Cloning Breakthrough; Steroid Indictments; Atkins Changing Way Americans Eat?
Aired February 12, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again. We're in Atlanta tonight. So, is it good news or bad? As we'll report shortly, scientists in South Korea say they've created human embryos through cloning, a major step toward being able to clone a baby. While the scientists work on perfecting their technique, the rest of us can consider the ethical ramifications of it all. There are the prospects of great medical advances, cures to horrible diseases, great stuff. Then there is also the not-so-great stuff, at least to many people. Many people think that we are now racing to that brave new world where science outpaces ethics. This is not a dispute to settle in one night. It is one to understand better, and we shall. It begins "The Whip."CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta gets us started on the cloning story. A headline from you tonight, please.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Breakthroughs aren't a word that are often used by researchers. But it probably applies here. Researchers in South Korea have cloned a human embryo, taken those stem cells and performed a critical step toward creating replacement parts for humans.BROWN: Sanjay, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.Next, to what seems like the forgotten player in the ImClone scandal, the drug at the center of it all. CNN's Allan Chernoff with us. Allan, a headline from you.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ImClone's cancer drug gets approval on its second go-round before the Food and Drug Administration. But it's too late for thousands of cancer patients, as well as Martha Stewart and ImClone founder Sam Waksal. BROWN: Allan, thank you. Drugs and scandal elsewhere tonight also. This scandal involves steroids in big league sports. CNN's Josie Burke does the reporting and offers up a headline.
JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the personal trainer for baseball superstar Barry bonds, the most prolific home run hitter in the game, was among those indicted today for conspiring to distribute performance-enhancing drugs to athletes -- Aaron.
BROWN: Josie, thank you. And finally to Boston and the bitter fight over gay marriage in Massachusetts. CNN's David Mattingly with the duty. David, a headline today?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, state lawmakers are only looking for a simple majority to get behind a proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. And so far, they haven't been able to find it -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly. Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT from Atlanta, under fire in the board room and under attack in the market place. We'll hear what the head man at Disney plans to do to keep his job, a well-paying job, that. Later, the controversy continues after his death, Dr. Robert Atkins and the ongoing effect on the foods we eat. We'll all dip into the gossip front, something we rarely do here at NEWSNIGHT, to get to the bottom of the breakup of Ken and Barbie. And perhaps that story will make the front page of your morning paper. I'll bet it makes many. We'll get an early jump on Friday, rooster in tow. All that and more in the hour ahead. We begin tonight either one small step down a road to a better and healthier tomorrow or one giant leap into the brave new world, perhaps a bit of both. Like the embryonic cells that researchers say they can now manipulate, the possibilities are nearly limitless. So are the implications, for making people better, or, some worry, for making better people -- that in a moment. First, the news of the day and CNN's Sanjay Gupta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): These researchers from South Korea have accomplished a first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to a nouns the successful derivation of human embryo stem cells from cloned human
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
GUPTA: Yes, they cloned a human cell. No, they did not try to make a baby, nor did they develop a radically new technique. They used essentially the same method used to create Dolly the sheep. But the South Korean scientists stopped well short of letting their embryo develop to full term. Here's what they did. Researchers took an egg from a Korean woman, removed all the genetic material from inside that egg, then took the genetic material from another cell from the same woman and injected it into the empty egg. With a chemical bath, the researchers made this egg divide as if it had been fertilized. And after five or six days, the egg turned into a blastocyst. That's an early stage embryo. By then, stem cells had formed inside the blastocyst, which a scientist then removed. By removing those stem cells, the embryo was destroyed. It took many attempts to finally get to one stem cell line. Researchers are calling this a breakthrough because it is a first step towards developing specialized treatments for diabetes, Parkinson's and other genetically-linked diseases. But in theory, if the stem cells had not been removed, the blastocyst could have been implanted to a woman's uterus and possible carried to term, creating a cloned human baby. And that's what many people fear could happen. Now that the way to create an embryo of a human clone for stem cells has been published, could it be a recipe for cloning human beings?
DONALD KENNEDY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "SCIENCE": It's a recipe only in the sense that, catch a turtle is the recipe for turtle sup. That is, there is much difficulty that would remain to anybody who tried to use this technology as a first step toward reproductive cloning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: And all the scientists, including those South Korean scientists, used that press conference also as an opportunity to talk about the ban of reproductive cloning. Still, this is the first important step toward, possibly replacement parts down the line many years.
BROWN: All day, I had a vision of what this story was, is that we had moved a large step down a road that maybe we wanted to go down and maybe we don't want to go down or maybe we don't want to go the whole way. Now, I'm not sure it's a large step. It sounds more like an incremental step.
GUPTA: Yes. Certainly, the outcome is going to be what everything is measured by. Can you actually translate today into therapies for diabetes, Parkinson's and things like that? Getting these stem cells that are going to be a perfect genetic match. If you had diabetes and we did this for you and created pancreatic cells that could be used perfectly for Aaron Brown, no rejection, nothing like that, that is sort of the outcome. But that's still several years down the road. They haven't done this yet, what's happened today yet, but the theory that it could happen has been out there for some time.
BROWN: But several years is not a lot. We're not talking decades, right?
GUPTA: That's right. And if you had to sort of measure the progress of things, this was a large part of the overall progress of things. How long will it take for the rest of that to actually get to those treatments might be incrementally shorter than what it's taken to get to here.
BROWN: Thank you.
GUPTA: Thank you.
BROWN: I have the feeling we're at the beginning of something. As we said, this is an issue of enormous implication, which many Americans disagree how the country should look at it, where the country should go.We're joined tonight by Professor Lee Silver. He is a professor of molecular biology and public affairs at Princeton University. It's nice to see you, sir. Thanks for joining us.
LEE SILVER, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Good evening, Aaron.
BROWN: Professor, put a headline on this from where you saw it today. What is the thing we should be most focused on?
SILVER: Well, this is a giant technical step, in the sense that a lot of scientists thought that, even if human embryo cloning was possible, it would always be very inefficient. And what the Korean scientists have done is, they have developed a method to make cloning of human embryos efficient. There was a 25 percent success rate of turning eggs into embryos. So this suggests that it's -- there's not just a hypothesis stem cells could be used to overcome disease, but this provides really good evidence that -- it's going to be down the line. We're going to be able to use embryonic stem cells to create tissues that can be used to overcome a person's disease.
BROWN: What about this, if anything, should make me nervous?
SILVER: I think that a lot of people are very nervous about reproductive cloning. But there's a bright line between using these cells for therapeutic purposes and for reproductive purposes. And that bright line is whether you put the embryo into a woman's womb or not. If you just work in the laboratory, you cannot create a fetus or a baby. We have to remember, of course, the embryos we're talking about are invisible to the human eye. It's only if you put that into a womb. That's not a slippery slope. That's a giant leap, if somebody did that. And, at the moment, the technology is dangerous in animals. And the Korean scientists didn't do anything to show that it might be safe to use reproductive cloning in humans.
BROWN: Do different countries or different cultures here view the prospects of human baby cloning differently?
SILVER: Well, it's not the human baby cloning that cultures view differently. Most people don't like that idea. I think different cultures look at the human embryo in very different ways. So, in the United States there's a real polarization between those who look at this invisible embryo and equate it with a human being vs. those who just see cells that could be used for tissues that can overcome disease. The Asian countries don't seem to have as much of a problem with using human embryos to overcome disease, which is why a lot of scientists and money is moving to Asia, as opposed to the United States.
BROWN: Back two, 2 1/2 years ago, when the president made his decision and made his speech on stem cell research, there was talk about brain drain and money drain going to other places. Have we, in fact, seen that?
SILVER: Well, in fact, there's some evidence that that actually is happening. We've seen a reduce in the amount of money and research being done in the United States, at the same time, as Singapore and China and now Korea are investing a lot more money, again, because they don't have the same cultural objection that exists in some people in the United States.
BROWN: I'm not quite sure how to ask this question. But I think what I want to know is, do you think, in your lifetime, for example, in your lifetime, they will be able to repair a broken spinal cord, get someone who's paralyzed to walk? Do you anticipate that?
SILVER: I do, actually. I think many scientists are very optimistic that this technology can be used to replace all sorts of tissues and organs. Now, organs are more difficult. I think the first replacement, clinical use of replacement technology will be with simple cells, like muscle cells to overcome heart disease or pancreatic cells to overcome diabetes or perhaps to neurological cells to overcome Parkinson's disease. When you try to make something more complicated, like a kidney, for example, that's going to be further down the road. But I think, perhaps in my lifetime, I might even see that.
