Iraq One Year After 'Mission Accomplished' Announcement
Aired April 30, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.The end of a long week in a long year. Virtually the entire program tonight looks at Iraq in the year since the president's announcement on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln that major combat was over.The president also said that night that there was still tough work ahead but clearly neither he nor the Pentagon anticipated how tough the work ahead would be. The fact that it is tougher to do does not argue that it should not be done. That is not an argument for us to make one way or the other.Tonight, we'll offer several points of view on that question. For now it is enough to say the road looks a lot longer than it did a year ago that the powerful image the White House staff created on the deck of the Lincoln has been overshadowed by even more powerful and troubling images from Iraq itself.And that is where the whip begins, the photographs being broadcast around the world tonight showing U.S. soldiers mistreating, humiliating Iraqi prisoners. They are powerful stuff, David Ensor at the Pentagon, David the headline.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, at the Pentagon they are saying that these photos could hardly have come at a worse time. There are apologies from the president on down. It's damage control time -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you. We'll get to you quickly tonight.In Iraq, just 60 days to go until power changes hands, still plenty of unknowns. What are Iraqis expecting? From Baghdad, Jane Arraf with the headline -- Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: In a word, Aaron, chaos. Iraqis, despite the fall of Saddam still get a lot of their information from rumor and with so much happening every day no one really knows what will happen 60 days from now.
BROWN: Jane, thank you in Najaf.And, in California, the Michael Jackson case begins again. Frank Buckley at the courthouse today, Frank a headline.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, it was Michael Jackson's second court appearance in his case. He was arraigned on a ten-count indictment from a grand jury. The pop star came to the courthouse with a new lawyer and both of them spoke out.
BROWN: Frank, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.Also on the program on this Friday night, one year after the president declared major combat over in Iraq we look at the progress made and the setbacks that continue.Plus, one National Guard unit's story, been there just six weeks, already seven soldiers lost.And later, thankfully, the lighter side of NEWSNIGHT, morning papers and, this being Friday, a tabloid thrown in or two, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin in Iraq on the last day of the deadliest month yet. Two more Marines were killed today near Fallujah bringing the total number of American dead to 738. More than any other city, Fallujah has become the symbol of Iraqi resistance to the occupation.Today, a significant change in tact. U.S. military officials say Marines who have been battling insurgents in that city will now pull back. The plan is to turn over patrols to Iraqi security troops. How these troops will perform is anyone's guess tonight. For the Marines, a day of mixed feelings.Here's CNN's Karl Penhaul.
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KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Marines play a game of spades in the sitting room of an Iraqi home they've occupied as a base. They may not be here much longer. Their generals have ordered them to end the siege in Fallujah and retreat from the city limits after a month of close quarters urban combat with anti-coalition insurgents. Young Marines seem disappointed.
CPL. CHRISTOPHER RODRIGUEZ, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We've been here for a while. We don't want to lose the ground that we fought so hard for and that we've been here, you know, sweat and blood for the last, you know, month, month and a half and now we have to, you know, give it up.PENHAUL: For the company senior medic, the pullout has an upside.
JASON DUTY, U.S. NAVY CORPSMAN: Myself, I'm kind of relieved that we're a little -- pulling back a little bit just because it will give some of the Marines time to recuperate, rest. They're not getting shot at every day like they are here. They'll be back in the fighting holes and frankly when we're back there we're not going to be taking anywhere near the casualties that we've been taking here.
PENHAUL: This Marine keeps watch from his machine gun nest but today is Muslim Friday prayers and gunfire has been sporadic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misfire, misfire, misfire.
PENHAUL: This rocket team tries to keep sharp with another drill. They were in action against insurgents Sunday down on this street Marines have dubbed sniper alley. Another Marine peers through his lookout over to the scene of Monday's gun battle with insurgents across the graveyard in those houses. One Marine was killed and at least nine others wounded there. Some of those men were under the command of veteran Marine First Sergeant William Skiles. He doesn't see the planned pullout at the end of the fight for Fallujah.
1ST SGT. WILLIAM SKILES, U.S. MARINE CORPS: If they want to pull us out and gives us more space to work with, let's go somewhere else. If they want to come at us, pick a fight, bring it on. We'll fight them over there too. Wherever we go we're going to fight them and we're going to win.PENHAUL (on camera): Marine commanders haven't publicized the time table for pulling troops out and handing control of Fallujah to Iraqi soldiers under the command of a general who served under Saddam Hussein and there's been no official reaction from the insurgents to news of the pullout but they could hail this as their biggest victory yet against the coalition.Karl Penhaul reporting with the camera of John Templeton for U.S. networks pool, Fallujah, Iraq.
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BROWN: In the other major flashpoint city in Najaf, a similar security plan is being explored even as the U.S. military continues to deploy more troops there. The plan under consideration would allow the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps to control the city, which was seized earlier this month by the rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Today Mr. al-Sadr was vowing not to back down.Wars in this day and age always have, it seems, a media dimension to them. We show too much. We show too little. We are undermining the effort. We are puppets of the government. We get them all every single day.The media story tonight involves ABC News "Nightline," perhaps the most respected news broadcast in the country. "Nightline's" decision to air a program that is a simple reading of the names of those who have died in Iraq will air tonight around the country.Seven ABC affiliates owned by Sinclair Broadcasting will not run those programs. Sinclair owns the stations. They get to decide what to run but that decision has created a real storm and one very angry letter.Here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.
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MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Killed in Iraq in February, Army Lieutenant Seth Dvorin's death made the local news. Still, his mother says, hearing his name on "Nightline" is important for her and the country.
SUE NIEDERER, SON DIED IN IRAQ: This is the facing of a reality. These are the people who have been killed for this war. You are now taking the blinders off of people and reading names.
HINOJOSA: Sinclair Broadcast whose CEO donated thousands of dollars to the Bush reelection campaign defended its decision to pull the program saying: "Despite the denials by a spokeswoman for Nightline, the action appears to be motivated by a political agenda designed to undermine the efforts of the United States in Iraq."On conservative talk radio, "Nightline's" motives were challenged.
NEAL BOOERTZ, RADIO COMMENTATOR: Is the motivation to honor the men and women who died or is the motivation to sway Americans against the war in Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely to sway Americans against the war.
HINOJOSA: Ted Koppel denies that.TED KOPPEL, "NIGHTLINE": It is not unreasonable to remind everyone of who these young people are and what they look like.
