerate these officers. That has angered them at this point, and that's what they're angry about. They want the process just to work its way through, and if something, some sort of disciplinary action or criminal charges need to be brought forward, they hope that that would be done. But they say that can only be done if authorities take their time and weigh everything carefully. 


BROWN: Not trying to walk you in any direction here, but just give me and give viewers a feel for the tone of the language from, I guess, both communities today, from the police community, the government community and from the African-American community. 


LAVANDERA: Well, there is a growing echo from the African- American community, perhaps. We've heard a lot of calls for the resignation of the police chief here. At the same time, the police chief saying that, no, he will not back down, he will see this investigation through. So from the legal side, the law enforcement side of this, they are still standing by how these officers acted. In echoing what the captain -- one of the captains here at the police department said this evening, that if Mr. Jones had acted differently -- in that very split moment where you see Nathaniel Jones kind of lunge toward authorities, that was the moment, they say, that changed everything in that altercation. 


BROWN: Again, this is the video -- Ed, I'm not sure if you can see this, but we're looking at the video from inside the restaurant. This was very early Sunday morning, late Saturday night, Sunday morning. And this is what it led to. Mr. Jones, who weighed about 350 pounds, clearly -- I don't think anybody disputes the fact that he went after police. Ultimately, the question will come down to whether, faced with a man who was on drugs, according to the coroner at least, had drugs in his system and a sizable man, whether there was a way to subdue him, other than the way they did. Obviously, the hood of the car makes it difficult to see everything that's going on. But there is no question that Mr. Jones does at one point or several points go after police. 


LAVANDERA: Yes. And that's what many of the African-American members here in this community in Cincinnati say that -- they say, hey, listen, even though he was perhaps on drugs -- they have authorities coming out today, the medical examiner saying traces of cocaine and PCP were found inside of Nathaniel Jones' car -- that despite all of that, that condition, it didn't have to lead to this. That's what many of the members of the African-American community here in Cincinnati are troubled by the most. BROWN: Ed, thanks a lot. I know you worked late tonight to get the tape. We appreciate that. Ed Lavandera in Cincinnati tonight.An item today caught our eye in the "Grand Forks Herald." "Volunteers needed," it read, "for a search tomorrow morning." They'll be looking for Dru Sjodin, who was in the middle of a cell phone conversation with her boyfriend when the line went dead and she vanished. That was ten days ago. Tonight, there's a repeat sex offender in custody in connection with the case, but there's also that headline in the paper because Dru Sjodin is out there somewhere, still. Here's CNN's Jeff Flock. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)


ALLAN SJODIN, DRU SJODIN'S FATHER: Honey, we're still looking for you. We know you're there. FLOCK (voice-over): A father with hope. 


SJODIN: We're just overwhelmed with this. FLOCK: Authorities with a possible break in the disappearance of 22-year-old Dru Sjodin. 


CHIEF JOHN PACKETT, GRAND FORKS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Alfonso Rodriguez Jr. was arrested at his home in Crookston for the charge of kidnapping, which is an A Felony in North Dakota. 


FLOCK: Fifty-year-old Alfonso Rodriguez, arrested in this house, where he'd been living with his mother after spending nearly all of the past three decades in either treatment or prison for violent sex crimes. (on camera) Though they won't say how they got it, police investigators say they have developed information that Mr. Rodriguez was in the parking lot of this shopping mall the night Dru disappeared. It is that information, they say, that led them to make the arrest. 


PACKETT: He is a level three sex offender in Minnesota. 


FLOCK (voice-over): Grand Forks prosecutor Peter Welte would give few details, but according to Minnesota corrections officials, Rodriguez' record includes a conviction in 1974 for attempted rape and aggravated rape. He did time and treatment then. But within days of being released six years later, stabbed a woman and tried to force her into his car. He did 23 years for aggravated kidnapping and assault and was released in May of this year. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dru, we will find you. 


FLOCK: Investigators put divers in the Red River near Rodriguez's home in Crookston, Minnesota, east of Grand Forks and also released a picture of his maroon 2002 Mercury Sable, saying they believe they have the evidence to tie him to the disappearance of the former homecoming queen, who has now been gone for ten days. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)FLOCK: Aaron, there is no indication at all that Mr. Rodriguez is cooperating with authorities. And in fact, that search -- the big search that you mentioned set for tomorrow, some might suggest it is, perhaps, in part designed to send a message to whoever is responsible for the abduction, if you know where she is, tell us now, because we are going to sooner or later find her -- Aaron. 


BROWN: Just back to the suspect for a minute. Is there in either -- well, I guess -- he was living in Minnesota, in Crookston. So is there a Megan's Law where people in the community were aware of his background? 


FLOCK: They were very much aware of it. In fact, there was a community meeting about Mr. Rodriguez there. One of the ladies that lives down the street said she told her children never to go out in the yard when he was around. So he was known, and he was there since May in that community. He, of course, had to register, being a sex offender. And so he was well known. But certainly no one had any indication that he might have been responsible for this. And of course at this point, he is in custody and that's where it stands right now. 


BROWN: Jeff, thank you very much. Jeff Flock in Grand Forks, in North Dakota, tonight. Politics next a little farther south. Democrat Howard Dean coming under fire for sealing some of his records for the time he was the governor of Vermont, stuff for the history books in the years to come but also traditionally red meat for opposition research, starting right about now. Just ask Michael Dukakis, Willie Horton, which is not to say that Governor Dean has any Willie Hortons to hide or anything else. Only that the issue, privacy to some, secrecy to others, is now in play. Here's CNN's Candy Crowley. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you think we'll do it? 


HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just ask headquarters. 


CROWLEY (voice-over): It was a mini-document drama. What's in those records, and why can't the public see them? 


DEAN: We'd like to be accommodating, but the laws are very, very complicated. 


CROWLEY: The Dean camp says about 60 percent of the documents and records from his eight years as governor of Vermont are public; 40 percent were sealed when he left office. 


DEAN: There are provisions for protecting some of the people who said things to me, gave me advice during that time. Whatever we've done, it's within Vermont law. 


CROWLEY: The former governor says he doesn't even know what's in those records, but last January he wasn't taking any chances. 


DEAN: Now there are future political considerations. We wouldn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor.


CROWLEY: There is such a thing as being too candid. Dean operatives dismiss the sealed documents story as old news. Steeled by the fourth stop of the day, 


UNCLE (ph), the candidate was checking out his options. 


DEAN: We don't know what's in there. I don't. The lawyers do. I don't. So we've got to find out all of that kind of information. We don't have that information. 


CROWLEY (on camera): So you're going to find that out? DEAN: We're going to find that out. 


CROWLEY (voice-over): The up side is, reporters don't pester also-rans, and Republicans pay them no heed. But take a look. This is the Republican Party chairman visiting Vermont, complaining about the sealed records. 


DEAN: Very flattered to have the attention. Evidently, perhaps we weren't the candidate they wanted after all. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)


CROWLEY: There's no suggestion there is anything in those sealed records that might hurt former Governor Dean. However, that is probably what Michael Dukakis thought when he unsealed his records, giving his rivals months of things to chew on -- Aaron. 


BROWN: Well, we'll take our chance with the snow and wind for a second. There was a flap back awhile ago involving President Bush and his records, his papers when he was governor. That he, as I recall, had turned over to his father's presidential library and where they were being held. What's the status of the president's pages? 


CROWLEY: The status we are told by an archivist in Texas is that those records are open. There are certain things that you have to use a Freedom of Information Act to file for getting them out. And the state archivist looks at those. And there are things that are redacted, names and things like that. But with some effort you can get at them, we're told. 


BROWN: Now, let me just ask for your opinion on something. 


CROWLEY: Uh-oh. 


BROWN: Yes, I know. Does any of this matter? I mean, are voters going to -- Particularly voters who feel strongly about Governor Dean. Are they going to care one way or the other about these papers? What does your instinct tell you? 