BROWN: That would be some sort of day, if we get there. And there will be a lot of battles between now and then, scientific and otherwise.
SILVER: Yes.
BROWN: Professor, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you, sir, very much.
SILVER: Very good to be with you.
BROWN: Thank you, Lee Silver, Professor Lee Silver, out of Princeton University. The Food and Drug Administration today approved a drug that wouldn't have been possible without cutting-edge microbiology. It's a long path to the market, however. It's also tangled up in matters of a more old-fashioned sort, a scandal involving celebrity, greed and something else. The company is ImClone, the drug Erbitux. And the something else is irony. Here's CNN's Allan Chernoff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF (voice-over): FDA approval of Erbitux came too late for many people, Martha Stewart, who dumped her ImClone stock the day before the Food and Drug Administration first rejected the cancer drug more than two years ago.Her friend, Sam Waksal, at the time ImClone's chief executive, tried to sell on inside information that the rejection was coming. Waksal is now serving a seven-year jail term. Stewart is on trial for lying about her sale. Most important of all, it came too late for cancer patients like Rachel Hightower, who died only months after this interview.
RACHEL HIGHTOWER, CANCER PATIENT: If you think you have something that may cure you or may help you at least extend your life, then you're real anxious to get to that drug. And there ought to be ways to expedite the process.
CHERNOFF: Erbitux, also called C-225, treats the most serious type of colon cancer, when it has spread to other parts of the body. Clinical trials showed Erbitux, in combination with chemotherapy, shrank tumors in nearly one-quarter of patients. Yet, oncologists warn, Erbitux is not a cure.
DR. LEN LICHTENFELD, AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: Well, I think it's party that we remember that the benefits of this drug are modest or limited, at most. It's not the magic bullet. It is not the greatest advance in cancer treatment. At best, it has a limited benefit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: Sam Waksal, in a letter to CNN last month, claimed: "My drug is everything I said it was and it would not be here were it not for me." ImClone and its partner, Bristol-Myers Squibb, intend to make Erbitux available ready for patients in two weeks -- Aaron.
BROWN: Allan, thank you very much -- Allan Chernoff, who is in New York tonight. On to another category of drugs and a widening scandal in the world of sports. After an 18-month investigation, a federal grand jury has indicted four men who allegedly operated an illegal drug ring that supplied steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs to athletes. It's the latest twist in a doping scandal that's touched some on pretty big names. Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Josie Burke.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURKE: Those indicted include the two top men at the Bay area company,
BALCO, Victor Conte Jr. and James Valente, track coach Remy Korchemny, and the personal trainer of Barry Bonds, Greg Anderson. No athletes were indicted or identified in court papers. But more than two dozen athletes, including home run king Bonds, did testify before a grand jury leading up to the charges.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The use of anabolic steroids in sports is a matter of great concern to the public. And I believe that the integrity of sports will be re-enforced by enforcement actions. I believe there is already a question in the mind of the public. And it's a question which is well founded given the indictment today.
BURKE: And Ashcroft did not rule out the possibility some could be called as witnesses at trial. The attorney general also did not rule out the chance of further indictments.
ASHCROFT: If, as a result of these facts being made public, we learn additional information which would lead us to act in the defense of our laws and in the defense of our culture against illegal steroids or drug use or the like, we'll take additional activity. We do not want to signal in any way that we are closing the book.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURKE: The four defendants in this case are expected to make their first court appearance tomorrow morning in San Francisco. And as for the most famous athlete associated with this scandal, well today, Barry Bonds did not have to say much about the events. He did issue a statement where he expressed sadness that his friend and trainer, Greg Anderson, had been indicted. But he went on to say that because he did not know the -- quote -- "state of the evidence," he'd have no further comment -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just help me out on a point or two. They are charged with selling this, correct?
BURKE: Selling, distributing, a whole ring starting with Conte, of getting it out there to these athletes all across the sports world.
BROWN: OK. If they were selling or distributing or getting it out there, someone had to be receiving it. Is it a crime to receive the drug? Or is it just a crime to sell it or distribute it or get it out there otherwise?
BURKE: Well, it's interesting how you might interpret the law. It is a crime, Aaron, to take prescription drugs without a prescription. And anabolic steroids, by definition, are drugs that are regulated by prescription. So if you are getting them other than through your doctor, that is a crime. It's not what the authorities are focused on right now. Again, they didn't name names in this indictment. They went through all the different counts. They talked about a Major League Baseball player here, an NFL player here, but did not especially signal out those people by name. It will be interesting to see, if this goes to trial, whether any of those unidentified athletes are called as witnesses and we learn who they are and what they said.
BROWN: Do you know if any athlete was given a grant of immunity to testify before the grand jury?
BURKE: It's been reported that several athletes at the beginning of their testimony were granted limited immunity, not full immunity.
BROWN: Got it. Josie, thank you. We'll see where it goes from here -- Josie Burke tonight.Still ahead on the program, John Kerry on the eve of getting another endorsement from a former competitor. In Massachusetts, the legislature continues to grapple with the issue of gay marriage. It is a struggle there. And later, the low-carb revolution and continued questions about whether his own diet led to Dr. Atkins' death. From Atlanta, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On opposite sides of the country today, the debate over who should be allowed to marry was very much on display. In a direct challenge to California State law, San Francisco City officials began marrying gay couples, even though voters in the state passed a ballot measure in 2000, the year 2000, defining marriage as a union between a man and woman. State lawmakers later approved a domestic partner law that will take effect next year. San Francisco's mayor, who gave the green light to today's gay marriages, contends, California's Constitution outlaws all forms of discrimination, which brings us to the state on the opposite coast and the fierce battle over its constitution. From Massachusetts tonight, here's CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): With two failures already under their belts, Massachusetts legislators failed again to agree on a constitutional ban on gay marriages.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ninety-six in the affirmative, 103 in the negative. The amendment is not adopted.
MATTINGLY: Long days of passionate debate now clearly taking its toll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will not let you get off the hook on the question of marriage.
CROWD: No discrimination!
MATTINGLY: And there was no escaping the demonstrators shouting as lawmakers as they entered the chamber, these wanting gay marriage to remain legal.
JARRETT BARRIOS (D), MASSACHUSETTS STATE SENATOR: Because I will lose numerous financial benefits that go along with marriage, my two children are also affected by this.
MATTINGLY: Freshman Senator Jarrett Barrios, an openly gay legislator, personally appealed for the future protection of his family.
BARRIOS: When your civil rights are being taken away, you have no choice but to educate, to promote, to advocate with every possible thing you can. At least, that was my decision. And I hope I don't live to regret it.
MATTINGLY: But through the emotions, the core of the argument remains the same, one side seeing gay marriage as an issue of legal rights, the other as a fight to protect the sanctity of an age-old institution.
GENEVIEVE WOOD, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: But, ultimately, I think they are going to give the people a chance to vote on whether or not marriage ought to remain as being that of a union of man and of a woman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: About the most obvious sign that any kind of progress is being made is that lawmakers agreed tonight to work past 9:00 and continue debate until midnight -- Aaron. BROWN: David, they've gone through a number of combinations here, all of which include, I think, a ban on gay marriage, civil unions, not civil unions. I guess the question I have is, what's the hangup? What is it they can't ultimately agree on?
MATTINGLY: Well, they're looking for middle ground. And no one right now really knows exactly what that looks like. There's a great deal of political will behind the idea of banning gay marriages. No one can seem to agree, however, how much protection and how to provide protection to gay couples. And that's where the sticking point is.
BROWN: And the other thing to note here is, no matter what the legislature does, come May, not that long from now, gay couples in the state of Massachusetts will be allowed to get married, right?
MATTINGLY: That's right. And the earliest a constitutional amendment could take effect would be 2006. So you have a two-year period where gays will be allowed to marry in Massachusetts. And the question is, what's going to happen to all those marriages? Will those licenses be revoked in the future and what sort of legal problems will that cause for the state in two more years?
BROWN: David, thank you very much. These are complicated waters we're wading through tonight. Thank you. Last night on this program, General Wesley Clark was somewhat noncommittal on whether he would endorse anyone in the race that no longer includes him. Today, he edged closer to an endorsement. Tomorrow, the expectation is, he will lend his name and support to John Kerry. That's the big political news of the day. We emphasize news. Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an interview with CNN's Judy Woodruff, the retired four-star general and now former presidential candidate was coy.
WESLEY CLARK, (D) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm looking forward to seeing John tomorrow, Judy. And I'm looking forward to going to Wisconsin. We'll have more to say about what's happening tomorrow.