HINOJOSA: At Sinclair's Ohio station, people protested a decision not to run the program but perhaps the angriest dissent came in a letter to Sinclair's CEO, the writer former POW John McCain, which read in part:"Your decision to deny your viewers an opportunity to be reminded of war's terrible costs, in all their heartbreaking detail, is a gross disservice to the public and to the men and women of the United States armed forces. It is, in short, sir, unpatriotic."(on camera): Even if "Nightline" didn't intend it, the program now has become political. A Democratic Senator is asking the SEC to investigate whether Sinclair's decision not to air "Nightline" is "political censorship at the national level."Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
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BROWN: We have much more on Iraq tonight, including the stories of the humiliation and mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners. A couple of other items first, both court cases, one resolved more or less, the other just beginning. The resolved one first, the case of one time NBA star Jayson Williams on trial in the shooting death of his driver after a night of drinking in his New Jersey home.Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.
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DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jayson Williams walked out of court met by cheering supporters. The former basketball star found not guilty on three of the four shooting charges, his lawyers calling the verdict fair.
BILLY MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jayson and Tanya are very happy. The entire trial team are very pleased and we're glad that they are going home.
FEYERICK: Williams was found guilty on all four cover-up charges, including evidence and witness tampering but on the charge of reckless manslaughter...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No decision was reached.
FEYERICK: The jury was split, 8-4 in favor of acquittal.
SHALISHA HEART, JUROR: The four believed that he was playing around with Gus and that he was playing around with him, picked the gun up and actually pulled the trigger whereas we felt as though it was an accident.
FEYERICK: The judge declared a mistrial on the reckless manslaughter charge. Prosecutors now figuring out whether to try Williams again.
STEVEN LEMBER, PROSECUTOR: We're, of course, disappointed that the jury was unable to return a verdict of guilty on counts 1, 3 and 4 and count 2 is still out there.
FEYERICK (on camera): Defense lawyers will be back in court in three weeks. That's when prosecutors will decide what they plan to do about the reckless manslaughter charge. No sentencing date will be set until then. Williams' prison term now ranging from probation to 13 years.Deborah Feyerick CNN, Somerville, New Jersey.
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BROWN: So, one long-running case over, as we say, another about to begin. That's what an arraignment is, the very beginning.Frank Buckley now on the case of Michael Jackson.
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BUCKLEY (voice-over): Michael Jackson's arrival at the courthouse again, like a Hollywood premier, and this time Jackson spoke to journalists.
MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the earth.
BUCKLEY: Inside, though, Jackson appeared perturbed by the presence of a pool camera. There were no cameras in the courtroom as Judge Rodney Melville announced a ten-count indictment against the singer.The charges, four counts of alleged lewd acts upon a child; one attempted lewd act; four counts of administering an intoxicating agent, alcohol; and conspiracy with others to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion.Jackson's new attorney, Thomas Mesereau, entered a plea of not guilty on all charges on Jackson's behalf.
THOMAS MESEREAU, JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: It's about the dignity, the integrity, the decency, the honor, the charity, the innocence and the complete vindication of a wonderful human being named Michael Jackson.
BUCKLEY (on camera): Jackson also released a written statement saying, in his words, he is completely innocent of these false charges.Frank Buckley CNN, Santa Maria, California.
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BROWN: Back to Iraq next. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, outrage and apologies as photographs of U.S. soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners are shown around the world.Plus, at the end of a long 12 months, a long, hard look at Iraq in all its shades of gray.Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Around the world today, one story out of Iraq dominated the news. It wasn't a battle waged or won. It was something quite different pictures of American soldiers mistreating, humiliating Iraqi prisoners. CBS News first ran the photographs Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II." The abuse they show took place in the very prison infamous for torture during the regime of Saddam Hussein. The military says six American soldiers have been charged so far and could be court martialed. Others far higher in the chain of command will likely be disciplined. The fallout could be immense.We begin with CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor.
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ENSOR (voice-over): Pentagon officials said the photos could hardly come at a worse time. From the president on down American officials are angry and apologetic.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so, I didn't like it one bit.
ENSOR: The humiliation of the prisoners in the photos was especially embarrassing for a president who has repeatedly expressed pride in having closed Saddam Hussein's torture chambers and rape rooms.
BUSH: There will be an investigation and I think they'll be taken care of.
ENSOR: At the Pentagon, one senior official spoke of the danger the photos could incite Iraqis against American soldiers generally saying: "I don't want to suggest that this could cost American lives, but it certainly is hideous."
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: Those soldiers wear the same uniforms as 150,000 other soldiers that are operating proudly and properly here in Iraq and those soldiers let us down. They simply let us down.
ENSOR (on camera): And these may not be the only cases of abuse. U.S. intelligence officials say that the CIA inspector general is cooperating with Defense Department officials looking into some other possible cases, including one where a prisoner at Abu Ghurayb Prison died. A CIA spokesman said: "We do not support or condone abusing prisoners."David Ensor, CNN, the Pentagon.
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BROWN: We wondered, as we often do, how Arab media would play the story and the answer is about the same as media here and around the world. In this case, it seems, there is but one version.
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BROWN (voice-over): This is a story the whole world took in and Arab media played it no differently than most. The pictures are, after all, what they are.First, Al Arabiya, the Saudi-based network, the anchor saying that the United Nations as well as the British and the Australians all condemn the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of their American captors.Al-Jazeera's anchors repeatedly used the words torture and humiliation, neither out of place given the pictures. The anchor called the prisoners' treatment inhumane and unethical and went on to describe in graphic detail what in conservative Arab society is especially shocking.The anchor says that what's happening here is wiring a prisoner with electrical wires and taking photographs. In here, they're gesturing with their hands making the sign of victory and smiling. And here, they're asking the prisoners to disrobe and pose in humiliating positions.On the streets of Baghdad, the reaction to the pictures was swift and not surprisingly critical. This man says that they reject this as Iraqis and as a matter of simple human rights. He says if you have a prisoner, investigate him in a proper way. Otherwise, what used to happen in the past will be repeated.Other Iraqis went beyond the infractions of a few to a wholesale condemnation of the many. This man says, "are these crimes only in Baghdad? What about Guantanamo? What about state terrorism in Fallujah and Najaf?" Finally he said simply "state terrorism is state terrorism."