CROWLEY: The voters -- my instincts tells me that the voters for Governor Dean, you can feel it out here, you can feel it in New Hampshire. They're very passionate about Howard Dean. And in essence what we see is every time there's something about him, it backfires and makes them more passionate. So it won't move those people. Will it move people who are perhaps thinking about it? Not this alone. If you add up some other things, and if the drip keeps going, maybe it does. But at the moment it's not going to fuel any kind of departure from Dean, and those people are still going to come out in the Iowa snow and vote for him on caucus day. BROWN: Warm up, Candy. Thank you very much. Candy Crowley in Iowa tonight.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, Africa on alert. The latest on a new terror threat in Kenya. Later we'll see how historians are trying to preserving some of the debris collected after the collapse of the World Trade Center towers on 9/11. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


BROWN: It used to be that government terror warnings would come with a built-in footnote, a warning, if you will, that the information was vague, non-specific, given mostly out of an abundance of caution. Perhaps the intelligence is getting better. A recent series of warnings accurately predicted trouble in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. And the latest warning from the State Department doesn't hedge. It is specific, very, for a good reason. Here's CNN's Andrea Koppel. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In West Nairobi, military police were on alert, following anonymous threats against a British bank and Dutch airline. Another threat came in an anonymous e-mail to the U.S. Embassy in Kenya's capital. A State Department public announcement said the terrorist threats were aimed at American and Western interests in downtown Nairobi, specifically targeting the Stanley Hotel and the Hilton Hotel. The announcement notes this information has not been corroborated. But according to the U.S. ambassador to Kenya, the e- mail specified Wednesday as the target date for an attack. 


J. ADAM ERELI, SPOKESMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: It anonymous warning also said that the timing of the threat was for the next several days. So given that specificity, it was incumbent upon us to take the steps that we took. 


KOPPEL: A popular tourist destination, Kenya has been targeted by al Qaeda terrorists before: last year in Mombasa, when suicide bombers killed more than a dozen people at an Israeli-owned hotel and attempted to bring down an Israeli passenger jet with shoulder-fired missiles. And in 1998, when suicide bombers attacked the U.S. embassy, killing 219 people. Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia, just weeks after al Qaeda is believed to have carried out suicide bombings at a mostly Arab housing compound in Riyadh, the U.S. embassy issued fresh warnings. 


ERELI: The Sidar Village Housing Compound in Riyadh has been under active surveillance by terrorist elements and that other Western compounds within the kingdom may also be targeted. KOPPEL (on camera): For that reason, the State Department is urging Americans to avoid all non-essential travel to the Saudi kingdom and to Kenya, and is warning those Americans already in both of those countries to remain vigilant, keep a low profile, and to avoid places where westerners are known to congregate. Andrea Koppel, CNN, at the State Department. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)


BROWN: A couple of other items from around the world. Today the Pentagon said today an American who has been held as an enemy combatant for two years since he was captured in Afghanistan will be allowed to see a lawyer. Yasser Hamdi was born in Louisiana, was with Taliban fighters when he was captured. He's being held at a brig in Charleston, South Carolina. He's never been charged. A few days back the government made a similar decision to allow lawyers to see the other American being held without charges, Jose Padilla. In Iraq, some confusing reports today concerning one of the U.S. military's most wanted Iraqis, Izzat Ibrahim Al-Douri. U.S. forces did capture a man named Al-Douri, Mohammad Al-Douri (ph), which sparked rumors that Ibrahim, one of the highest ranking members of the Saddam regime, had been caught. Tonight the coalition says, no, still at large. Nothing uncertain about this, though. In Baghdad, the first of four massive bronze busts of Saddam Hussein was removed from the republican palace. Each one, 30 feet tall, thought to weigh about seven tons. They depict the deposed leader as an early 20th century Muslim fighter in battles to topple the Ottoman Empire. The other heads will come down later this month.In Spain, funerals held for seven intelligence officers killed in Iraq over the weekend. Their civilian cars were ambushed south of Baghdad, and eight agents survived the attacks. Spain, as you know, has been a strong supporter of the war in Iraq and has about 1,300 troops in the country. Now to another major conflict in the Middle East and the controversy over the unofficial peace plan to end it. They call it the Geneva Accord. And although it is anything but binding, it is certainly provocative. Its architects, both leaders from both sides -- Palestinian and Israeli -- presented it yesterday formally in Geneva. From there they travel to Washington, D.C., where they hope to meet with Secretary of State Colin Powell this week. Israel today, the government warned Secretary Powell, that he'll be making a mistake if he agrees to do so. We're joined tonight by David Makovsky, senior fellow and director of the Project for Middle East Peace Process at the Washington Institute. It's always good to see you. 


DAVID MAKOVSKY, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: And you.


BROWN: Thank you.I want to get to the Powell question, but let's just talk about the accord more broadly. What does it mean, if anything? Because I think to some, certainly critics of it, it is essentially gambling with somebody else's money. I mean, it's easy to come up with a plan if it doesn't count. 


MAKOVSKY: Yes. I mean, there's somewhat of a parallel universe sense. You have an ex-Israeli official with an ex-Palestinian official signing a shadow peace agreement in Geneva. But the fact is some will view this as this an exercise of public diplomacy, a ray of light, demonstrating that Israelis and Palestinians can sit together and make an agreement. However, it's been meeting opposition from all quarters. On the Palestinian side, Yasser Arafat's Fattah Movement refused to endorse it. Arafat refused to let the negotiators go, changed his mind and in a crafted statement saying, well, it could open the door but he doesn't want to be bound by the terms outright. On the Israeli side, the opposition is also fierce. Sharon's aides called it an outright capitulation. Adel Baroch (ph) said it was delusional. Shimon Peres, Nobel Peace Prize laureate, said he wouldn't sign it. So it's definitely provocative, Aaron, but it could have one effect. It could prod the other part of the parallel universe on the ground to move forward on this road map, which has been stalled for several months. And I think that could be its immediate impact. But not in terms of resolving all these existential issues that it purported to sign yesterday. 


BROWN: There does seem to be a bit of a rustling on the ground, not a movement in any particular direction, but just a sort of rustling. 


MAKOVSKY: Yes, that's correct. And I think that's creating some sort of a tactical observance between the Abu Allah, the new Palestinian prime minister and Sharon, in the sense that the prime minister of Israel. Because the publics on both sides say where is the strategy, where is this going? And I think in the short term we may see a resurrection of what happened in the summer of a cease-fire that will be designed to stop the killing process and maybe create a peace process. Nothing as grandiose as what was signed in Geneva. But I think people realized over the summer, that no side, whether it was in Washington, Jerusalem, Ramallah, no one did their optimal efforts to see that the Abu Mazen government succeed. And that might have lead them to say, well, let's get this road map on the road and not make the mistakes of three months ago. 


BROWN: And just quickly on the Powell question, the implications of Secretary of State Colin Powell meeting or not meeting with the Geneva "negotiators," in quotes. 


MAKOVSKY: Yes. Well, I think Powell, and his aides at the State Department have made it publicly clear. They've used this as stirring a debate in both camps among Israelis and Palestinians. They're very careful not to endorse the terms of the agreement, which have proven so controversial on both sides. But there is a dissatisfaction with the lack of movement in general on the ground in the Middle East. And they're hoping again, that if it will have any impact, maybe it will get the road map on the road. Even if it doesn't, even if there's not a rightness to solve the grand conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. But given the bleakness and the violence there, even some momentum is better than continued killing. 


BROWN: I guess, finally, do you detect any willingness for the administration, particularly the president, to jump into this with both feet? Because while he --it seems to me that he got into it for a bit, when it sort of went south on him, he pulled back. 


MAKOVSKY: I think you're right. I think this president is not anxious to jump in it again. I think he'd be very happy to do what he did last week, quietly send White House envoys to Rome to meet with Sharon for five hours and have him get the road map started again. But not invest his own personal authority when, in his mind, this still remains a very big gamble. So it seems that, until there is some evidence that terrorism is under control and this road map is actually going somewhere, it seems to me this president is not going to invest himself personally at this time.BROWN: David, it's good to see you. Thank you very much.