WALLACE: A Democratic source says when Wesley Clark throws his support behind John Kerry Friday, he will bring a lot of the southern and military vote along with him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator John Edwards!
WALLACE: But Senator John Edwards is not so sure about that. The North Carolinian rallying in Racine, Wisconsin, predicted before news of the Kerry-Clark pairing that Clark supporters would go to him.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, (D-NC) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now that he's out of the race, I think a lot of voters will be attracted to me, because they know I'm the one person left in this race who has won a tough race in the south.
WALLACE: Howard Dean, teaming up in Madison, with wife Judy, to try to bring his campaign back to life. His aides downplayed the Clark move, noting that the Kerry campaign has said in the past, that endorsements don't matter when it comes to electability. The former Vermont governor, hoping to end his losing streak appeals to Wisconsin's independent spirit.
HOWARD DEAN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The media would like to end this candidacy. They claim the contest is over. They say your voice doesn't matter, they say your vote doesn't count. They expect you to rubber stamp the choice of others. You don't have to listen to them.
WALLACE (on camera): Howard Dean and John Edwards have both said they will stay in this race even if they don't win here on Tuesday. But Dean is now saying this, that if he doesn't win here, he will go home and figure out what to do. Kelly Wallace, CNN, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Few more items before we go to break, all of them Iraq- related, starting with the knotty questions of elections. A top U.N. envoy met today with Iraq's Grand Ayatollah al- Sistani, who wants Iraqis to vote directly for the government that will take power this summer. The Bush administration says that's too complicated. Early elections will not work. It favors a caucus system. The envoy says he favors election, but stopped short of setting a timetable and directly siding with the ayatollah. The top American commander in Iraq came under fire today. General Abizaid and company were at compound in Fallujah when insurgents targeted them with rocket-propelled grenade. The troops returned fire and the general's party escaped injury. And National Guardsman preparing for deployment in Iraq has instead been arrested. Specialist Ryan Anderson, who serves with the 81st Armored Brigade at Fort Lewis, Washington, near Tacoma, is being held on suspicion of aiding the enemy, specifically, according to the Pentagon, of passing secret information to al Qaeda. Sources are telling us that Specialist Anderson, who is a Muslim, was caught in a sting operation in which he was allegedly trying to contact al Qaeda in an Internet chat room. Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, Disney under fire, as the top man fights off a takeover attempt, as well as turmoil in his own boardroom. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In the wonderful world of Disney, there always magic in the air. And just as important, there's always money, too, at least there was, enough to paper over a world of infighting and backbiting and sometimes not-so-great investments. For as long as that held true, the CEO at Disney, Michael Eisner, could do little wrong. Now that money is scarcer, the long knives have come out. A giant cable company is at the door. And at an investors meeting today, Mr. Eisner was on the hot seat. Here's Jen Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Like Mickey Mouse, Michael Eisner is an American icon, a celebrity CEO at home and Hollywood and on Wall Street, but in less familiar territory following an unsolicited bid for his company from Comcast.
MICHAEL EISNER, CEO, DISNEY: We feel that we're running a pretty good company as it is.
ROGERS: If this is a man under siege, in jeopardy of losing his job, it was hard to tell at a previously scheduled investor conference Thursday.
PAUL KIM, MEDIA ANALYST: I think Mr. Eisner carried this very well. He was very relaxed, but confident and very articulate. And it showed through, at least the institutional investors, that this is a team that's working well and everything's kind of coming together for the companies.
ROGERS: And that was the story Disney wanted to sell: The company has never been stronger. Comcast was a punch line.
EISNER: Acquisitions. Oh, we're buying Comcast.
(LAUGHTER)
ROGERS: Eisner critics, who have been sharpening their knives for years, are hardly laughing. But Eisner, the longest serving CEO of a Dow 30 company, told me he's not taking the attacks personally.
EISNER: When you're up there on that pedestal, you've got to expect people are going to take shots at you. And, at the end of the day, quality family entertainment and performance, put those two things together and all the criticism goes away. ROGERS: Making Comcast go away might be a taller order. Jen Rogers, CNN Financial News, Orlando, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few other bits of business now, starting with Ted. United's new budget division got going today. Uni-Ted. Get it? United created it to take on the likes of Southwest, JetBlue and Delta's entry, Song.On Capitol Hill, the Fed chairman, Alan Greenspan, once again, he expected employment to grow in the coming months and inflation to remain low, which didn't exactly move the markets, because, in truth, Mr. Greenspan said exactly the same thing yesterday. So investors sold a bit today, after buying big yesterday. Still to come on the program, the Atkins effect, changing the way Americans eat amid controversy over whether it harmed the man who created it. We'll take a break first. From Atlanta, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Swimmer drives with shark on his leg. Tomorrow night is pizza night for most of the NEWSNIGHT staff and topping night for some. They're the ones, and they know who they are, or perhaps it's should be, we know who we are, picking the pepperoni off the crust, and the cheese and the anchovies, too, anything to avoid a single evil carb. For them and millions more, Dr. Atkins may be gone, but his diet lives on, because, according to a number of studies out now, it does work, which has done little to end the debate over the high-fat, low-carb diet or the man himself. Here's CNN's Adaora Udoji.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Diet guru Dr. Robert Atkins built an estimated $200 million empire selling his famed high-protein, high-fast, low-carbohydrate way to a healthy heart and body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as you cut out the carbohydrate, the weight loss is automatic.
UDOJI: But the latest controversy about whether he was obese and suffering from heart problems before he died raises questions, say some, about Atkins' credibility and the perceived health of his diet.
DR. MARC ZIEGAL, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: It matters whether Atkins was overweight or whether he was a victim of some dietary indiscretion on his own, because people identify with them. He's given authority to what he's doing. He's a cardiologist. He went against the cardiology establishment.
UDOJI: Analysts say, the revelations may have created confusion for millions embracing the low-carb frenzy, Atkins' influence arguably so strong, it's moved markets.
PHIL LEMPERT, FOOD INDUSTRY ANALYST: What we find -- and this is according to ACNielsen's home scan panel -- 17 percent of Americans are eating low-carb. They're on a low-carb diet. That's a huge number. We've never seen a number like that before.
UDOJI: That new ACNielsen survey shows Americans are buying less high-carbohydrate foods, rice, 8 percent less than last year, pasta, down 5 percent. Orange juice slipped 4. At the same time, they're picking up low-carb diet foods, 9 percent more nuts, meat snacks up 8 percent, and sausage up 4.
JIM GAWLEY, FOOD INSTITUTE: We're seeing that sales of low-carb products at retail were expected to be -- or estimated at $15 billion last year. And they're expected to double this year to $30 billion.
UDOJI: Trying to gobble up that market, food manufacturers, including Atkins, have launched over 500 new products, everything from low-carb beer to chocolate.
ZIEGAL: If somebody manages to show that, in some respect, the diet is unhealthy, then that causes a lot of problems financially for the groups that are proponents of it. UDOJI: Analysts say, Dr. Atkins may indeed have started a revolution, but persistent questions may hurt his company's bottom line, not the phenomenon he championed. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: More now on the diet and the debate. And, in the interest of full disclosure, let me just say that pepperoni is great without the crust,, but it's not nearly as good as it is with the crust. Barbara Fairchild is the editor in chief of "Bon Appetit" magazine. Nice to have her with us tonight.And I suppose you could look at this and say it's a fad. But if it's a fad, it's a pretty big fad.
BARBARA FAIRCHILD, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "BON APPETIT": Oh, I think it's gone way beyond fad. It's gone way beyond trend. I think it's a frenzy.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Yes. I'm just curious. Have you started to do low-carb recipes and menus in the magazine?
FAIRCHILD: Well, it's interesting, because, really, there's a lot to pick and choose from in the magazine. And it really is all a matter of choice. There's always been a lot in "Bon Appetit" that's been low-carb.
BROWN: Yes.
FAIRCHILD: We do a lot of recipes for meat, of course. So you can really stay on the program quite easily. But, I think the bottom line here is that the main thing is portion control and enjoying life and the pleasures of the table, instead of just worrying about downing two pounds of steak.
BROWN: Well, that's the problem, isn't it? For foodies and the rest, a world without fresh baked bread is hardly worth living in.
FAIRCHILD: That's really what's missing here, Aaron. You've really hit it on the head.I think it's very ironic that, at a time in the U.S. where we have so many delicious artisanal breads that are available all over the country, that people are shunning carbohydrates and also not picking and choosing among the so-called good carbs vs. the bad carbs. That's a whole subgenre of this whole debate. And I think a lot of companies are suffering because of it.