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BROWN: So, indignation in Iraq, indignation in this country over what some American soldiers are said to have done and now indignation in England as well over the behavior of British troops.The front page of tomorrow's "Daily Mirror" shows a photo of an Iraqi detainee apparently being urinated upon. There are other pictures as well equally shocking in different ways. We've yet to be able to confirm the authenticity of the photos, neither has the British government but, clearly, the government is treating them as the real thing and we have no reason tonight to believe otherwise.In a press conference today, the British chief of the general staff, Sir Michael Jackson has this to say.
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GEN. SIR MICHAEL JACKSON, BRITISH CHIEF OF GENERAL STAFF: The allegations are already under investigation. Again, if proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform. They have besmirched the good name of the Army and its honor.
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BROWN: Michael Jackson of the British Army.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, one year after President Bush declared major combat over another 600 American soldiers are dead. How we got from there to here and what comes next.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: The war in Iraq began on Thursday, the 20th of March, 2003 in Iraq. Thirty-two days later on Thursday, the 1st of May, a year ago tomorrow, the president declared that major combat operations were over. The fighting, however, wasn't over. It still isn't.The picture of Iraq a year later is neither black nor white. It is shades of gray, of successes and there are many improvements in Iraqi life, and failures and they too are considerable.Bad news, we often say, tends to push aside the good and Iraq is no different. That said, Iraq a year later has produced far more bad news than anyone imagined.
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BROWN (voice-over): That one picture a year ago was indelible, "mission accomplished" the banner announce and though the president said there were still troubling days ahead, he announced the end of major combat but, in Iraq, on that day the dying continued.
BATHSEBA CROCKER, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: It was predictable that there was violence and we didn't prepare for that violence and we didn't adequately plan for it.BROWN: Private First Class Jesse Gibbons (ph), stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado, was the first to die after the declaration. He died on May 1, 2003 when his M1 Abrams tank fell into the Euphrates River. He was 34 from Springfield, Missouri. Since then there have been about 600 American deaths in Iraq compared to the 139 who died during the march to Baghdad itself.
CROCKER: There's been a vacuum on the political front and a vacuum on the security front essentially since we entered Iraq last spring and we haven't been successful in filling that vacuum with anything and I think in a vacuum it's very easy for extremists and radicals or whatever you want to call it to take hold.
BROWN: There were plans, of course, plans that included significant roles for men like these, the Iraqi Police and men like these the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, the Iraqi National Guard.The overall American military Commander General John Abizaid says the areas that were considered the safest got the Iraqi forces first.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: And so you'll see in the south and in the north, for example, that the security institutions are fairly mature and fairly capable and, in the center and in the west it's still a long way to go.
BROWN: But what the American military didn't count on was how difficult it would be to find solid, moderate, Iraqi leadership.
ABIZAID: We've also made a few mistakes along the way where we've empowered people that weren't reliable, that weren't capable and that weren't good leaders and we had to remove them.
BROWN: And while the bureaucratic battle has been waged, real battles, real combat was taking place almost every day and often it seemed especially senseless.Last July 26, for instance, three American soldiers died while they were guarding a children's hospital in Baghdad. Someone through a grenade, reinforcing the perception that no place in that city was safe.
CROCKER: I don't tend to be that optimistic at the moment about what's going to turn out in Iraq largely because I think those who have tried to be optimistic so far about the way things are going have not proven to be right yet.
BROWN: But in the capital itself, and this is important to note too, life has gotten better in the past year in many ways. Things work again. There is water. Electricity is back to prewar levels or better, which still means it's off for a few hours every day. There is commerce. Businesses are open and they stay open later and, for the most part, there is a free flow of information.
ABIZAID: Huge numbers of newspapers on the streets. Everywhere you look there's a satellite dish that's bringing in information from all over the world. People are discussing politics in ways that have never before been possible and the security forces aren't knocking at their door in the middle of the night executing people.
BROWN: But the drumbeat of daily violence has not let up. Last November, 16 American soldiers killed when their helicopter was shot down by a missile. And this month, April, especially cruel. As many American soldiers killed in 30 days as died in the invasion of Iraq in the first place, a very long road since Private First Class Jesse Gibbons died on May 1, 2003 at the end of major combat.
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BROWN: There is something unseemly I suppose about following a story so heavy on death with a story so heavy on the costs in dollars of this war but that too is part of the story.April, more than any other month in the year since the speech on the Lincoln, has changed the economics of the war in Iraq. The plan to draw down troop levels has been replaced by a plan to increase them driving the costs of the war even higher.From the Pentagon, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
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JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last April's rosy hopes for a quick, cheap victory have gone up in the smoke of this April's raging combat. All the unexpected wear and tear on military hardware, downed aircraft, burned out vehicles, plus the unanticipated cost of maintaining higher force levels in Iraq is rapidly inflating the war's price tag.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Obviously there are additional costs because we didn't budget for the war, so we all know that eventually there's a bill to be paid.
MCINTYRE: At the Pentagon they have a name for it, the burn rate, how fast the war is consuming money. It was about $4 billion a month. Now it's closer to $5 billion. Among the extra costs, $700 million to keep 20,000 extra troops in Iraq for three months and $400 million to rush armored Humvees to the battlefield.Administration critics in Congress accuse the Pentagon of low- balling the war's true cost by waiting to ask for more money until after the presidential election and leaving billions of dollars in current needs unfunded.
REP. CURT WELDON (R), PENNSYLVANIA: I think the budget request that's been provided to us is short sighted and in the case of the Army I think it's outrageous.
MCINTYRE: Weldon says the Army needs $6 billion more now, including $705 million for even more armored Humvees, $295 million for more body armor, $315 million for munitions, and $114 million for unmanned aerial vehicles. Some in Congress, like Arizona Senator John McCain, say the best way to get the money is to ax some big-ticket pet projects, such as the Air Force's FA-22, which at $258 million a plane, is the world's most expensive fighter aircraft. Killing the $37 billion program would buy a lot of necessities.
THOMAS BARNETT, AUTHOR, "THE PENTAGON'S NEW MAP": How many of those amazingly cheap armored Humvees can I buy if I buy 10 less future combat systems? Quite a few, because the tradeoff there is enormous.
MCINTYRE (on camera): The Pentagon's scoffed when went then White House chief economic adviser Larry Lindsey predicted before the war it might cost between $100 and $200 billion. It doesn't seem so farfetched now that mission accomplished has become mission expensive. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
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BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, only 60 days until sovereignty returns to Iraq. Are the Iraqis ready? Are they worried? A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
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BROWN: To turn from the past to the future, when the subject of Iraqi sovereignty is concerned, only two of the journalist's most fundamental questions, who, what, when, where and why, have answers at this point. We know the why and we know the when, two months from now on the 30th of June. All the rest, the who, the what, the where in some respects still confusing, and not just to us. From Iraq, here's CNN's Jane Arraf.