MAKOVSKY: It's good to be with you, Aaron. BROWN: Thank you, sir.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight: not enough holiday cheer for one classic American toy store. Could this be the last Christmas for FAO Schwarz? And later: the new face of Mississippi State football and a new day in the Southeastern Conference -- the story of Sylvester Croom and more, as NEWSNIGHT continues on CNN.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 


BROWN: The poet William Blake once wrote, "The child's toys and the old man's reasons are the fruits of the two seasons." He wrote it long before a toy store named FAO Schwarz put both together under a single roof for all seasons, aisle after aisle of child's play, accompanied by that very adult sound of a cash register ringing. Or so it was until earlier this year, when the company that operates the toy stores all across the country filed for bankruptcy, filed the first time. And now it looks like a second bankruptcy filing is just around the corner, sure as Christmas. Here's NEWSNIGHT financial correspondent Allan Chernoff. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 


ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The biggest teddy bear in town may soon be gone. Just as parents are pursuing holiday presents, America's fanciest toy store chain is going belly up. 


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're sad. We come here every year. We take our picture out right by the bear for our Christmas card. We're sad. 


CHERNOFF: The parent company of FAO Schwarz plans to declare bankruptcy this week, its second descent into Chapter 11 this year. FAO Schwarz is for sale, as is the company's well-regarded "Right Start" catalog and Internet business. If buyers are not found in two weeks, the company is threatening to liquidate. That's already the fate for FAO's Zany Brainy division.


DAVID LEIBOWITZ, BURNHAM SECURITIES, INC..: As Tarzan said to Jane, it's a jungle out there. No question about it, that this is going to be the roughest toy retailing year in recent memory. 


CHERNOFF: In the movie "Big," Tom Hanks played the piano at FAO. It is a wonderland of toys, a place children love to visit. But many parents would rather wait in line at Wal-Mart or Target, where prices are a fraction of what FAO charges. The competition has even turned Toys "R" Us into a money-losing company. FAO Schwarz tried cutting expenses and begged its bankers for more credit, but they refused. So, as the 140-year-old toy store legend teeters on the verge of collapse, all sales for the next two weeks will be final. Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)


BROWN: A few other bits of business before we take a break, starting with the headquarters of the Enron company in Houston. The building went on the auction block today. The process could take a bit. And as for the trademark crooked E outside the front door, it's already gone. You remember? It was auctioned off earlier in the year.New car and truck sales shot up in November. Two reasons for that, say the experts, year-end sales incentives and an economy that is moving forward. The Pentagon made it official today, delaying a deal to acquire 100 aerial tankers from the Boeing Company. This was an enormous deal for Boeing, $20 billion. This comes a day after Boeing's chairman and CEO, Phil Condit, stepped down. It also comes after weeks of controversy over the shape of the deal and the cost and ethical questions at Boeing as well. Markets were down today, not by much, the selling described as mild. This is what market watchers call profit-taking. After the last few weeks, there have been some profits there to take. Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: a new day for a place where football is king, as the first black head football coach takes over at Mississippi State. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT. 


(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 


BROWN: Well, we will admit that, until yesterday, we had never heard of Sylvester Croom. Tonight, we not only know who he is. We know a fair amount about how he came to be. When he was a kid in the South, the busses, the restaurants, the state universities were segregated. He was one of the first black football players to break that barrier. He did it at Alabama. A thousand barriers have fallen since, but, until today, the big and important Southeastern football conference had never had a head black football coach. Mississippi State University changed that today, and so did Mr. Croom. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 


BROWN (voice-over): It was history, as he walked into a packed room to a round of applause. He gave a giant hug to his mother, knowing that he was suddenly one of the most visible African Americans in the deep South. 


SYLVESTER CROOM, MISSISSIPPI STATE FOOTBALL COACH: I knew there would be some cameras here, but I didn't realize it was going to be like this. 


(LAUGHTER) 


BROWN: Sylvester Croom's hiring as the first black coach in the football-crazed Southeastern Conference was important, important because Mississippi is not, say those who know her, still altogether trapped in a stereotype. 


MFANYA TRYMAN, MISSISSIPPI STATE UNIVERSITY: There's been two African-Americans on the state Supreme Court. The mayor of the largest city in Jackson, of course, is African-American. So I think it's very important. And I think it continues a trend. I don't think -- in one sense, it's not a first. It's a first for Mississippi State, but it's not a first for the state. BROWN: As a teenager, Croom was one of the first black athletes recruited to play football at the University of Alabama. That was 1973. And back then, as he reminded us earlier today, the climate in the South was entirely different. 


CROOM: For me to be standing here, if we were to go back when I first went to the university, of course, this would not have been possible at that time, when I first went to college at Alabama. The fact that Wilbur Jackson was the first African-American player there had the same significance pretty much as this. 


BROWN (on camera): Do you have any concerns that the state will be more impatient with you than it would be to a white football coach? 


CROOM: Well, I think the administration here, our supporters here, I think they all understand where we are and where we have to get to. Of course, ultimately, any football coach, you've got to win games. But we're in the process of trying to build a solid foundation. And I feel very comfortable and assured that the Mississippi State family is -- we're going to all get together and take this thing one day at a time and try to build something on a solid foundation that we can be proud of for years to come. 


BROWN (voice-over): He has his work cut out for him. Croom, who had a secure job as the running backs coach for the Green Bay Packers, replaces a college football legend. His predecessor is Jackie Sherrill, who retired last month after the school's worst season since 1988. The Mississippi State Bulldogs won only two games this year, have won only eight games in three seasons. Still, this day was not about the future. It was about the present. 


TRYMAN: I think it's an excellent day. This is a historical day for Mississippi State University, for the state of Mississippi. It's still a historical first. You can't overlook that. But, yes, I think it's been a great day. 


BROWN (on camera): And just finally, that worst of all reporter's questions, how do you feel today? 


CROOM: Well, right now, I'm somewhat overwhelmed because of the -- it's the first time I've ever seen this many media people in one setting since -- really, since I went to the Super Bowl when I was in San Diego. That was amazing. But to be directly involved with them myself, yes, it's somewhat overwhelming. But I know that this, too, will pass. 


(END VIDEOTAPE) 


BROWN: Times change. Some other stories making news today from around the country.John Muhammad's son takes the stand today in the sniper trial of Lee Malvo. Lindbergh Williams testified that his father was a manipulator who, in so many words, brainwashed him as a child into thinking his mother abused him. The defense maintains that Mr. Muhammad did a similar job on young Mr. Malvo. Early testimony doesn't seem to bode well for Bill Janklow, the congressman from South Dakota. A prosecution witness at his manslaughter trial today said the congressman failed to even slow down before running a stop sign and hitting and killing a motorcyclist. Congressman Janklow faces 10 years in prison and expulsion from the House if convicted. And the court-appointed guardian for Terri Schiavo says he can see no likelihood that she will ever recover from brain injuries. In his report to Florida Governor Jeb Bush, Dr. Jay Wolfson says all evidence supports the notion that Ms. Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state. But given the contentious nature of the case, Dr. Wolfson also recommended that more testing be done. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: preserving painful memories, a look at how the debris from the 9/11 attacks is being saved for future generations to see. This is NEWSNIGHT. 


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


BROWN: An exhibit that opened shortly -- a short time ago at the New York Historical Society speaks to the power of objects, some quite ordinary, to convey the scope of loss. On display are objects recovered from the Fresh Kills Landfill, where nearly two million tons of wreckage from the World Trade Center were painstakingly sorted. What is on display is a fraction of what was found, a quest that began October 4 of 2001, when museum curators and historians gathered in New York. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 


MARK SCHAMING, DIRECTOR OF EXHIBITIONS, NEW YORK STATE MUSEUM: I think, with the World Trade Center, we had one shot and a very narrow window of time to collect the stories and the objects. The big question was, what is going to be saved? What are they finding?BROWN (voice-over): Two years later, there are storage rooms filled with objects, most of them retrieved from the nearly two million tons of debris taken from ground zero to Fresh Kills Landfill. 