BROWN: It does work, though.
FAIRCHILD: It works. It works for some people. It's like anything, really. Weight Watchers works for a lot of people. It just really depends upon your mind-set, too, at the time that you start.
BROWN: But without -- you know, I'm not going to be an endorser of this, believe me. I'm not even close to at weight. But there's something quite wonderful about knowing that the worst thing you did today was ate a four-pound steak.
FAIRCHILD: Well, it's certainly easy to stay on.
BROWN: Yes.
FAIRCHILD: Because these foods have always been a part of the American diet. And they're certainly very, very available. It's funny.One of my staff went on the diet for three days. And she came into my office and she said, you know, it's the first diet I've ever been on where I craved a peach. So I thought that said a lot.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: That's true, though, in a way. There's a lot about it that is counter intuitive, the notion that fresh fruit is not good for you, the notion, honestly, that bread isn't good for you. I mean
(CROSSTALK)
FAIRCHILD: Right, or the wonderful vegetables that you can get today. The other parallel thing that's happening in this country is rise once again of excellent farmers markets all over the country. And most of that is fruits and vegetables and herbs and wonderful things that you can do to give yourself a healthy lifestyle, enjoy -- again, enjoying the pleasures of the table, which is I think something that's really missing here. Once we start talking about like the glycemic index and all that kind of thing, I feel as if we're going to be sitting around at the table, not talking about what we did today, but counting everything that's going into our mouths. That's no fun.
BROWN: Oh, I think we've reached that point. Here's my true-life solution to this, is that, every now and then, a couple times a year, for two, three weeks, you go on this diet and you lose eight pounds or 10 pounds or whatever, and then you go back and serve up some rice.
FAIRCHILD: And, indeed, a lot of people are doing it that way. And I think that's probably the way to do it, instead of over the long term. Let's put it this way. The day after tomorrow is Valentine's Day. I don't want a pound of bacon as my gift.
BROWN: Oh, really?
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: You know, it's interesting, because that was your parting gift from the program tonight.
(LAUGHTER)
FAIRCHILD: Oh, thank you. That's what that is over there. OK, great.
BROWN: Yes, and some really cheap ground beef.
FAIRCHILD: Thank you. And a dozen eggs.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: You're a tough guest. All right, well, somebody find her some chocolate and move it along.Nice to have you with us. Come back again and talk about other more interesting sort of food things.
FAIRCHILD: OK. Thanks.
BROWN: Food trends and the like, rather than just meat. Thank you much.
FAIRCHILD: Great.
BROWN: Nice to meet you, too. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, well, is this a NEWSNIGHT first? I think this probably is for us. We're going to take a gander, if you will, at celebrity gossip, yes, the sordid details of the breakup of Barbie and Ken. We'll take a break first. We'll get you ready. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, we personally think the timing was insensitive or at best ill-considered. Really, Valentine's Day is just two days away. But then maybe it's better this way, a clean break, instead of going through the motions once again, smiling that same frozen smile that, it turns out, hid so much from the world. Today, we learned, the ultimate couple, the one we thought would never part, was calling it quits. Kaput. We knew they were plastic, really plastic, nowhere close to biodegradable. Their love, it seems, was. Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First Ben and Jen. Now Barbie and Ken? Their dancing days are over after 43 years of romantic walks and frolicking on the beach. Mattel made it official.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The flame of romance has gone out.
MOOS: At a jampacked press conference, they played the commercial that brought Barbie and Ken together back in 1961.
ANNOUNCER: It could lead to this. MOOS: Instead, it led to this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She dumped him. He didn't dump her.
MOOS: Any truth to rumors about Ken's sexual orientation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can speak to that. I've been with Ken for ten years. Stop fronting, Ken. It is nice to have you home. You're a liar. I'm straight as an arrow.
MOOS: Jokester reporters aside, Mattel said last year was a challenging one for Barbie sales. Toy analysts describe the break-up as an effort to revitalize the brand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe Barbie will get a new boyfriend.
MOOS: Maybe. Ken's replacement is expected in the fall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've heard rumors and I think his name is Blaine.
MOOS: As for poor Ken...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not being disappeared, he's just simply not going to have the word boyfriend associated with him. MOOS: A new Barbie was unveiled waving goodbye to Ken. Barbie will be tossing out Ken's photos. As for who gets to keep Barbie's dream house? No question it is Barbie which leaves girls debating where to put him Ken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I may put my dog...
MOOS: It is a dog eat dog world. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: The rooster has a Southern drawl when we do the program from Atlanta, doesn't it? It doesn't? Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, or, in this case, around the country and a couple stops in Asia. Now, you think you know, don't you, what lead in "The Korea Herald" is, because what was the big story of the day, not just in Korea, everywhere, right? You're wrong. The big story in "The Korea Herald," "Samsung Gave GNP" -- GNP in this case is a political party -- "Another $17 Billion" something. Won, maybe? "Prosecution Expanding Probe of Main Opposition Party Campaign Funds." That's the lead. Down in the middle of the page -- if you can go down there. I'm not sure you can. "Korean Clone Human Embryos For Stem Cells." So it certainly makes the front page, but it's not the dominant story on the front page of "The Korea Herald."
"The China Daily." That would be the newspaper -- or a newspaper -- it wouldn't be the newspaper -- in Taiwan, because it's in English, thank goodness. "Drug Trafficking on the Rise: 72 Percent of Users Under 35" is the headline. "Ministry's 2004 focus including curbing production of heroin and ice." All right, that's a quick tour of Asia. We move now -- so, you see, we'll working our way back east. We'll stoop at "The Oregonian," the newspaper in Portland, Oregon, though they probably want you to say the newspaper of Oregon.
They call it "The Oregonian," after all. And they play cloning very hard. "Cloning Find Revives Debate. Implications of First Cloned Human Embryos Are Far-reaching and Hotly Contested." They certainly did a nice kind of graphic layout of all of this on the front page of "The Oregonian." They also all put the steroid story. "Steroid Charges Nets Bonds'" -- that's Barry Bonds -- "Trainer." Front page of "The Oregonian."
"The Miami Herald" -- how much time, Terry (ph)? Thank you. "Miami Meets the Beatles" is the headline. That's the story, at least, that caught my eye, that great picture of the Fab Four. I don't think I have ever said the Fab Four, but the Fab Four frolicking -- I don't think I've ever said frolicking -- in the Atlantic on their tour of Florida, tour of the states 40 years ago. Don't you feel old? I do.
"The Philadelphia Inquirer." Nothing amusing about this, my friends. "Starvation Report Blames New Jersey. Unheeded Advice. Boys' Health Problems Were Voted, Yet Adoptions Proceeded." You might remember this story. We did it a couple nights about these young children who were starved. What was that about, my friends?
"The Washington Times" leads with Washington, coincidentally. "Greenspan Backs Bush Tax Cuts" is the lead there. One paper from Detroit tonight. Why don't we do that? It' a local story. "School Funding Fight Looms. Granholm" -- that's the governor of the state of Michigan" -- "Budgets Restore Cuts to Poor School Districts." That makes sense to me.
"Chicago Sun-Times." "Army G.I. Tried to Help al Qaeda" is the headline." "National Guardsman Accused of Offering Tips to the Terrorist Network." Man. Look, if people behaved, I'd be out of work.The weather tomorrow is "heat wave," 34 degrees in -- that thing came with me to Atlanta. We'll wrap up the day in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A quick recap of our top story before we say good night.The first published report of human cloning. South Korean and American researchers say they have cloned a human embryo, not for reproduction, but to make stem cells. Many believe stem cells hold the possibility for treating a number of ugly diseases, including Parkinson's and diabetes. But some worry that this sort of research also opens a Pandora's box, if you will. Tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, she's unique, truly unique, the only woman referee in major sport -- well, a major men's sport, at least. We'll meet Violet Palmer, see how she keeps NBA players in their place. That's tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, 10:00 Eastern time. Before we go, Bill Hemmer with a look at what's coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, thank you. Tomorrow morning here on "AMERICAN MORNING," some of the most serious accusations made regarding the president's air National Guard service, accusations the White House calls outrageous. We'll talk to a retired member of the Texas Guard. He says he heard officers talking about embarrassing information in the president's file. Also says later, he saw some of his records in the trash. What does he know today and can he prove any of it? We'll check it out tomorrow morning here on "AMERICAN MORNING," 7:00 a.m. Eastern time. Hope to see you then -- Aaron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Thank you. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you.We'll see you tomorrow from New York, weather willing, 10:00 Eastern time. Good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.comWay Americans Eat?>
Aired February 12, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again. We're in Atlanta tonight. So, is it good news or bad? As we'll report shortly, scientists in South Korea say they've created human embryos through cloning, a major step toward being able to clone a baby. While the scientists work on perfecting their technique, the rest of us can consider the ethical ramifications of it all. There are the prospects of great medical advances, cures to horrible diseases, great stuff. Then there is also the not-so-great stuff, at least to many people. Many people think that we are now racing to that brave new world where science outpaces ethics. This is not a dispute to settle in one night. It is one to understand better, and we shall. It begins "The Whip."CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta gets us started on the cloning story. A headline from you tonight, please.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Breakthroughs aren't a word that are often used by researchers. But it probably applies here. Researchers in South Korea have cloned a human embryo, taken those stem cells and performed a critical step toward creating replacement parts for humans.BROWN: Sanjay, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.Next, to what seems like the forgotten player in the ImClone scandal, the drug at the center of it all. CNN's Allan Chernoff with us. Allan, a headline from you.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ImClone's cancer drug gets approval on its second go-round before the Food and Drug Administration. But it's too late for thousands of cancer patients, as well as Martha Stewart and ImClone founder Sam Waksal. BROWN: Allan, thank you. Drugs and scandal elsewhere tonight also. This scandal involves steroids in big league sports. CNN's Josie Burke does the reporting and offers up a headline.
JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the personal trainer for baseball superstar Barry bonds, the most prolific home run hitter in the game, was among those indicted today for conspiring to distribute performance-enhancing drugs to athletes -- Aaron.
BROWN: Josie, thank you. And finally to Boston and the bitter fight over gay marriage in Massachusetts. CNN's David Mattingly with the duty. David, a headline today?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, state lawmakers are only looking for a simple majority to get behind a proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. And so far, they haven't been able to find it -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly. Also coming up tonight on NEWSNIGHT from Atlanta, under fire in the board room and under attack in the market place. We'll hear what the head man at Disney plans to do to keep his job, a well-paying job, that. Later, the controversy continues after his death, Dr. Robert Atkins and the ongoing effect on the foods we eat. We'll all dip into the gossip front, something we rarely do here at NEWSNIGHT, to get to the bottom of the breakup of Ken and Barbie. And perhaps that story will make the front page of your morning paper. I'll bet it makes many. We'll get an early jump on Friday, rooster in tow. All that and more in the hour ahead. We begin tonight either one small step down a road to a better and healthier tomorrow or one giant leap into the brave new world, perhaps a bit of both. Like the embryonic cells that researchers say they can now manipulate, the possibilities are nearly limitless. So are the implications, for making people better, or, some worry, for making better people -- that in a moment. First, the news of the day and CNN's Sanjay Gupta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): These researchers from South Korea have accomplished a first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to a nouns the successful derivation of human embryo stem cells from cloned human
(UNINTELLIGIBLE).
GUPTA: Yes, they cloned a human cell. No, they did not try to make a baby, nor did they develop a radically new technique. They used essentially the same method used to create Dolly the sheep. But the South Korean scientists stopped well short of letting their embryo develop to full term. Here's what they did. Researchers took an egg from a Korean woman, removed all the genetic material from inside that egg, then took the genetic material from another cell from the same woman and injected it into the empty egg. With a chemical bath, the researchers made this egg divide as if it had been fertilized. And after five or six days, the egg turned into a blastocyst. That's an early stage embryo. By then, stem cells had formed inside the blastocyst, which a scientist then removed. By removing those stem cells, the embryo was destroyed. It took many attempts to finally get to one stem cell line. Researchers are calling this a breakthrough because it is a first step towards developing specialized treatments for diabetes, Parkinson's and other genetically-linked diseases. But in theory, if the stem cells had not been removed, the blastocyst could have been implanted to a woman's uterus and possible carried to term, creating a cloned human baby. And that's what many people fear could happen. Now that the way to create an embryo of a human clone for stem cells has been published, could it be a recipe for cloning human beings?
DONALD KENNEDY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "SCIENCE": It's a recipe only in the sense that, catch a turtle is the recipe for turtle sup. That is, there is much difficulty that would remain to anybody who tried to use this technology as a first step toward reproductive cloning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: And all the scientists, including those South Korean scientists, used that press conference also as an opportunity to talk about the ban of reproductive cloning. Still, this is the first important step toward, possibly replacement parts down the line many years.
BROWN: All day, I had a vision of what this story was, is that we had moved a large step down a road that maybe we wanted to go down and maybe we don't want to go down or maybe we don't want to go the whole way. Now, I'm not sure it's a large step. It sounds more like an incremental step.
GUPTA: Yes. Certainly, the outcome is going to be what everything is measured by. Can you actually translate today into therapies for diabetes, Parkinson's and things like that? Getting these stem cells that are going to be a perfect genetic match. If you had diabetes and we did this for you and created pancreatic cells that could be used perfectly for Aaron Brown, no rejection, nothing like that, that is sort of the outcome. But that's still several years down the road. They haven't done this yet, what's happened today yet, but the theory that it could happen has been out there for some time.
BROWN: But several years is not a lot. We're not talking decades, right?
GUPTA: That's right. And if you had to sort of measure the progress of things, this was a large part of the overall progress of things. How long will it take for the rest of that to actually get to those treatments might be incrementally shorter than what it's taken to get to here.
BROWN: Thank you.
GUPTA: Thank you.
BROWN: I have the feeling we're at the beginning of something. As we said, this is an issue of enormous implication, which many Americans disagree how the country should look at it, where the country should go.We're joined tonight by Professor Lee Silver. He is a professor of molecular biology and public affairs at Princeton University. It's nice to see you, sir. Thanks for joining us.
LEE SILVER, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: Good evening, Aaron.
BROWN: Professor, put a headline on this from where you saw it today. What is the thing we should be most focused on?
SILVER: Well, this is a giant technical step, in the sense that a lot of scientists thought that, even if human embryo cloning was possible, it would always be very inefficient. And what the Korean scientists have done is, they have developed a method to make cloning of human embryos efficient. There was a 25 percent success rate of turning eggs into embryos. So this suggests that it's -- there's not just a hypothesis stem cells could be used to overcome disease, but this provides really good evidence that -- it's going to be down the line. We're going to be able to use embryonic stem cells to create tissues that can be used to overcome a person's disease.
BROWN: What about this, if anything, should make me nervous?
SILVER: I think that a lot of people are very nervous about reproductive cloning. But there's a bright line between using these cells for therapeutic purposes and for reproductive purposes. And that bright line is whether you put the embryo into a woman's womb or not. If you just work in the laboratory, you cannot create a fetus or a baby. We have to remember, of course, the embryos we're talking about are invisible to the human eye. It's only if you put that into a womb. That's not a slippery slope. That's a giant leap, if somebody did that. And, at the moment, the technology is dangerous in animals. And the Korean scientists didn't do anything to show that it might be safe to use reproductive cloning in humans.
BROWN: Do different countries or different cultures here view the prospects of human baby cloning differently?
SILVER: Well, it's not the human baby cloning that cultures view differently. Most people don't like that idea. I think different cultures look at the human embryo in very different ways. So, in the United States there's a real polarization between those who look at this invisible embryo and equate it with a human being vs. those who just see cells that could be used for tissues that can overcome disease. The Asian countries don't seem to have as much of a problem with using human embryos to overcome disease, which is why a lot of scientists and money is moving to Asia, as opposed to the United States.
BROWN: Back two, 2 1/2 years ago, when the president made his decision and made his speech on stem cell research, there was talk about brain drain and money drain going to other places. Have we, in fact, seen that?
SILVER: Well, in fact, there's some evidence that that actually is happening. We've seen a reduce in the amount of money and research being done in the United States, at the same time, as Singapore and China and now Korea are investing a lot more money, again, because they don't have the same cultural objection that exists in some people in the United States.
BROWN: I'm not quite sure how to ask this question. But I think what I want to know is, do you think, in your lifetime, for example, in your lifetime, they will be able to repair a broken spinal cord, get someone who's paralyzed to walk? Do you anticipate that?
SILVER: I do, actually. I think many scientists are very optimistic that this technology can be used to replace all sorts of tissues and organs. Now, organs are more difficult. I think the first replacement, clinical use of replacement technology will be with simple cells, like muscle cells to overcome heart disease or pancreatic cells to overcome diabetes or perhaps to neurological cells to overcome Parkinson's disease. When you try to make something more complicated, like a kidney, for example, that's going to be further down the road. But I think, perhaps in my lifetime, I might even see that.