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JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Dana Muhammad (ph) is shopping for her graduation ceremony. She's in law school, but she can't imagine what will happen with the government or the constitution after June 30. She says every Iraqi fears the violence that might be unleashed on the handover.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We used to have one president, one government, one party. Now everyone wants to express themselves and everyone feels that they were deprived and they want everything for themselves.
ARRAF: The shop owner, Mufua Ali (ph), says he doesn't think very much will change. His shop is packed with customers buying the goods he imports from Turkey. But with the danger of traveling in Iraq these days, every time we goes on a buying trip, he takes his life in his hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They attack the Americans on the road. Or there's an explosion on the road. Or there's a checkpoint and we are stuck for hours waiting, getting searched, not knowing what's going to happen.
ARRAF (on camera): This is one of the main middle-class shopping areas in Baghdad. Compared with after the war, things are almost back to normal. But almost everyone we speak with here says they're worried about what going to happen after June 30. (voice-over): The area is called Mansour. It's been spared a lot of the violence of other neighborhoods. Every evening, it is crowded with shoppers. They walk by this Abu Muhammad (ph), who came from Kurdistan in the '70s and has been reciting the Koran here as long as anyone can remember. In most shops, though, the televisions are firmly tuned to more secular things, previously banned satellite TV. In case, it's a call- in music request show. Maja Fayez (ph) and Abdul Rahman Oshef (ph) say even their 2-year-old child worries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Imagine this child hears about Fallujah, and when I come home, she says, the American planes attacked Fallujah.
ARRAF: Nothing will change on June 30, says Abdul Rahman (ph). One piece of the chess board will move and another piece will take its place. In this Baghdad neighborhood, Iraqis unable to imagine the future two months away can only live for the present.
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ARRAF: And here in Najaf, people have essentially the same concerns. When we asked them what they want, democracy runs a distant second to security. They're afraid now.They want to be able to go to schools. They want to be able to go shopping. They want to be able to wake up in the morning without the fear of rocket-propelled grenades on their way to work, of mortar attacks and armed thugs in the street. They don't have it now. They're not sure whether they will have it in 60 days -- Aaron.
BROWN: Oh, there's so many things to ask. Just an observation. It was nice in the piece just to see kind of normal life in the streets of Baghdad or at least in parts of Baghdad. We don't get to see that often. Do they -- do you believe that Iraqis will accept as legitimate the interim government that will be some combination of the voices of the U.N. and the Americans?
ARRAF: I think what they will think is that it's got to be better than this. And this refers to U.S.-appointed Governing Council. When you look at these polls coming out -- and polls in Iraq are an amazing concept to begin with -- they don't trust any of these people. They believe they've been installed by the U.S. They've come from outside. And they don't believe they're acting in their interests. Presumably, if we have a bigger caretaker government, more representative, they will have a little bit more faith in it. But people are very, very skeptical -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. Be safe out there. We'll talk to you next week. Thank you, Jane Arraf.To talk some more about the future of Iraq, what may happen, what should happen, what shouldn't happen, there's lots of combinations here, we're joined in Philadelphia tonight by Trudy Rubin, who is a foreign affairs, respected columnist for "The Philadelphia Inquirer." In Washington tonight, Christopher Preble,, the director of foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute, Mr. Preble, also a Gulf War veteran. We're also in Washington joined by Colonel Patrick Lang, the former head of Mideast intelligence for the Defense Department.And we are pleased to see you all. I guess, Colonel, let me start with you, because your basic argument I think is, while we're there, we have got to finish it off. What does finish it off mean to you?
RETIRED COL. PATRICK LANG, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the solution here has to be political. To say that, it sounds rather trite and silly. But the problem I think is that we have so many basic misunderstandings of Iraq, a lot of which are expressed by the label you've been running underneath your thing, which is a sovereign nation. In fact, Iraq I think can be said to be a sovereign state. But to say there's an Iraqi nation, that is a people united by tradition, language, religion and custom, I think is pushing it pretty far, because this state has been held together with a lot of coercion for a long time, ever since its creation by the British after World War I. And we have now disrupted that social order. In fact, one of the very few national institutions that existed, the Iraqi army, we did away quite early. So we eliminated some of the glue. And the problem is, when we say we're going to stop aligning things along the basis of the interests of the various disparate groups, then you get down to the idea of doing one man, one vote. And the problem with that is, that, in the Middle East, with very few exceptions, people do not normally vote for people outside their own ethno-religious community. And so, if you do a one man, one vote thing strictly, you end up with the largest group dominating on the basis of counting noses. And I think that's a large part of the reason why the Sunnis are fighting us in the middle of the country.
BROWN: And let me get everybody else in. Then we'll come back to some of those ideas. Trudy, you've grown increasingly skeptical about it all.
TRUDY RUBIN, "PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER": Yes, but I don't think the game is totally over. But what I think is the key here is that Iraqis have to believe they have some interest in the process. Sovereignty is being turned over on 6/30, I mean June 30, but nobody knows if that is going to make the least bit of difference. It is not clear yet who it's turned over to, although the special U.N. envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, whom President Bush has turned to in desperation, although the president doesn't say that, has a formula. But the question is, will the formula enable Iraqis for the first time to identify with a government, even if it's a caretaker, as they didn't identify with the Governing Council?
(CROSSTALK)
RUBIN: And let me just say that, when I was last in Iraq in November, people didn't identify with the council because its members barely came out of the security bubble in Saddam's palace. They didn't go out to the boonies and talk to people. There was a lot of corruption going on between Governing Council members and the ministers that each of them got to name. So people had no respect for or interest in the council. And the question is now whether they will have that interest and identify with a new prime minister, a new president and his two deputies.
BROWN: We'll come back to that. Mr. Preble, let me get to you here, because your position is pretty clear, as I get it, which is, we got to get out of there.
CHRISTOPHER PREBLE, THE CATO INSTITUTE: Well, my position is clear because I think the list of options that are available to us is particularly unpalatable.And, unfortunately, we're forced to choose from one of these less than optimal choices. I am also focused on the question of sovereignty. And already, the Bush administration is calling it partial sovereignty. And the partial part is that security will still be in the hands of the U.S. government for the foreseeable future. In fact, General Myers suggested that we would be there for decades. And this is what exactly has worried me from the very start.