SCHAMING: We expected to see at Fresh Gill desks and chairs and recognize -- fields of recognizable things. And we were just shocked that we didn't. It was just 175 acres of unidentifiable gray debris. 


BROWN: Out of the debris came the stories, stories of the devastation. 


SCHAMING: This is a seat belt, probably from one of the planes. We took everything off the site that they found that they identified as a plane part. BROWN: There are stories of heroism. 


SARAH HENRY, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, MUSEUM OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK: This came to us also from the fire department. And it's an air pack that the firefighters used. And this is what we saw as all those firefighters went into the buildings. It really speaks to the story of the attempt at the rescue effort and the bravery of the people who went in. 


BROWN: Stories of lives lost represented in the most ordinary of objects. 


HENRY: We'll never know what the real story is of the person who lost this. But it's that finding the human connection within the vastness of the disaster and also the individual within something that's such a -- not an individual event. 


BROWN: Stories of the hope that people clung to. 


HENRY: One of the most important things that we collected as a single object was the wall of prayer which stood outside of Bellevue Hospital. It's almost hard to remember how plastered the city was with those missing-persons posters. They were on every bus shelter and every mailbox and on every wall. And here is, in a way, a time capsule. 


BROWN: And a very public mourning. 


HENRY: All of these things that people poured from their hearts and put out in the public, in the public eye, as this collective expression of mourning. And that's what it really was. It was the whole city's emotional response that needed to be shared. 


BROWN: It is said to be the most documented event in all of human history. But, for future generations, it may be these remnants that tell the story best. 


HENRY: What they do is, they bring home the actual physical reality of the event, because other representations, film and video included, are representations. But the real object testifies to the fact that this isn't just a story and it wasn't just a movie. It really happened. 


(END VIDEOTAPE) 


BROWN: Morning papers after the break.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 


(ROOSTER CROWING) 


BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. I don't know why I did it that way. We begin tonight with a new paper for us, but hardly a new paper, "The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review." Probably, at one time, there was a "Pittsburgh Tribune" and a "Pittsburgh Review," but now they're one. "GOP Gives Ground on Income Tax," a slight increase, modest increase in the income tax perhaps headed for the residents of Pennsylvania. "Bush Tough on Iraq and Mum on Steel." The president was doing a fund-raiser in Pittsburgh yesterday. He does lot of fund-raisers, doesn't he? Anyway, we welcome them and we appreciate there sending it along. And as long as we're in the state of Pennsylvania, "The Philadelphia Inquirer." A third have not filed for the 9/11 Fund. This is an incredibly perplexing and troubling story, that people who are entitled to compensation from 9/11 for a variety of reasons do not file. And time is running out, less than three weeks for them. "The Miami Herald" tonight, a couple of stories I liked. 


(BELL RINGING) 


BROWN: What is that dinging sound? What is that about, David? "Conflict Freed in Slaying Caught in Sting." Timothy Brown, whose fight for freedom ended in the conviction of the 1990 cop- killing being overturned, is back behind bars for dealing drugs. The guy was in prison for 12 years, out for seven months, busted in a sting. Anyway, come on, people. Be smarter than that. OK?"Guantanamo Case Delayed by Possible Data Leak." This is the case of James Yousef Yee, who at one point was charged -- or suspected of spying and treason. And now it comes down to mostly a charge of adultery, which is a bad thing, but it's not treason, right?"The Detroit News," down at the bottom, if you will. "Northwest Fliers Sit Pretty in $30,000 Seats." OK, this is one of those seats you will never fly in, and neither will I. But they've got fancy new seats. And why is that on the front page of "The Detroit News," you ask? Because Northwest Airlines has a big hub at that fancy airport now in Detroit. So that was worth a front-page story to them. How we doing on time? 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1:07. BROWN: 1:07.This story appears in a couple of places, actually, in slightly different forms. "The Dallas Morning News." "Putting the Oval in Office. NASCAR Dads Represent a Shift in Voter Demographic Groups." It was NASCAR day at the White House today, I guess. And it used to be soccer moms. This year, it's NASCAR dads. And they tend to be -- vote Republican, or so the thinking goes. "The Washington Times." "Polygamists..."


(BELL RINGING) 


BROWN: Thank you -- "Use Ruling on Sodomy. Santorum Prediction Coming True." This is the case of a convicted polygamist in Utah -- where else -- who says the recent Supreme Court decision in Texas allowing sodomy should allow him to have as many wives as he wants. OK, "The Chicago Sun-Times." Didn't get to one I wanted to get to. We'll bring it back tomorrow. It's a weekly. I can do that. "Chicago Schoolkids Twice as Likely to be Obese." OK, I don't know why that is. Could be the pizza, but I'm not sure. The weather tomorrow in Chicago, "placid." But my thinking, it's cold. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to move that on you -- 36 degrees. Anyway, that's "The Chicago Sun-Times."That's morning papers. We'll update our top story in just a moment.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 


BROWN: A quick recap of our top story tonight. Authorities in Columbus, Ohio, now say they are confident that a dozen shootings, all but one at cars, along a stretch of the interstate are connected. Ballistic evidence positively links four of them, including one in which a 62-year-old woman died. They are not identifying the type of gun used, nor will they say if they are close to catching the shooter.Tomorrow night on this program: Boone, Iowa, a small town making big sacrifices in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hundreds of residents are off to war in a town of just a few thousand. That's tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next. And good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT. 


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Monday, December 1, 2003

Police Brutality or Self-Defense?; Civilians Suffer in Coalition Firefight; Captain Could be Dismissed for Sticking up for His Troops

Police Brutality or Self-Defense?; Civilians Suffer in Coalition Firefight; Captain Could be Dismissed for Sticking up for His Troops
Aired December 1, 2003 - 22:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone. The proof is in pictures, goes the old saying. We wonder. Two people, both honorable, could look at the same pictures out of Cincinnati tonight and see something entirely different. To one it will be a simple case of police brutality, fueled no doubt by race. To the other, it will be a simple and clear case of self-defense. A deranged man, a big man, who would not submit to virtual pleading by police. The same pictures viewed differently in a city that knows racial tension and distrust of police more than most. It is our lead tonight and where we begin the whip. CNN's Brian Cabell is in Cincinnati. Brian, a headline from you, please. 


BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Cincinnati has a history of racial strife, and those concerns are being raised again. An African-American male died after fighting with police. Some are saying it was excessive force -- Aaron. BROWN: Brian, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight. Next, to Iraq and the firefight and the ambush and the questions raised. CNN's Nic Robertson has the watch. Nic, a headline from you tonight. 


NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the biggest battle since major conflict ended in May. According to troops here, it surprised them in its complexity, size and scale. The townspeople of Samarra, where it took place, on the other hand, are very angry -- Aaron. 


BROWN: Nic, thank you.To Rochester, New York, next and the reservist who won praise for taking care of his troops in Afghanistan only to be facing problems back at home. CNN's Deborah Feyerick has been working on that. Deb, the headline. 


DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a number of Army reserves are being asked to sign waivers getting them back into combat early. But when a captain stood up for them, he was accused of insubordination.


BROWN: Deb, thank you.And finally, the Israeli-Palestinian question and the doubts of some important Israelis about their government's policy. CNN's Sheila MacVicar has been working on that. So Sheila, a headline.


SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, all of that as a new peace plan is signed in Geneva. Right wing rabbis have condemned those involved as traitors. And we'll ask the question whether or not this might push Prime Minister Sharon to make some new moves. 