BROWN: That would be some sort of day, if we get there. And there will be a lot of battles between now and then, scientific and otherwise.
SILVER: Yes.
BROWN: Professor, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you, sir, very much.
SILVER: Very good to be with you.
BROWN: Thank you, Lee Silver, Professor Lee Silver, out of Princeton University. The Food and Drug Administration today approved a drug that wouldn't have been possible without cutting-edge microbiology. It's a long path to the market, however. It's also tangled up in matters of a more old-fashioned sort, a scandal involving celebrity, greed and something else. The company is ImClone, the drug Erbitux. And the something else is irony. Here's CNN's Allan Chernoff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF (voice-over): FDA approval of Erbitux came too late for many people, Martha Stewart, who dumped her ImClone stock the day before the Food and Drug Administration first rejected the cancer drug more than two years ago.Her friend, Sam Waksal, at the time ImClone's chief executive, tried to sell on inside information that the rejection was coming. Waksal is now serving a seven-year jail term. Stewart is on trial for lying about her sale. Most important of all, it came too late for cancer patients like Rachel Hightower, who died only months after this interview.
RACHEL HIGHTOWER, CANCER PATIENT: If you think you have something that may cure you or may help you at least extend your life, then you're real anxious to get to that drug. And there ought to be ways to expedite the process.
CHERNOFF: Erbitux, also called C-225, treats the most serious type of colon cancer, when it has spread to other parts of the body. Clinical trials showed Erbitux, in combination with chemotherapy, shrank tumors in nearly one-quarter of patients. Yet, oncologists warn, Erbitux is not a cure.
DR. LEN LICHTENFELD, AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: Well, I think it's party that we remember that the benefits of this drug are modest or limited, at most. It's not the magic bullet. It is not the greatest advance in cancer treatment. At best, it has a limited benefit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: Sam Waksal, in a letter to CNN last month, claimed: "My drug is everything I said it was and it would not be here were it not for me." ImClone and its partner, Bristol-Myers Squibb, intend to make Erbitux available ready for patients in two weeks -- Aaron.
BROWN: Allan, thank you very much -- Allan Chernoff, who is in New York tonight. On to another category of drugs and a widening scandal in the world of sports. After an 18-month investigation, a federal grand jury has indicted four men who allegedly operated an illegal drug ring that supplied steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs to athletes. It's the latest twist in a doping scandal that's touched some on pretty big names. Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Josie Burke.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURKE: Those indicted include the two top men at the Bay area company,
BALCO, Victor Conte Jr. and James Valente, track coach Remy Korchemny, and the personal trainer of Barry Bonds, Greg Anderson. No athletes were indicted or identified in court papers. But more than two dozen athletes, including home run king Bonds, did testify before a grand jury leading up to the charges.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The use of anabolic steroids in sports is a matter of great concern to the public. And I believe that the integrity of sports will be re-enforced by enforcement actions. I believe there is already a question in the mind of the public. And it's a question which is well founded given the indictment today.
BURKE: And Ashcroft did not rule out the possibility some could be called as witnesses at trial. The attorney general also did not rule out the chance of further indictments.
ASHCROFT: If, as a result of these facts being made public, we learn additional information which would lead us to act in the defense of our laws and in the defense of our culture against illegal steroids or drug use or the like, we'll take additional activity. We do not want to signal in any way that we are closing the book.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURKE: The four defendants in this case are expected to make their first court appearance tomorrow morning in San Francisco. And as for the most famous athlete associated with this scandal, well today, Barry Bonds did not have to say much about the events. He did issue a statement where he expressed sadness that his friend and trainer, Greg Anderson, had been indicted. But he went on to say that because he did not know the -- quote -- "state of the evidence," he'd have no further comment -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just help me out on a point or two. They are charged with selling this, correct?
BURKE: Selling, distributing, a whole ring starting with Conte, of getting it out there to these athletes all across the sports world.
BROWN: OK. If they were selling or distributing or getting it out there, someone had to be receiving it. Is it a crime to receive the drug? Or is it just a crime to sell it or distribute it or get it out there otherwise?
BURKE: Well, it's interesting how you might interpret the law. It is a crime, Aaron, to take prescription drugs without a prescription. And anabolic steroids, by definition, are drugs that are regulated by prescription. So if you are getting them other than through your doctor, that is a crime. It's not what the authorities are focused on right now. Again, they didn't name names in this indictment. They went through all the different counts. They talked about a Major League Baseball player here, an NFL player here, but did not especially signal out those people by name. It will be interesting to see, if this goes to trial, whether any of those unidentified athletes are called as witnesses and we learn who they are and what they said.
BROWN: Do you know if any athlete was given a grant of immunity to testify before the grand jury?
BURKE: It's been reported that several athletes at the beginning of their testimony were granted limited immunity, not full immunity.
BROWN: Got it. Josie, thank you. We'll see where it goes from here -- Josie Burke tonight.Still ahead on the program, John Kerry on the eve of getting another endorsement from a former competitor. In Massachusetts, the legislature continues to grapple with the issue of gay marriage. It is a struggle there. And later, the low-carb revolution and continued questions about whether his own diet led to Dr. Atkins' death. From Atlanta, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On opposite sides of the country today, the debate over who should be allowed to marry was very much on display. In a direct challenge to California State law, San Francisco City officials began marrying gay couples, even though voters in the state passed a ballot measure in 2000, the year 2000, defining marriage as a union between a man and woman. State lawmakers later approved a domestic partner law that will take effect next year. San Francisco's mayor, who gave the green light to today's gay marriages, contends, California's Constitution outlaws all forms of discrimination, which brings us to the state on the opposite coast and the fierce battle over its constitution. From Massachusetts tonight, here's CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): With two failures already under their belts, Massachusetts legislators failed again to agree on a constitutional ban on gay marriages.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ninety-six in the affirmative, 103 in the negative. The amendment is not adopted.
MATTINGLY: Long days of passionate debate now clearly taking its toll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will not let you get off the hook on the question of marriage.
CROWD: No discrimination!
MATTINGLY: And there was no escaping the demonstrators shouting as lawmakers as they entered the chamber, these wanting gay marriage to remain legal.
JARRETT BARRIOS (D), MASSACHUSETTS STATE SENATOR: Because I will lose numerous financial benefits that go along with marriage, my two children are also affected by this.
MATTINGLY: Freshman Senator Jarrett Barrios, an openly gay legislator, personally appealed for the future protection of his family.
BARRIOS: When your civil rights are being taken away, you have no choice but to educate, to promote, to advocate with every possible thing you can. At least, that was my decision. And I hope I don't live to regret it.
MATTINGLY: But through the emotions, the core of the argument remains the same, one side seeing gay marriage as an issue of legal rights, the other as a fight to protect the sanctity of an age-old institution.
GENEVIEVE WOOD, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: But, ultimately, I think they are going to give the people a chance to vote on whether or not marriage ought to remain as being that of a union of man and of a woman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: About the most obvious sign that any kind of progress is being made is that lawmakers agreed tonight to work past 9:00 and continue debate until midnight -- Aaron. BROWN: David, they've gone through a number of combinations here, all of which include, I think, a ban on gay marriage, civil unions, not civil unions. I guess the question I have is, what's the hangup? What is it they can't ultimately agree on?
MATTINGLY: Well, they're looking for middle ground. And no one right now really knows exactly what that looks like. There's a great deal of political will behind the idea of banning gay marriages. No one can seem to agree, however, how much protection and how to provide protection to gay couples. And that's where the sticking point is.
BROWN: And the other thing to note here is, no matter what the legislature does, come May, not that long from now, gay couples in the state of Massachusetts will be allowed to get married, right?
MATTINGLY: That's right. And the earliest a constitutional amendment could take effect would be 2006. So you have a two-year period where gays will be allowed to marry in Massachusetts. And the question is, what's going to happen to all those marriages? Will those licenses be revoked in the future and what sort of legal problems will that cause for the state in two more years?
BROWN: David, thank you very much. These are complicated waters we're wading through tonight. Thank you. Last night on this program, General Wesley Clark was somewhat noncommittal on whether he would endorse anyone in the race that no longer includes him. Today, he edged closer to an endorsement. Tomorrow, the expectation is, he will lend his name and support to John Kerry. That's the big political news of the day. We emphasize news. Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an interview with CNN's Judy Woodruff, the retired four-star general and now former presidential candidate was coy.
WESLEY CLARK, (D) FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm looking forward to seeing John tomorrow, Judy. And I'm looking forward to going to Wisconsin. We'll have more to say about what's happening tomorrow.