BROWN: You have argued let's set a date and let's get out.
PREBLE: Right. BROWN: And let me argue back that what you are left with then is a society that will almost certainly end up in civil war.
PREBLE: I think that a civil war is a possibility. And that would be a great tragedy, but it is only one of several possibilities. We have seen that, with the U.S. military there, the animosity and resentment towards the occupation continues to grow. And I see no reason to believe that to change in the near future. So, for me, the important part is to communicate to the Iraqi people that you are going to have political sovereignty and you are also going to have responsibility for your own security. That's the most important message. And I think it's the message we need to start communicating to them immediately after the turnover of sovereignty on the 30th of June.
BROWN: Let me go back to the colonel for a second. Colonel, do you believe that, at least in some interim period, however long that lasts, what we need there now are more troops, not fewer troops?
LANG: It's been an error, I think , from the very beginning to have thought that this country, a country this size with this many problems could be occupied with so few soldiers, not so much because they have to fight, but because I think you need to have a presence everywhere, so that you can sort of put the quietus on things before they become really serious. So, in the interim, yes, I think we need to have more troops. There is a limit to how many we can do. But the long-range business is really that we have to broker a kind of government which reconciles the interests of the various traditional and existing groups in the country, so that they can find a way to live together. Before we do that, I don't see how we can leave. We broke the crockery here. We have to stick around to sweep it up.
BROWN: Trudy, last word, 20 seconds. Do you believe this can still end well for the administration, for the Americans?
RUBIN: I think only if two things happen. One, I do think Iraqi security forces have been trained to protect Iraqis. We have not done that. We didn't even want to do it in the beginning. There's a lot of misconception about that. Secondly, Iraqis have to be brought into the process in a meaningful way. That means either a president or a prime minister has to be somebody people can identify with who can go to them and tell them why they should wait until elections before giving up. Also, Lakhdar Brahimi is having a big conference in July. That may bring in different strands who can at least talk and debate with each other and engage the public in the process.
BROWN: All of you, in some combination or another, are welcome back to kind of continue along the conversation between now and the 30th of June. Thank you very much. RUBIN: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Still ahead on the program, the 39th Brigade left Arkansas for Iraq just a few weeks ago. Already, it grieves. Their story next on NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There are all sorts of ways to tell war stories. And Iraq stories are no different. You can talk of battles and weapons system, of costs in dollars, of political changes and more, and, at various times, we do. Then there's this sort of story, the story of one National Guard unit in this case from Arkansas and the war they went off to fight and how the war changed them, as wars change everyone. The story is reported by CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was a sense of honor and pride when the soldiers of Arkansas's 39th Infantry Brigade shipped out for Iraq in March. It's the first time the entire brigade has been called into active duty. For many soldiers, like Sergeant 1st Class William Labadie, this was the mission of a lifetime.
SGT. 1ST CLASS WILLIAM LABADIE, U.S. ARMY: I'm pumped. I came out of retirement to do this.
LAVANDERA: But that excitement has quickly dulled. Days after arriving in Iraq, Labadie was killed in combat. And in six weeks since then, six others from this brigade have also been killed.
STAFF SGT. DERRICK SMITH, 39TH SUPPORT BATTALION: It hurts. It just feels like it just rips your guts out, you know. That's how bad it hurts. Because of my son's illness, sir.
LAVANDERA: Derrick Smith is a supply sergeant in his unit, but he never made it to Iraq. He was sent back to Arkansas earlier this month on emergency leave because his son is suffering from a rare blood disease. He can't stand the thought of being so far away from the comrades when he knows they're hurting.
SMITH: It's just a sad place to be right now. And I can imagine in the minds of the soldiers, you know, hey, I want to get out of here.
LAVANDERA: Four of the soldiers killed were from Smith's unit. They died in a mortar attack on an Army compound last Saturday. One of the victims was Chief Warrant Officer Patrick Kordsmeier. His son and daughter are confident that the soldiers left behind will persevere.
JASON KORDSMEIER, SON OF KILLED SOLDIER: They're devastated. And so are we. And we're just pulling for them so much. I just wish -- I just want them to know that we're praying for them.
LAVANDERA: Jason Kordsmeier and Jennifer Legate say their father never complained about anything, so they knew life in Iraq must have been tough when he wrote home about how much he hated being there. Yet he would have expected his soldiers to carry on.
JENNIFER LEGATE, DAUGHTER OF KILLED SOLDIER: My dad wouldn't want them to stop what they're doing by any means. And so you just have to do what -- the soldiers that were lost, you have to do what they would want you to do.
LAVANDERA: With the 39th Infantry still facing another 11 months in Iraq, retired Soldier Virgil Miller has some words of encouragement for buddies in the old unit.
VIRGIL MILLER, RETIRED ARMY SOLDIER: Tough times don't last. Tough people do. And we're tough. We know we are going to have some hard knocks. But life is like that. And we're going to make it.
LAVANDERA: Four of the seven soldiers from the 39th Infantry Brigade who have been killed in action come from the National Guard post in Hazen, Arkansas. This small town hasn't seen one of their own die in combat since World War II. More than half a century later, the time has come again to etch the names of patriots into the stone of immortally. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Little Rock, Arkansas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country. And it's Friday, so we'll throw in a tabloid or two. But I -- it's a little oogy (ph), if you know what. And the staff does."Miami Herald," speaking of sorrow. We've had plenty. "Pilot Dies During Air Show Stunt" is the lead. We at CNN actually interviewed this guy who died a couple of days ago. And we'll put something on the air on this tomorrow. But it's pretty sad. "Bush Condemns Abuse of Prisoners" is how they lead the Iraq story, which I think is the right leader. It's how I would lead it if I were running the newspaper.
"The Dallas Morning News" leads local. "Stadium Cost Stuns County. Cowboys Request $425 Million, and Soon." Yes, because the Cowboys aren't making enough money, right? They need a little public help. It's one of my things. I'm sorry. Down at the corner here, "Tapes Show LBJ Fretting Over War. Some See Vietnam-Iraq Parallels in Release of 1966 Conversation." I always find these presidential tapes fascinating. Just down to a minute. Got to move quickly here. I'll leave that one alone.