BROWN: Sheila, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.Also coming up tonight, we talk with Cincinnati's mayor, Charlie Luken, and a talk with John Burns, who has been doing some splendid reporting from Iraq for "The New York Times." Also, what Magic Johnson did in this country, soccer stars are doing in Africa. It's World Aids Day, and we'll look at the fight against AIDS tonight.Then, tanned and rested and happy he's not a turkey, the rooster crows again. Morning papers to start the week off right, or to end the program at least. All of that to come in the hour ahead.We begin in Cincinnati, where the basic facts are clear, even if their meaning is not. man is dead. He died after an attempt by police to arrest and subdue him. He is dead after he resisted that arrest and after being hit many times with police batons. Those facts are not dispute. What they mean in a city of serious and long-standing racial tension is quite another matter. Here's CNN's Brian Cabell. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)


CABELL (voice-over): It started with a complaint from a restaurant employee. A very large man was acting strange outside. Two police officers responded and immediately encountered 5'9", 350-pound Nathaniel Jones. A camera mounted on the police car recorded some of the confrontation. It was rolling as a fight ensued: Jones against two much smaller cops, armed with nightsticks and a chemical spray. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking into consideration everything that we see on this tape here, it appears to be consistent with our training. These officers responded very well to an assault of person, a very large person, who clearly attacks them very violently. 


CABELL: Eventually, backup for the officers arrive, and Jones was subdued. But police noticed he needed medical help. He was rushed to the hospital but died shortly afterwards. Now questions are being raised. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not trying to say that this gentleman was innocent. I don't know what the circumstances were. But I have seen the film. And the kind of beating that I observed would raise questions in anyone's mind. 


CABELL: The coroner, who hasn't yet determined Jones' cause of death, does report he had cardiac problems and at least traces of PCP and cocaine in his system. Racial violence exploded in Cincinnati two years ago after a 19- year-old African-American man was shot to death by police. Many blacks say that's been a pattern here. Black men harassed, sometimes killed by police using undue force. In fact, after disturbances, the city paid out $4.5 million in settlements to blacks for excessive police force. In the last couple of years, with a federal judge overseeing reconciliation between the police and the black community, racial tensions had eased, at least until Sunday morning. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)


CABELL: A couple of points here. Some are saying that police should have used a stun gun. Apparently, there was not one available to these two particular police. Also, some are saying that a psychological specialist should have been used in this particular case. Again, that person was not available. And finally, Aaron, I talked to an activist minister just about an hour ago. He was critical of what he said was unnecessary force, but his words, frankly, were not all that inflammatory. He was upset, but as I say, his words and those of others, apparently, have not been inflammatory so far -- Aaron. 


BROWN: Thank you, Brian, very much. Brian Cabell is in Cincinnati tonight.Charlie Luken was the mayor of Cincinnati when the rioting broke out two and a half years ago. He's the mayor still. In our experience, few people have done as much thinking about race and policing in the country than he has. And we talked with him earlier today. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 


BROWN: Well, sir, like much of the country, I guess by now, you have seen the tape. Perhaps you've seen more of it than many. What's your take on what happened the other night? 


CHARLIE LUKEN, CINCINNATI MAYOR: Well, my take, Aaron, is that a police officer was assaulted violently by a 400-pound man, and they responded as they are trained to do. It is never pretty to watch. But if you look at the tape carefully, you will see the police officers avoid carefully hitting this individual in the head. The autopsy reports are coming out that show this gentleman had two different kinds of drugs in his system, which creates aggressive and violent behavior. And finally, the police officers are only responding to an attack that, under certain circumstances, could be lethal. And so I think people have seen the beating part, but they haven't seen it when the 400-pound man just waylays a police officer, who is pleading with him to back up. BROWN: Does that exist on tape? 


LUKEN: The beginning of the tape clearly shows this officer is saying, "Please, back up, back up, back up." And then all of a sudden he is hit violently by this gentleman, and he's knocked to the ground. And his partner responds and they get him upright. And they are very specific about what they want him to do, which is put the hands behind his back. He gets up. He flails away. At one point, he grabs the officer's baton. So I think that people have got to watch this tape very carefully, compare it to how police officers are trained. And I will -- I think it will clearly show that the officers did what they were trained to do. 


BROWN: There are certain historical issues that make this somewhat complicated when you're dealing with Cincinnati. Tell me how the city -- I guess both -- all aspects of the city -- black, white and otherwise -- are dealing with it today. 


LUKEN: I think calmly so far. I mean, we have gotten a tremendous amount of national media attention because, as you say, it is Cincinnati. But I would point out that since people visit -- like yourself visited us almost three years ago, we have voluntarily agreed to come under Justice Department supervision. We are under a collaborative that is supervised with the court, with citizens in the city. We have moved forward with community-oriented policing all over this town. There is a much healthier relationship between police and citizens. And hopefully that will play out today as people at least take the time to reflect on the total picture here. BROWN: Perhaps the harshest words I've heard -- I certainly, haven't heard them all. But the harshest words came from the head of the police union, who was not happy with the way the officers involved were treated. Do you have any concern about how they were treated by their superiors? 


LUKEN: Any time -- one thing I've learned about this, Aaron, is any time something like this happens, you have to analyze all aspects of it and learn from the way it was handled. I talked to the head of Fraternal Order of Police after he made those comments and I said to him two things. Look, we will look at how these officers were treated to make sure they were treated respectfully. But secondly, his implication at one point that there might be a police slowdown in response to this is something that this community just will not tolerate. BROWN: And do you consider that a real possibility? 


LUKEN: No. But I would be misleading you if I didn't acknowledge that after our situation, the riots of three years ago, there was clearly -- the police did -- they were not proactive in their efforts. And we saw the number of arrests go dramatically down in Cincinnati. 


BROWN: It's always good to talk to you, and it always seems that we end up talking in moments like this. We appreciate your time, Mayor. Good luck. 


LUKEN: Aaron, thank you. It's always good to talk to you.


BROWN: Thank you, sir.


(END VIDEOTAPE)


BROWN: Cincinnati's mayor, Charlie Luken, earlier today. Now on to Iraq and a bloody end to an especially deadly month there, the deadliest since last spring when the president declared major combat over. Since then, there have been many hundreds of attacks on American soldiers, several hundred deaths, but there has never been an attack like the one this weekend. Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Nic Robertson. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where at 716mm AK round went through the door. 


ROBERTSON (voice-over): Shot up, banged up, Humvees hint at the ferocity of the battle. Soldiers provide testimony. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There I am in the middle of a huge firefight with bullets and mortars and RPGs falling all around me. 


ROBERTSON: Commanders, the details. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can have multiple attacks both at the banks, because that was a given location that they knew we'd go to, and the routes that we most likely would use going in and out. 


ROBERTSON: Repairs now underway from what coalition officials describe as the largest engagement since the end of major combat.(on camera) Forty-six Iraqis killed, 18 wounded and 11 taken prisoner, according to officers here. Intelligence officials say among those may have been members of Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen. They also acknowledge that in the ferocity of such a firefight there may have been civilian casualties. (voice-over) In Samarra, Tariq Azzah (ph) angrily points to his shot-up living room. "Look at what the U.S. troops have done," he says. Asked about the gun clip on his floor, he shows it's empty. "No one was firing from here," he insists, his friend adding, "The resistance had been told to stand down." But in apparent contradiction, another man in the crowded room adds, "My invalid brother was killed in the crossfire." From the hospital where the wounded are still being treated, anger seems strongest, particularly from the mother of this man. "They burned his car and hit him," she says. "Where is the freedom Bush promised?" Those in this ward claiming they were leaving work when they were shot. This Iraqi police major has been examining the list of wounded and dead. Fifty injured. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of all the injured brought to the hospital, we haven't seen any in black uniforms belonging to the Saddam Fedayeen. 


ROBERTSON: He also contradicts the coalition again, saying only eight people died, among them an elderly Iranian man. Away from our camera and crowds, an Iraqi told us what he described as resistance fighters had been preparing for an attack. One man being taken away for treatment showing he had some fight left in him. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)ROBERTSON: And at this base just outside of Samarra, some of those prisoners are being held. And according to intelligence officers, they are learning details about the cell structure of the Iraqi insurgents from inside the town of Samarra -- Aaron. 


BROWN: What do we make of the discrepancy between what the Army says is the casualty toll and what people there are saying the casualty toll was? 