WALLACE: A Democratic source says when Wesley Clark throws his support behind John Kerry Friday, he will bring a lot of the southern and military vote along with him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator John Edwards!
WALLACE: But Senator John Edwards is not so sure about that. The North Carolinian rallying in Racine, Wisconsin, predicted before news of the Kerry-Clark pairing that Clark supporters would go to him.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, (D-NC) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now that he's out of the race, I think a lot of voters will be attracted to me, because they know I'm the one person left in this race who has won a tough race in the south.
WALLACE: Howard Dean, teaming up in Madison, with wife Judy, to try to bring his campaign back to life. His aides downplayed the Clark move, noting that the Kerry campaign has said in the past, that endorsements don't matter when it comes to electability. The former Vermont governor, hoping to end his losing streak appeals to Wisconsin's independent spirit.
HOWARD DEAN, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The media would like to end this candidacy. They claim the contest is over. They say your voice doesn't matter, they say your vote doesn't count. They expect you to rubber stamp the choice of others. You don't have to listen to them.
WALLACE (on camera): Howard Dean and John Edwards have both said they will stay in this race even if they don't win here on Tuesday. But Dean is now saying this, that if he doesn't win here, he will go home and figure out what to do. Kelly Wallace, CNN, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Few more items before we go to break, all of them Iraq- related, starting with the knotty questions of elections. A top U.N. envoy met today with Iraq's Grand Ayatollah al- Sistani, who wants Iraqis to vote directly for the government that will take power this summer. The Bush administration says that's too complicated. Early elections will not work. It favors a caucus system. The envoy says he favors election, but stopped short of setting a timetable and directly siding with the ayatollah. The top American commander in Iraq came under fire today. General Abizaid and company were at compound in Fallujah when insurgents targeted them with rocket-propelled grenade. The troops returned fire and the general's party escaped injury. And National Guardsman preparing for deployment in Iraq has instead been arrested. Specialist Ryan Anderson, who serves with the 81st Armored Brigade at Fort Lewis, Washington, near Tacoma, is being held on suspicion of aiding the enemy, specifically, according to the Pentagon, of passing secret information to al Qaeda. Sources are telling us that Specialist Anderson, who is a Muslim, was caught in a sting operation in which he was allegedly trying to contact al Qaeda in an Internet chat room. Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, Disney under fire, as the top man fights off a takeover attempt, as well as turmoil in his own boardroom. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In the wonderful world of Disney, there always magic in the air. And just as important, there's always money, too, at least there was, enough to paper over a world of infighting and backbiting and sometimes not-so-great investments. For as long as that held true, the CEO at Disney, Michael Eisner, could do little wrong. Now that money is scarcer, the long knives have come out. A giant cable company is at the door. And at an investors meeting today, Mr. Eisner was on the hot seat. Here's Jen Rogers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Like Mickey Mouse, Michael Eisner is an American icon, a celebrity CEO at home and Hollywood and on Wall Street, but in less familiar territory following an unsolicited bid for his company from Comcast.
MICHAEL EISNER, CEO, DISNEY: We feel that we're running a pretty good company as it is.
ROGERS: If this is a man under siege, in jeopardy of losing his job, it was hard to tell at a previously scheduled investor conference Thursday.
PAUL KIM, MEDIA ANALYST: I think Mr. Eisner carried this very well. He was very relaxed, but confident and very articulate. And it showed through, at least the institutional investors, that this is a team that's working well and everything's kind of coming together for the companies.
ROGERS: And that was the story Disney wanted to sell: The company has never been stronger. Comcast was a punch line.
EISNER: Acquisitions. Oh, we're buying Comcast.
(LAUGHTER)
ROGERS: Eisner critics, who have been sharpening their knives for years, are hardly laughing. But Eisner, the longest serving CEO of a Dow 30 company, told me he's not taking the attacks personally.
EISNER: When you're up there on that pedestal, you've got to expect people are going to take shots at you. And, at the end of the day, quality family entertainment and performance, put those two things together and all the criticism goes away. ROGERS: Making Comcast go away might be a taller order. Jen Rogers, CNN Financial News, Orlando, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few other bits of business now, starting with Ted. United's new budget division got going today. Uni-Ted. Get it? United created it to take on the likes of Southwest, JetBlue and Delta's entry, Song.On Capitol Hill, the Fed chairman, Alan Greenspan, once again, he expected employment to grow in the coming months and inflation to remain low, which didn't exactly move the markets, because, in truth, Mr. Greenspan said exactly the same thing yesterday. So investors sold a bit today, after buying big yesterday. Still to come on the program, the Atkins effect, changing the way Americans eat amid controversy over whether it harmed the man who created it. We'll take a break first. From Atlanta, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Swimmer drives with shark on his leg. Tomorrow night is pizza night for most of the NEWSNIGHT staff and topping night for some. They're the ones, and they know who they are, or perhaps it's should be, we know who we are, picking the pepperoni off the crust, and the cheese and the anchovies, too, anything to avoid a single evil carb. For them and millions more, Dr. Atkins may be gone, but his diet lives on, because, according to a number of studies out now, it does work, which has done little to end the debate over the high-fat, low-carb diet or the man himself. Here's CNN's Adaora Udoji.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADAORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Diet guru Dr. Robert Atkins built an estimated $200 million empire selling his famed high-protein, high-fast, low-carbohydrate way to a healthy heart and body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as you cut out the carbohydrate, the weight loss is automatic.
UDOJI: But the latest controversy about whether he was obese and suffering from heart problems before he died raises questions, say some, about Atkins' credibility and the perceived health of his diet.
DR. MARC ZIEGAL, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: It matters whether Atkins was overweight or whether he was a victim of some dietary indiscretion on his own, because people identify with them. He's given authority to what he's doing. He's a cardiologist. He went against the cardiology establishment.
UDOJI: Analysts say, the revelations may have created confusion for millions embracing the low-carb frenzy, Atkins' influence arguably so strong, it's moved markets.
PHIL LEMPERT, FOOD INDUSTRY ANALYST: What we find -- and this is according to ACNielsen's home scan panel -- 17 percent of Americans are eating low-carb. They're on a low-carb diet. That's a huge number. We've never seen a number like that before.
UDOJI: That new ACNielsen survey shows Americans are buying less high-carbohydrate foods, rice, 8 percent less than last year, pasta, down 5 percent. Orange juice slipped 4. At the same time, they're picking up low-carb diet foods, 9 percent more nuts, meat snacks up 8 percent, and sausage up 4.
JIM GAWLEY, FOOD INSTITUTE: We're seeing that sales of low-carb products at retail were expected to be -- or estimated at $15 billion last year. And they're expected to double this year to $30 billion.
UDOJI: Trying to gobble up that market, food manufacturers, including Atkins, have launched over 500 new products, everything from low-carb beer to chocolate.
ZIEGAL: If somebody manages to show that, in some respect, the diet is unhealthy, then that causes a lot of problems financially for the groups that are proponents of it. UDOJI: Analysts say, Dr. Atkins may indeed have started a revolution, but persistent questions may hurt his company's bottom line, not the phenomenon he championed. Adaora Udoji, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: More now on the diet and the debate. And, in the interest of full disclosure, let me just say that pepperoni is great without the crust,, but it's not nearly as good as it is with the crust. Barbara Fairchild is the editor in chief of "Bon Appetit" magazine. Nice to have her with us tonight.And I suppose you could look at this and say it's a fad. But if it's a fad, it's a pretty big fad.
BARBARA FAIRCHILD, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "BON APPETIT": Oh, I think it's gone way beyond fad. It's gone way beyond trend. I think it's a frenzy.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Yes. I'm just curious. Have you started to do low-carb recipes and menus in the magazine?
FAIRCHILD: Well, it's interesting, because, really, there's a lot to pick and choose from in the magazine. And it really is all a matter of choice. There's always been a lot in "Bon Appetit" that's been low-carb.
BROWN: Yes.
FAIRCHILD: We do a lot of recipes for meat, of course. So you can really stay on the program quite easily. But, I think the bottom line here is that the main thing is portion control and enjoying life and the pleasures of the table, instead of just worrying about downing two pounds of steak.
BROWN: Well, that's the problem, isn't it? For foodies and the rest, a world without fresh baked bread is hardly worth living in.
FAIRCHILD: That's really what's missing here, Aaron. You've really hit it on the head.I think it's very ironic that, at a time in the U.S. where we have so many delicious artisanal breads that are available all over the country, that people are shunning carbohydrates and also not picking and choosing among the so-called good carbs vs. the bad carbs. That's a whole subgenre of this whole debate. And I think a lot of companies are suffering because of it.