"The Chattanooga Times Free Press" leads Iraq differently. They stay away from the prisoner story. "Bush Defends Mission in Iraq" is their lead. Also, "Targeting Doctors' Writing." Who can read it, anyway?
"The Chicago Sun-Times" leads with prisoners. "Image of Prisoner Abuse Disgusts Bush." And they put a big picture on the paper. Here are the tabloids. How much time do I got? Thirty seconds.
"The Weekly World News." I didn't know this until tonight. "Pope Wants Mel Gibson As Successor." I guess that could happen. And also on the front page, "Elvis Painting Cries Real Tears" "And Dozens More" -- oh, "Dozen More Hot Stories Inside." Wait, I have got to get to the back one quickly. "Kim Il Jong" -- "Kim Jong Il," actually -- I got that right -- "Bans Laughter." I love this line. "North Koreans face a sad future." Trust me, it's a sad future whether they are allowed to laugh there or not. Is your cat a CIA secret agent, by the way? I wondered that, too. We'll wrap up the day and the week, thankfully, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: All the good tabloid stuff, I can't read to you. I'm sorry. But I'll give you this one really quickly. "Cursed Tunnel of Love. Sweethearts Who Ride Through It Come Out Hating Each other." Be careful if you go to the fair over the weekend.Have a wonderful weekend. It's been a week, hasn't it?We'll see you all Monday. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Aired April 30, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.The end of a long week in a long year. Virtually the entire program tonight looks at Iraq in the year since the president's announcement on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln that major combat was over.The president also said that night that there was still tough work ahead but clearly neither he nor the Pentagon anticipated how tough the work ahead would be. The fact that it is tougher to do does not argue that it should not be done. That is not an argument for us to make one way or the other.Tonight, we'll offer several points of view on that question. For now it is enough to say the road looks a lot longer than it did a year ago that the powerful image the White House staff created on the deck of the Lincoln has been overshadowed by even more powerful and troubling images from Iraq itself.And that is where the whip begins, the photographs being broadcast around the world tonight showing U.S. soldiers mistreating, humiliating Iraqi prisoners. They are powerful stuff, David Ensor at the Pentagon, David the headline.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, at the Pentagon they are saying that these photos could hardly have come at a worse time. There are apologies from the president on down. It's damage control time -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you. We'll get to you quickly tonight.In Iraq, just 60 days to go until power changes hands, still plenty of unknowns. What are Iraqis expecting? From Baghdad, Jane Arraf with the headline -- Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: In a word, Aaron, chaos. Iraqis, despite the fall of Saddam still get a lot of their information from rumor and with so much happening every day no one really knows what will happen 60 days from now.
BROWN: Jane, thank you in Najaf.And, in California, the Michael Jackson case begins again. Frank Buckley at the courthouse today, Frank a headline.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, it was Michael Jackson's second court appearance in his case. He was arraigned on a ten-count indictment from a grand jury. The pop star came to the courthouse with a new lawyer and both of them spoke out.
BROWN: Frank, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.Also on the program on this Friday night, one year after the president declared major combat over in Iraq we look at the progress made and the setbacks that continue.Plus, one National Guard unit's story, been there just six weeks, already seven soldiers lost.And later, thankfully, the lighter side of NEWSNIGHT, morning papers and, this being Friday, a tabloid thrown in or two, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin in Iraq on the last day of the deadliest month yet. Two more Marines were killed today near Fallujah bringing the total number of American dead to 738. More than any other city, Fallujah has become the symbol of Iraqi resistance to the occupation.Today, a significant change in tact. U.S. military officials say Marines who have been battling insurgents in that city will now pull back. The plan is to turn over patrols to Iraqi security troops. How these troops will perform is anyone's guess tonight. For the Marines, a day of mixed feelings.Here's CNN's Karl Penhaul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Marines play a game of spades in the sitting room of an Iraqi home they've occupied as a base. They may not be here much longer. Their generals have ordered them to end the siege in Fallujah and retreat from the city limits after a month of close quarters urban combat with anti-coalition insurgents. Young Marines seem disappointed.
CPL. CHRISTOPHER RODRIGUEZ, U.S. MARINE CORPS: We've been here for a while. We don't want to lose the ground that we fought so hard for and that we've been here, you know, sweat and blood for the last, you know, month, month and a half and now we have to, you know, give it up.PENHAUL: For the company senior medic, the pullout has an upside.
JASON DUTY, U.S. NAVY CORPSMAN: Myself, I'm kind of relieved that we're a little -- pulling back a little bit just because it will give some of the Marines time to recuperate, rest. They're not getting shot at every day like they are here. They'll be back in the fighting holes and frankly when we're back there we're not going to be taking anywhere near the casualties that we've been taking here.
PENHAUL: This Marine keeps watch from his machine gun nest but today is Muslim Friday prayers and gunfire has been sporadic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Misfire, misfire, misfire.
PENHAUL: This rocket team tries to keep sharp with another drill. They were in action against insurgents Sunday down on this street Marines have dubbed sniper alley. Another Marine peers through his lookout over to the scene of Monday's gun battle with insurgents across the graveyard in those houses. One Marine was killed and at least nine others wounded there. Some of those men were under the command of veteran Marine First Sergeant William Skiles. He doesn't see the planned pullout at the end of the fight for Fallujah.
1ST SGT. WILLIAM SKILES, U.S. MARINE CORPS: If they want to pull us out and gives us more space to work with, let's go somewhere else. If they want to come at us, pick a fight, bring it on. We'll fight them over there too. Wherever we go we're going to fight them and we're going to win.PENHAUL (on camera): Marine commanders haven't publicized the time table for pulling troops out and handing control of Fallujah to Iraqi soldiers under the command of a general who served under Saddam Hussein and there's been no official reaction from the insurgents to news of the pullout but they could hail this as their biggest victory yet against the coalition.Karl Penhaul reporting with the camera of John Templeton for U.S. networks pool, Fallujah, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: In the other major flashpoint city in Najaf, a similar security plan is being explored even as the U.S. military continues to deploy more troops there. The plan under consideration would allow the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps to control the city, which was seized earlier this month by the rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Today Mr. al-Sadr was vowing not to back down.Wars in this day and age always have, it seems, a media dimension to them. We show too much. We show too little. We are undermining the effort. We are puppets of the government. We get them all every single day.The media story tonight involves ABC News "Nightline," perhaps the most respected news broadcast in the country. "Nightline's" decision to air a program that is a simple reading of the names of those who have died in Iraq will air tonight around the country.Seven ABC affiliates owned by Sinclair Broadcasting will not run those programs. Sinclair owns the stations. They get to decide what to run but that decision has created a real storm and one very angry letter.Here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Killed in Iraq in February, Army Lieutenant Seth Dvorin's death made the local news. Still, his mother says, hearing his name on "Nightline" is important for her and the country.