ROBERTSON: Well, the Army are very clear on this casualty toll. They haven't wavered on it. They make this toll by assessing from each soldier involved in the firefight exactly whom he saw, whom he targeted, whom he shot that he thought that he killed. That's where their figures come from. The police in the town of Samarra are at odds to reconcile that figure. Neither the police nor the coalition troops here can actually point to where the bodies of the 46 people are. The only dead people we were shown by Iraqi police were two elderly people in the city morgue. Apart from that, the morgue was completely empty. There appeared to be no -- there were no mass funerals going on in Samarra when we were there. So it's very, very difficult to reconcile those figures at all.But it does happen that when troops provide an account of the people that they believed who have been killed, that that number can become revised down when better statistics, better information is available. And certainly the coalition is continuing to investigate exactly what happened, they tell us -- Aaron. BROWN: Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson tonight. John Burns joins us here, home from Iraq, where he was based for so long before, before, during and after the war. Mr. Burns' work appears in the pages of "The New York Times." We're glad to have him here and safe. Nice to see you. What do you make of what happened over the weekend? Is it a new strategy, a new tactic? Or was it a moment of opportunity for the insurgents? 


JOHN BURNS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": You know, the American generals have been saying now for some time that they're up against an extremely adaptive, very smart enemy. It's appeared to us, up until quite recently, that they're one step ahead of the U.S. forces. I'm not sure how long that will continue to be the case.The U.S. forces have also proved themselves to be pretty adaptive, especially in the period of the last two or three weeks, when they've gone on the offensive, as they haven't been since April. But incidents of this kind are very confusing in a situation which is, even to those of us who have been on the ground in Iraq, very confusing. 


BROWN: How should viewers -- Americans see the reaction of Iraqis in this incident and in others, in some cases where they seem to be celebrating the deaths of Americans, that sort of thing? 


BURNS: That's a very hard thing to read. Of course, Americans are very familiar with the Sunni Triangle and the responses on the whole in the Sunni Triangle are different than they are elsewhere. Sunnis are a minority in Iraq. But my reading in the Sunni Triangle is that it's far too simple to simply conclude that there are millions of Sunnis who are with Saddam Hussein. There's increasing doubt in Iraq that the United States will stay the course, no matter what the president says, no matter what the generals say. There's a sense that the United States may find the price too high. Saddam has not been captured. Iraqis who suffered for 30 years of terror from Saddam Hussein will tell you how concerned they are that he might come back, however illusory that might seem to us. So there's...


BROWN: Are they talking literally about him or them, the Ba'athists? 


BURNS: Them, but there's a particular trauma about him personally. And as long as that's the case, some of these reactions will be cultured by that. That's to say, people will become keen to show a hostility for the United States troops. For instance, like this, that may not necessarily be authentic. This is not to say that there isn't a genuine dislike and even hatred of United States forces. But in the villages and towns and cities that I went into in the Sunni Triangle recently, if you hang around long enough to talk to people and you get behind the kind of ritualized pro-Saddam shouts, you find a much more moderated view, which tends to boil down to this. They suffered, too, from Saddam Hussein. They do not, in the main, want him back. The overwhelming majority don't want him back. They are not comfortable with the foreign occupation. They would like American troops to leave, but only after a stable situation has been created or, as a man in a village just south of Fallujah told me last week, he said, after they found a strong man to head the government. There's not much talk about democracy. 


BROWN: Yes. Just in a minute or so, do they -- is it your sense that they're sort of covering their bets? If -- they'll dance on the graves of Americans if that seems like a safe -- the safe thing to do? Is that what they're doing? Essentially covering their bets just in case? 


BURNS: You know, I'm not a psychologist. 


BROWN: OK. 


BURNS: Like most reporters, I talk to gatherings of people here and there, and we try and project from this to the much larger. But one thing is unarguable. And that is that there was a 30- year trauma...


BROWN: Yes.


BURNS: ... that people in Iraq, up until April of this year, were terrified of saying or doing anything at all to imply criticism of Saddam. That relented quickly after April the 9th. In my view, it's coming back again. So how authentic the cheering and the stamping and the hatred for American troops is very difficult to tell. But I think that nothing in Iraq is quite what it seems at first sight. 


BROWN: How long are you home for? 


BURNS: I'm going back to Baghdad this weekend. 


BROWN: Nice to see you. John Burns, "New York Times," reporting and writing have been terrific, as we said before. It's nice to see you. 


BURNS: It's a pleasure.


BROWN: Be well. Still to come on the program tonight, questioning another tour of duty gets one Army reservist the boot. We'll explain why. And on worlds AIDS Day, we'll show you what a group of soccer stars is doing to battle the disease. That and more. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


BROWN: Tonight the U.S. military's 401st Civil Affairs Battalion in Rochester, New York, is preparing for deployment to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and from there overseas. Captain Steven McCalpin (ph) was supposed to be with them, leading some of them. And from all reports he's a good leader. Instead, he'll stay behind to face charges of insubordination, charges that could end his long military career. Federal law says U.S. troops are entitled to a 12-month break between tours of duty. It's been just 11 months since the captain's battalion returned from Afghanistan. And therein lies the problem. Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)


FEYERICK (voice-over): Army Reserve Captain Steven McCalpin (ph) was ready to serve again in Afghanistan. Had been recommended for two Bronze Stars for helping rebuild the country. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Captain McCalpin (ph), New York thanks you for your service to our country. 


FEYERICK: Even being honored by New York's governor. Now the Army Reserve is kicking him out. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Captain McCalpin (ph), you are hereby notified that you have been removed from the battle roster of the 401st Civil Affair Battalion, due to a loss of confidence in your leadership. 


FEYERICK: The Army is charging McCalpin (ph) with insubordination, but McCalpin (ph) says he was just sticking up for his soldiers. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're asking these soldiers to go above and beyond, when legally they're entitled to some rights of a stabilization period following a deployment. 


FEYERICK: Army policy gives reservists 12 months home before being redeployed, and they can't be involuntarily mobilized before that time is up, though the Army can change the policy. McCalpin's (ph) Special Operations soldiers were asked to sign a waiver returning them to combat early. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can see why we had to sign the waiver.


FEYERICK: Under pressure, Christopher Dridgle (ph) says he signed the waiver, then tore it up. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to go, I don't see any reason why I should have to go. I've been there once already within the past year. 


FEYERICK: Dridgle (ph) says a lot of soldiers were confused the Army asked rather than told them to go back. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, there is a lot of pressure to sign a waiver to redeploy when it's less than a year between tours. You know, we don't know how much pressure was placed on the troops. Sometimes they don't know what they're signing. 


FEYERICK: Captain McCalpin was downgraded to an inactive unit. He packed up his things at the base Monday, is 25-year Army Reserve career now in limbo. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)


FEYERICK: An Army Reserve spokesman didn't want to talk about the insubordination charges or any of the details of McCalpin's (ph) case. The spokesman called it an administrative action, adding, "The Army is focused on fighting a war" -- Aaron. 


BROWN: What is it he did that was insubordinate? 


FEYERICK: There was a teleconference call where some of the commanding officers were able to speak amongst themselves about this waiver and the fact that some of the soldiers were being asked to sign it, returning them to combat much earlier than they would have to go. And a couple of statements were made to him, according to what he says, that he was bordering on insubordination. A couple days later he was slapped with insubordination.


BROWN: OK. Deb, thank you very much. Deborah Feyerick. Tonight, a few more items from around the country, starting in Sacramento, California, where legislators today repealed the law that allows illegal aliens in California to obtain a driver's license. It's a major victory for the new governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, who made the repeal of that law one of his campaign promises. 


Police in Grand Forks, North Dakota, have made an arrest in connection with the disappearance of Dru Sjodin. The man in custody is Alfonso Rodriguez. He's being held in jail in Crookston, Minnesota, on kidnapping charges. Dru Sjodin, you may recall, vanished two Saturdays ago while talking with her boyfriend on a cell phone. 