BROWN: It does work, though.
FAIRCHILD: It works. It works for some people. It's like anything, really. Weight Watchers works for a lot of people. It just really depends upon your mind-set, too, at the time that you start.
BROWN: But without -- you know, I'm not going to be an endorser of this, believe me. I'm not even close to at weight. But there's something quite wonderful about knowing that the worst thing you did today was ate a four-pound steak.
FAIRCHILD: Well, it's certainly easy to stay on.
BROWN: Yes.
FAIRCHILD: Because these foods have always been a part of the American diet. And they're certainly very, very available. It's funny.One of my staff went on the diet for three days. And she came into my office and she said, you know, it's the first diet I've ever been on where I craved a peach. So I thought that said a lot.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: That's true, though, in a way. There's a lot about it that is counter intuitive, the notion that fresh fruit is not good for you, the notion, honestly, that bread isn't good for you. I mean
(CROSSTALK)
FAIRCHILD: Right, or the wonderful vegetables that you can get today. The other parallel thing that's happening in this country is rise once again of excellent farmers markets all over the country. And most of that is fruits and vegetables and herbs and wonderful things that you can do to give yourself a healthy lifestyle, enjoy -- again, enjoying the pleasures of the table, which is I think something that's really missing here. Once we start talking about like the glycemic index and all that kind of thing, I feel as if we're going to be sitting around at the table, not talking about what we did today, but counting everything that's going into our mouths. That's no fun.
BROWN: Oh, I think we've reached that point. Here's my true-life solution to this, is that, every now and then, a couple times a year, for two, three weeks, you go on this diet and you lose eight pounds or 10 pounds or whatever, and then you go back and serve up some rice.
FAIRCHILD: And, indeed, a lot of people are doing it that way. And I think that's probably the way to do it, instead of over the long term. Let's put it this way. The day after tomorrow is Valentine's Day. I don't want a pound of bacon as my gift.
BROWN: Oh, really?
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: You know, it's interesting, because that was your parting gift from the program tonight.
(LAUGHTER)
FAIRCHILD: Oh, thank you. That's what that is over there. OK, great.
BROWN: Yes, and some really cheap ground beef.
FAIRCHILD: Thank you. And a dozen eggs.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: You're a tough guest. All right, well, somebody find her some chocolate and move it along.Nice to have you with us. Come back again and talk about other more interesting sort of food things.
FAIRCHILD: OK. Thanks.
BROWN: Food trends and the like, rather than just meat. Thank you much.
FAIRCHILD: Great.
BROWN: Nice to meet you, too. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, well, is this a NEWSNIGHT first? I think this probably is for us. We're going to take a gander, if you will, at celebrity gossip, yes, the sordid details of the breakup of Barbie and Ken. We'll take a break first. We'll get you ready. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Well, we personally think the timing was insensitive or at best ill-considered. Really, Valentine's Day is just two days away. But then maybe it's better this way, a clean break, instead of going through the motions once again, smiling that same frozen smile that, it turns out, hid so much from the world. Today, we learned, the ultimate couple, the one we thought would never part, was calling it quits. Kaput. We knew they were plastic, really plastic, nowhere close to biodegradable. Their love, it seems, was. Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First Ben and Jen. Now Barbie and Ken? Their dancing days are over after 43 years of romantic walks and frolicking on the beach. Mattel made it official.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The flame of romance has gone out.
MOOS: At a jampacked press conference, they played the commercial that brought Barbie and Ken together back in 1961.
ANNOUNCER: It could lead to this. MOOS: Instead, it led to this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She dumped him. He didn't dump her.
MOOS: Any truth to rumors about Ken's sexual orientation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can speak to that. I've been with Ken for ten years. Stop fronting, Ken. It is nice to have you home. You're a liar. I'm straight as an arrow.
MOOS: Jokester reporters aside, Mattel said last year was a challenging one for Barbie sales. Toy analysts describe the break-up as an effort to revitalize the brand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe Barbie will get a new boyfriend.
MOOS: Maybe. Ken's replacement is expected in the fall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've heard rumors and I think his name is Blaine.
MOOS: As for poor Ken...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not being disappeared, he's just simply not going to have the word boyfriend associated with him. MOOS: A new Barbie was unveiled waving goodbye to Ken. Barbie will be tossing out Ken's photos. As for who gets to keep Barbie's dream house? No question it is Barbie which leaves girls debating where to put him Ken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I may put my dog...
MOOS: It is a dog eat dog world. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: The rooster has a Southern drawl when we do the program from Atlanta, doesn't it? It doesn't? Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, or, in this case, around the country and a couple stops in Asia. Now, you think you know, don't you, what lead in "The Korea Herald" is, because what was the big story of the day, not just in Korea, everywhere, right? You're wrong. The big story in "The Korea Herald," "Samsung Gave GNP" -- GNP in this case is a political party -- "Another $17 Billion" something. Won, maybe? "Prosecution Expanding Probe of Main Opposition Party Campaign Funds." That's the lead. Down in the middle of the page -- if you can go down there. I'm not sure you can. "Korean Clone Human Embryos For Stem Cells." So it certainly makes the front page, but it's not the dominant story on the front page of "The Korea Herald."
"The China Daily." That would be the newspaper -- or a newspaper -- it wouldn't be the newspaper -- in Taiwan, because it's in English, thank goodness. "Drug Trafficking on the Rise: 72 Percent of Users Under 35" is the headline. "Ministry's 2004 focus including curbing production of heroin and ice." All right, that's a quick tour of Asia. We move now -- so, you see, we'll working our way back east. We'll stoop at "The Oregonian," the newspaper in Portland, Oregon, though they probably want you to say the newspaper of Oregon.
They call it "The Oregonian," after all. And they play cloning very hard. "Cloning Find Revives Debate. Implications of First Cloned Human Embryos Are Far-reaching and Hotly Contested." They certainly did a nice kind of graphic layout of all of this on the front page of "The Oregonian." They also all put the steroid story. "Steroid Charges Nets Bonds'" -- that's Barry Bonds -- "Trainer." Front page of "The Oregonian."
"The Miami Herald" -- how much time, Terry (ph)? Thank you. "Miami Meets the Beatles" is the headline. That's the story, at least, that caught my eye, that great picture of the Fab Four. I don't think I have ever said the Fab Four, but the Fab Four frolicking -- I don't think I've ever said frolicking -- in the Atlantic on their tour of Florida, tour of the states 40 years ago. Don't you feel old? I do.
"The Philadelphia Inquirer." Nothing amusing about this, my friends. "Starvation Report Blames New Jersey. Unheeded Advice. Boys' Health Problems Were Voted, Yet Adoptions Proceeded." You might remember this story. We did it a couple nights about these young children who were starved. What was that about, my friends?
"The Washington Times" leads with Washington, coincidentally. "Greenspan Backs Bush Tax Cuts" is the lead there. One paper from Detroit tonight. Why don't we do that? It' a local story. "School Funding Fight Looms. Granholm" -- that's the governor of the state of Michigan" -- "Budgets Restore Cuts to Poor School Districts." That makes sense to me.
"Chicago Sun-Times." "Army G.I. Tried to Help al Qaeda" is the headline." "National Guardsman Accused of Offering Tips to the Terrorist Network." Man. Look, if people behaved, I'd be out of work.The weather tomorrow is "heat wave," 34 degrees in -- that thing came with me to Atlanta. We'll wrap up the day in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A quick recap of our top story before we say good night.The first published report of human cloning. South Korean and American researchers say they have cloned a human embryo, not for reproduction, but to make stem cells. Many believe stem cells hold the possibility for treating a number of ugly diseases, including Parkinson's and diabetes. But some worry that this sort of research also opens a Pandora's box, if you will. Tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, she's unique, truly unique, the only woman referee in major sport -- well, a major men's sport, at least. We'll meet Violet Palmer, see how she keeps NBA players in their place. That's tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, 10:00 Eastern time. Before we go, Bill Hemmer with a look at what's coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, thank you. Tomorrow morning here on "AMERICAN MORNING," some of the most serious accusations made regarding the president's air National Guard service, accusations the White House calls outrageous. We'll talk to a retired member of the Texas Guard. He says he heard officers talking about embarrassing information in the president's file. Also says later, he saw some of his records in the trash. What does he know today and can he prove any of it? We'll check it out tomorrow morning here on "AMERICAN MORNING," 7:00 a.m. Eastern time. Hope to see you then -- Aaron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Thank you. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you.We'll see you tomorrow from New York, weather willing, 10:00 Eastern time. Good night for all of us.
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