SUE NIEDERER, SON DIED IN IRAQ: This is the facing of a reality. These are the people who have been killed for this war. You are now taking the blinders off of people and reading names.
HINOJOSA: Sinclair Broadcast whose CEO donated thousands of dollars to the Bush reelection campaign defended its decision to pull the program saying: "Despite the denials by a spokeswoman for Nightline, the action appears to be motivated by a political agenda designed to undermine the efforts of the United States in Iraq."On conservative talk radio, "Nightline's" motives were challenged.
NEAL BOOERTZ, RADIO COMMENTATOR: Is the motivation to honor the men and women who died or is the motivation to sway Americans against the war in Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely to sway Americans against the war.
HINOJOSA: Ted Koppel denies that.TED KOPPEL, "NIGHTLINE": It is not unreasonable to remind everyone of who these young people are and what they look like.
HINOJOSA: At Sinclair's Ohio station, people protested a decision not to run the program but perhaps the angriest dissent came in a letter to Sinclair's CEO, the writer former POW John McCain, which read in part:"Your decision to deny your viewers an opportunity to be reminded of war's terrible costs, in all their heartbreaking detail, is a gross disservice to the public and to the men and women of the United States armed forces. It is, in short, sir, unpatriotic."(on camera): Even if "Nightline" didn't intend it, the program now has become political. A Democratic Senator is asking the SEC to investigate whether Sinclair's decision not to air "Nightline" is "political censorship at the national level."Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We have much more on Iraq tonight, including the stories of the humiliation and mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners. A couple of other items first, both court cases, one resolved more or less, the other just beginning. The resolved one first, the case of one time NBA star Jayson Williams on trial in the shooting death of his driver after a night of drinking in his New Jersey home.Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jayson Williams walked out of court met by cheering supporters. The former basketball star found not guilty on three of the four shooting charges, his lawyers calling the verdict fair.
BILLY MARTIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jayson and Tanya are very happy. The entire trial team are very pleased and we're glad that they are going home.
FEYERICK: Williams was found guilty on all four cover-up charges, including evidence and witness tampering but on the charge of reckless manslaughter...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No decision was reached.
FEYERICK: The jury was split, 8-4 in favor of acquittal.
SHALISHA HEART, JUROR: The four believed that he was playing around with Gus and that he was playing around with him, picked the gun up and actually pulled the trigger whereas we felt as though it was an accident.
FEYERICK: The judge declared a mistrial on the reckless manslaughter charge. Prosecutors now figuring out whether to try Williams again.
STEVEN LEMBER, PROSECUTOR: We're, of course, disappointed that the jury was unable to return a verdict of guilty on counts 1, 3 and 4 and count 2 is still out there.
FEYERICK (on camera): Defense lawyers will be back in court in three weeks. That's when prosecutors will decide what they plan to do about the reckless manslaughter charge. No sentencing date will be set until then. Williams' prison term now ranging from probation to 13 years.Deborah Feyerick CNN, Somerville, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So, one long-running case over, as we say, another about to begin. That's what an arraignment is, the very beginning.Frank Buckley now on the case of Michael Jackson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY (voice-over): Michael Jackson's arrival at the courthouse again, like a Hollywood premier, and this time Jackson spoke to journalists.
MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the earth.
BUCKLEY: Inside, though, Jackson appeared perturbed by the presence of a pool camera. There were no cameras in the courtroom as Judge Rodney Melville announced a ten-count indictment against the singer.The charges, four counts of alleged lewd acts upon a child; one attempted lewd act; four counts of administering an intoxicating agent, alcohol; and conspiracy with others to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion.Jackson's new attorney, Thomas Mesereau, entered a plea of not guilty on all charges on Jackson's behalf.
THOMAS MESEREAU, JACKSON'S ATTORNEY: It's about the dignity, the integrity, the decency, the honor, the charity, the innocence and the complete vindication of a wonderful human being named Michael Jackson.
BUCKLEY (on camera): Jackson also released a written statement saying, in his words, he is completely innocent of these false charges.Frank Buckley CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Back to Iraq next. Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, outrage and apologies as photographs of U.S. soldiers mistreating Iraqi prisoners are shown around the world.Plus, at the end of a long 12 months, a long, hard look at Iraq in all its shades of gray.Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Around the world today, one story out of Iraq dominated the news. It wasn't a battle waged or won. It was something quite different pictures of American soldiers mistreating, humiliating Iraqi prisoners. CBS News first ran the photographs Wednesday night on "60 Minutes II." The abuse they show took place in the very prison infamous for torture during the regime of Saddam Hussein. The military says six American soldiers have been charged so far and could be court martialed. Others far higher in the chain of command will likely be disciplined. The fallout could be immense.We begin with CNN's National Security Correspondent David Ensor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): Pentagon officials said the photos could hardly come at a worse time. From the president on down American officials are angry and apologetic.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so, I didn't like it one bit.
ENSOR: The humiliation of the prisoners in the photos was especially embarrassing for a president who has repeatedly expressed pride in having closed Saddam Hussein's torture chambers and rape rooms.
BUSH: There will be an investigation and I think they'll be taken care of.
ENSOR: At the Pentagon, one senior official spoke of the danger the photos could incite Iraqis against American soldiers generally saying: "I don't want to suggest that this could cost American lives, but it certainly is hideous."
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: Those soldiers wear the same uniforms as 150,000 other soldiers that are operating proudly and properly here in Iraq and those soldiers let us down. They simply let us down.