Another twist in the Michael Jackson case. Wireless microphones discovered in several locations outside the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department offices, places people might go for a cigarette break, for example. They disappeared shortly after they were spotted on the day Jackson arrived at the department. A spokesman calls it an attempt to spy on investigators or perhaps get a really good scoop, as you might imagine. 


And Roy Horn could be home by the end of the year. He remains in serious but stable condition at UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles, where he's recovering from the injuries he suffered in a tiger mauling in Las Vegas, back in October. 


Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, tonight, dissent in Israel as Prime Minister Sharon hears criticism from some surprising quarters. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


BROWN: No shortage of strangeness lately in the Middle East. Syria's leader is calling for normal relations between his country and the state of Israel. "Define normal," a reporter asked him. "Why, just like the relationship between Syria and the United States," he replied. Palestinian radicals, in the meantime, are accusing some of their leaders of collaborating with the enemy. The collaborators in question took part in unofficial negotiations for a hypothetical peace agreement signed today by surrogate leaders at a simulated ceremony.With all that as a backdrop, some of Israel's real tough guys, security experts both in and out of the government, have started saying that the tough guy tactics of the Sharon government may no longer be working.Here's CNN's Sheila MacVicar.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)


SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Suddenly, from all sides, from right and left, there is a chorus of voices, a chorus that grew even louder when the Israeli prime minister began talking about what he called unilateral concessions. 


ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): I spoke in the past about the need for painful concessions. It is clear that, in the future, we will not be in all the places we are now. 


MACVICAR: Ariel Sharon has not spelled out his plans, but look at who his unprecedented critics are. In September, from the pride of the Israeli Defense Forces, the Air Force, 27 pilots signed a letter saying they would no longer fly missions which could harm Palestinian civilians. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The air force is a big part of our life, almost family. But I feel I have no other choice. 


MACVICAR: In October, the current chief of staff of Israeli Defense Forces told journalists the Army opposes Israel's security fence and that the government's hard-line policy towards Palestinian civilians had been counterproductive and intensified hatred. Next, four heads of Israel's security service came out of the shadows and warned, the country is headed for catastrophe. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our impression is that there is no -- any political movement. And we think that that's critically important for the future of Israel, for the future of the Israeli society, for the Israeli economy. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation, the way we see it, is very dangerous, meaning that the start of wall lead us into a place that we don't want to be. 


MACVICAR: And then there are the alternate peace plans. Ayalon is the author of one. Another, the Geneva Accord, underwritten by the Swiss government, calls for Israeli withdrawal, partition of Jerusalem and for the Palestinians to give up the right of return. A copy was delivered to every household in Israel. And a recent poll shows 53 percent of Israelis say they support it. The prime minister has had to repeat over and over again that he, too, has a plan and that he, too, believes peace is possible. And then there are Sharon's friends. 


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Israel should free settlement construction, dismantle unauthorized outposts, end the daily humiliation of the Palestinian people, and not prejudice final negotiations with the placement of walls and fences. 


MACVICAR: From within his own increasingly fractious party, divided by even the suggestion that Israel might dismantle outposts and settlements. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under the present situation, any ideas thrown in the air by someone as senior as the prime minister of the state of Israel are very dangerous to us, both internally and internationally. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Almost throughout his prime ministership, he enjoyed approval ratings between 50 percent and 60 percent. And now they're below 40 percent and they're dipping even further. MACVICAR: Israeli public opinion is notoriously fickle. But what is clear is that he is losing support from the left and from the right, too, who hear the word concessions and think capitulation. 


(END VIDEOTAPE) 


MACVICAR: Aaron, there is a sense that something will happen. The big question, of course, is what. And the big question is, what exactly is Prime Minister Sharon's game? Is he going to play a waiting game, with the expectation that the Palestinians will once again descend into a spiral of violence? Or has he finally come to the point where he will have to make some very hard choices and persuade some -- make some very tough, very persuasive arguments to bring his party and bring the Israeli right along with him? -- Aaron. BROWN: When he's talked about settlements that he -- that he might close down, is he talking about major settlements or these outposts where just perhaps a few dozen people live, as opposed to hundreds or thousands of people in some of the large settlements? 


MACVICAR: This is like a fan dance, if you will. There is a lot less there than meets the eye. What we are talking about are what are called illegal outposts, literally hilltops where there may be one or two or three trailers, temporary housing. We saw a great battle that was a real show early in the summer, when they tried to dismantle one of these. Peace Now, the group that monitors, says that there are literally dozens of them. Israel is now talking with the U.S. about perhaps taking down 10. And, in the meantime, the deputy defense minister says that they are going to legalize even more. We are not talking about big settlements, where people are settled and there are bus routes and schools. We are talking about literally isolated outposts on hills, nothing that has a substantial population base -- Aaron. 


BROWN: Sheila, thank you -- Sheila MacVicar tonight. 


A new one for us now, the "MONEYLINE Roundup," starting with a very tough call for President Bush, both here and aboard, keep a tariff on imported steel or roll it back. It is political poison in Michigan, where the president came calling the . Tariffs keep steel prices high, which hurt the car industry or anyone that uses steel. It's part of the reason the country has lost manufacturing jobs. 


In Pittsburgh, where Mr. Bush goes tomorrow, it's the other way around, lots of steel made. So electoral politics comes into play. In any case, the European Union has set mid-month, December 15, for dropping the tariffs before retaliating with tariffs of its own on American products. 


Boeing's chairman and chief executive officer, Phil Condit, has resigned with a gentle push. This comes a weekend after his CFO and another executive stepped down in the scandal over tanker sales to the Air Force. The Pentagon reportedly now put the deal on hold. 


A second top Disney executive stepped down today. Stanley Gold followed Roy Disney out the door. Mr. Disney stepped down yesterday as vice chairman, criticizing the board, the company, and especially CEO Michael Eisner as he went. Both Mr. Disney and Mr. Gold once played key roles in saving the company back in the '80s, in part, by hiring Michael Eisner. Disney's stock rose. Shares of Boeing fell today. But major markets took off, largely, they say, over positive numbers on manufacturing, retail sales and jobless claims. More signs the economy is improving. S


till to come tonight on NEWSNIGHT: rights vs. security. Just what makes a detainee and what rights do they have? We'll talk with one of the architects of the Patriot Act about some concerns he has after a break.Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT. 


(COMMERCIAL BREAK) 


BROWN: For more than two years now, we've talked about the new normal, the normal we find ourselves in after the attack on the country on 9/11. It's created some unprecedented situations, not the least of which are the cases of two American citizens being held for more than a year now without access to lawyers, without charges being filed, without the right to go before a judge or anyone else. Since the beginning, the civil libertarians have complained. Recently, concerns have been heard in what you might consider surprising quarters. Viet Dinh was one of the principal architects of the Patriot Act. And in recent speeches and recent interviews, he has raised questions about the handling of the cases of the two Americans. Mr. Dinh joins us tonight from Washington. It's good to see you, sir. Let's talk specifically about where your concerns lie and where they don't. It's not about the Patriot Act. It's not about the Guantanamo Bay. It's really about these two Americans, isn't it? 


VIET DINH, GEORGETOWN LAW SCHOOL: That's exactly right. I think it's unquestioned that the president has the authority to detain battlefield combatants in order to incapacitate them and obtain intelligence information from them. I think, in this war against terror, the president's authority also extends to nontraditional battlefields and nontraditional combatants, like the terrorist, alleged terrorist, Jose Padilla. I think he has ample authority to do that.And he is owed great deference on how he handles these cases, including the conditions under which he holds them, including the manner in which, when, whether and what kind of process he gives them. But I think the initial government position, especially in the Padilla case, where he is held without access to counsel and without any promise of any legal process was very troublesome. Now, I must note that the administration, in recent weeks -- actually, just about a weeks ago -- has moved significantly in the case, whereby it has represented to the court that it will allow access to counsel to Jose Padilla in the very near future. I think that fundamentally changes the case, makes it much more sustainable. And there is some room for it to move to what I would call legal safe harbor by providing some sort of process, executive or military. It need not be judicial. It need not be immediate. But that would make the case, I think, bulletproof. 


BROWN: Well, let me ask a couple questions about that. Why should there not be, as there is in a normal criminal case, a set length of time; you have 48 hours or 48 days, or whatever it is, to bring charges? In the meantime, the guy has right to counsel. He's an American citizen. 


DINH: Right. The normal criminal process not only has the right to a speedy trial, but also the whole panoply of rights, including Fourth Amendment rights to unreasonable search and seizure, Fifth Amendment right to due process, Sixth Amendment right to due counsel and the like. These are not the normal criminal processes, because these are unlawful enemy combatants that the president, as a commander in chief, has authority to detain in order to incapacitate them and also obtain intelligence from them. I think he is given great latitude in the history of the Supreme Court in order to make those determinations, because he is the person charged with protecting the national security of the United States and gathering the intelligence necessary. I think he's owed great latitude and great deference. That deference, however, is not absolute. And I think, on this score, the president and the administration deserve some credit for keeping its ears to the ground and making its decision based on changed circumstances. Now they have determined -- or they say they will soon determine that the intelligence needs are not so great that they cannot allow access to counsel. 


BROWN: And, sir, on that -- in that area, do you think, where either Mr. Padilla or the Patriot Act or Guantanamo is concerned, in this whole area, that it's time perhaps to step back and look at the rules and perhaps rewrite the rules, now that we have two years' experience with them? 


DINH: There's no question that we are in a transition phase from the sprint stage of race towards safety into more of a marathon phase. And I think it behooves us to engage in a national conversation about the rules of the road, as we continue on the path toward safety. One note here is that Congress has been deafeningly silent in this case. It is primarily a matter for the executive. But Congress has an important constitutional voice that it could lend to this national debate. I do think that the determination rests with the executive. It is time that we talk about some standardized procedures, rather than just simply ad hoc basis, while recognizing that the president should have some discretion to make case-by-case determination for the worst of the enemy combatants, or the kingpins, if you will, of al Qaeda. 


BROWN: Mr. Dinh, we hope that conversation takes place. We hope you'll participate in it. And you're always welcome here to talk about these issues. Thank you, sir, very much.


DINH: Thank you so much.BROWN: Viet Dinh helped write the Patriot Act while at the Justice Department, now a law school professor.Ahead on 


NEWSNIGHT: It is World AIDS Day -- using soccer, or football, for our international footballs, to educate young people about it.This is NEWSNIGHT. We'll be right back. 


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


BROWN: Today is World AIDS Day. And the numbers and the forecasts are grim. The World Health Organization says the epidemic shows no signs of abating. This year alone, five million people became infected with HIV worldwide. Three million died, the highest toll ever. That said, the fight continues, even where the odds are the worst. One in five adults across Southern Africa is now living with HIV/AIDS, the highest rate since the epidemic began, which is why, in Zimbabwe, saving the children is so important, which is where the soccer stars come in. 


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) 


BROWN: In Zimbabwe, soccer is the big good thing. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you can imagine all the major league and minor league sports in America rolled into one, that's how big soccer is. It's absolutely huge. 


BROWN: In Zimbabwe, AIDS is the big bad thing. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Between 1990 and 2000, in that 10-year period, the life expectancy has gone down from 63 to 39. Nobody that I know personally hasn't been touched by this disease in one way or another. 


BROWN: Tommy Clark (ph), Ethan Zone (ph), and Mintembe Molobu (ph) all play professional soccer in Zimbabwe. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I came back, I kept hearing reports about different friends of mine who had died of AIDS. A light bulb went off for me, one, having played there and seen the incredible popularity, the size of the crowds and the sort of celebrity that soccer players enjoy, and also seeing the devastating problem, combining those two made me see like the vision for Grassroots Soccer. 


BROWN: The idea is simple. Grassroots recruits famous soccer players, gives them six weeks of HIV and AIDS training, and then sends them into classrooms for four days. They began the program in Zimbabwe. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretend that this person in the middle is HIV-positive.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're all just doing such a good job, so enthusiastic and very natural teachers. The kids have been very willing to talk about it as well. And it seems almost as if this is -- finally, they have a safe opportunity. BROWN: Children 12 to 14 are targeted for the program. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a good chance they're HIV negative at that age, but they're also thinking about sex. So it seems like an ideal point to catch them. 


BROWN: Written in partnership with the Centers For Disease Control, the Grassroots Soccer curriculum is designed to separate fact from fiction. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The AIDS virus is spread from toilet seats." Thirty seconds.BROWN: And give information they need to protect themselves from HIV. 


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything that we're talking about, it's OK, because it will help us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm learning so many things.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The look on these kids' faces when these soccer players go into the classroom to deliver this message is just unbelievable. 


BROWN: During their seven months in Zimbabwe, 1,000 kids participated in the program. 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is obviously an enormous problem. The more kids we can bring our idea to, the better. We would like, in five years, to have hit every 12- to 14-year-old in Southern Africa. BROWN: One thousand down, 8,589,000 still to go. 


(END VIDEOTAPE)


BROWN: World AIDS Day. We'll check morning papers after the break. 


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)(ROOSTER CROWING) 


BROWN: Oh, how I missed that. Time to check morning papers from around the country. And for those of you who had been keeping track at home of how many papers I do, we'll keep track for you now. They take bets on this. And they think I'm stalling right now, which, of course, I am. "The Philadelphia Inquirer," this would be paper No. 1. "DuPont Shifts Focus Overseas," DuPont a Delaware company, right around the corner. "The company's center of gravity will move to Asia and Eastern Europe as it sheds jobs and consolidates to cut nearly $1 billion in cost," a legit lead story on the front page of a very good newspaper, "The Philadelphia Inquirer.""The Atlanta Constitution" leads with the economy, "A Two-Fisted Recovery. Housing Rises, Factory Hums." A story that caught my eye plays into what we were talking to Viet Dinh about a few moments ago. "Bush Wants Freer Rein to Make Arrests Abroad." The government will argue it has the right to go into foreign countries and snatch suspects, if it decides it wants to. It will go to the Supreme Court. "The Detroit News," also political on the front page. "Weary Factory Workers Hear Bush Tout Jobs. After Fund-Raiser, Bush Visits Auto Supply Company, Boasts of Strengthening Economy." They're not happy with the president in Michigan because of the loss of manufacturing jobs. And so he has some work to do there. How we doing on time? 


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty seconds. 


BROWN: Thank you. "The Dallas Morning News." I like this story a lot. It's actually an Oklahoma story, but it leads the Dallas paper. "They're going to let us die a natural death 20 years after becoming a Superfund cleanup site." This is outrageous. You know that? "Oklahoma Area Still Lives With Lead Contamination." There's no money, they say, to clean up these Superfund sites. "Wipeout" is "The Boston Herald" headline. "Public Safety Trio Axed in Shakeup." That's a word that always scares me, to be honest."The Washington Times." "Registration of Muslims, Arabs Halted. Homeland Security Ends Immigration Program." And, if I can find it, and I have, "The Chicago Sun-Times"' headline. "Arson Investigators Puzzled By Gasoline on Loop Fire Debris." That's that terrible high-rise fire. Weather tomorrow, I don't get it, "minty fresh." That's the weather tomorrow in Chicago. We'll wrap up the day in just a moment.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


BROWN: Before we go tonight, a quick recap of our top story: the videotaped beating over the weekend of a black suspect by Cincinnati police officers. The county coroner's office said today, Nathaniel Jones, who died a short time later, had both cocaine and PCP in his system, along with evidence of heart disease, an enlarged heart. In addition to the beating, the tape shows Mr. Jones lunging at the officers. Earlier in the program, Cincinnati's mayor said he regretted the loss of life, but believes police acted properly in the case. Tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT: small things to some, the world to others, sifting through the debris of 9/11 to preserve pieces of history. That's tomorrow on the program. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.Good to see you all again. And good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT. 


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