ENSOR (on camera): And these may not be the only cases of abuse. U.S. intelligence officials say that the CIA inspector general is cooperating with Defense Department officials looking into some other possible cases, including one where a prisoner at Abu Ghurayb Prison died. A CIA spokesman said: "We do not support or condone abusing prisoners."David Ensor, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We wondered, as we often do, how Arab media would play the story and the answer is about the same as media here and around the world. In this case, it seems, there is but one version.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): This is a story the whole world took in and Arab media played it no differently than most. The pictures are, after all, what they are.First, Al Arabiya, the Saudi-based network, the anchor saying that the United Nations as well as the British and the Australians all condemn the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of their American captors.Al-Jazeera's anchors repeatedly used the words torture and humiliation, neither out of place given the pictures. The anchor called the prisoners' treatment inhumane and unethical and went on to describe in graphic detail what in conservative Arab society is especially shocking.The anchor says that what's happening here is wiring a prisoner with electrical wires and taking photographs. In here, they're gesturing with their hands making the sign of victory and smiling. And here, they're asking the prisoners to disrobe and pose in humiliating positions.On the streets of Baghdad, the reaction to the pictures was swift and not surprisingly critical. This man says that they reject this as Iraqis and as a matter of simple human rights. He says if you have a prisoner, investigate him in a proper way. Otherwise, what used to happen in the past will be repeated.Other Iraqis went beyond the infractions of a few to a wholesale condemnation of the many. This man says, "are these crimes only in Baghdad? What about Guantanamo? What about state terrorism in Fallujah and Najaf?" Finally he said simply "state terrorism is state terrorism."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So, indignation in Iraq, indignation in this country over what some American soldiers are said to have done and now indignation in England as well over the behavior of British troops.The front page of tomorrow's "Daily Mirror" shows a photo of an Iraqi detainee apparently being urinated upon. There are other pictures as well equally shocking in different ways. We've yet to be able to confirm the authenticity of the photos, neither has the British government but, clearly, the government is treating them as the real thing and we have no reason tonight to believe otherwise.In a press conference today, the British chief of the general staff, Sir Michael Jackson has this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. SIR MICHAEL JACKSON, BRITISH CHIEF OF GENERAL STAFF: The allegations are already under investigation. Again, if proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the Queen's uniform. They have besmirched the good name of the Army and its honor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Michael Jackson of the British Army.Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, one year after President Bush declared major combat over another 600 American soldiers are dead. How we got from there to here and what comes next.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The war in Iraq began on Thursday, the 20th of March, 2003 in Iraq. Thirty-two days later on Thursday, the 1st of May, a year ago tomorrow, the president declared that major combat operations were over. The fighting, however, wasn't over. It still isn't.The picture of Iraq a year later is neither black nor white. It is shades of gray, of successes and there are many improvements in Iraqi life, and failures and they too are considerable.Bad news, we often say, tends to push aside the good and Iraq is no different. That said, Iraq a year later has produced far more bad news than anyone imagined.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): That one picture a year ago was indelible, "mission accomplished" the banner announce and though the president said there were still troubling days ahead, he announced the end of major combat but, in Iraq, on that day the dying continued.
BATHSEBA CROCKER, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: It was predictable that there was violence and we didn't prepare for that violence and we didn't adequately plan for it.BROWN: Private First Class Jesse Gibbons (ph), stationed at Fort Carson, Colorado, was the first to die after the declaration. He died on May 1, 2003 when his M1 Abrams tank fell into the Euphrates River. He was 34 from Springfield, Missouri. Since then there have been about 600 American deaths in Iraq compared to the 139 who died during the march to Baghdad itself.
CROCKER: There's been a vacuum on the political front and a vacuum on the security front essentially since we entered Iraq last spring and we haven't been successful in filling that vacuum with anything and I think in a vacuum it's very easy for extremists and radicals or whatever you want to call it to take hold.
BROWN: There were plans, of course, plans that included significant roles for men like these, the Iraqi Police and men like these the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, the Iraqi National Guard.The overall American military Commander General John Abizaid says the areas that were considered the safest got the Iraqi forces first.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: And so you'll see in the south and in the north, for example, that the security institutions are fairly mature and fairly capable and, in the center and in the west it's still a long way to go.
BROWN: But what the American military didn't count on was how difficult it would be to find solid, moderate, Iraqi leadership.
ABIZAID: We've also made a few mistakes along the way where we've empowered people that weren't reliable, that weren't capable and that weren't good leaders and we had to remove them.
BROWN: And while the bureaucratic battle has been waged, real battles, real combat was taking place almost every day and often it seemed especially senseless.Last July 26, for instance, three American soldiers died while they were guarding a children's hospital in Baghdad. Someone through a grenade, reinforcing the perception that no place in that city was safe.
CROCKER: I don't tend to be that optimistic at the moment about what's going to turn out in Iraq largely because I think those who have tried to be optimistic so far about the way things are going have not proven to be right yet.
BROWN: But in the capital itself, and this is important to note too, life has gotten better in the past year in many ways. Things work again. There is water. Electricity is back to prewar levels or better, which still means it's off for a few hours every day. There is commerce. Businesses are open and they stay open later and, for the most part, there is a free flow of information.
ABIZAID: Huge numbers of newspapers on the streets. Everywhere you look there's a satellite dish that's bringing in information from all over the world. People are discussing politics in ways that have never before been possible and the security forces aren't knocking at their door in the middle of the night executing people.
BROWN: But the drumbeat of daily violence has not let up. Last November, 16 American soldiers killed when their helicopter was shot down by a missile. And this month, April, especially cruel. As many American soldiers killed in 30 days as died in the invasion of Iraq in the first place, a very long road since Private First Class Jesse Gibbons died on May 1, 2003 at the end of major combat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: There is something unseemly I suppose about following a story so heavy on death with a story so heavy on the costs in dollars of this war but that too is part of the story.April, more than any other month in the year since the speech on the Lincoln, has changed the economics of the war in Iraq. The plan to draw down troop levels has been replaced by a plan to increase them driving the costs of the war even higher.From the Pentagon, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Last April's rosy hopes for a quick, cheap victory have gone up in the smoke of this April's raging combat. All the unexpected wear and tear on military hardware, downed aircraft, burned out vehicles, plus the unanticipated cost of maintaining higher force levels in Iraq is rapidly inflating the war's price tag.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Obviously there are additional costs because we didn't budget for the war, so we all know that eventually there's a bill to be paid.
MCINTYRE: At the Pentagon they have a name for it, the burn rate, how fast the war is consuming money. It was about $4 billion a month. Now it's closer to $5 billion. Among the extra costs, $700 million to keep 20,000 extra troops in Iraq for three months and $400 million to rush armored Humvees to the battlefield.Administration critics in Congress accuse the Pentagon of low- balling the war's true cost by waiting to ask for more money until after the presidential election and leaving billions of dollars in current needs unfunded.
REP. CURT WELDON (R), PENNSYLVANIA: I think the budget request that's been provided to us is short sighted and in the case of the Army I think it's outrageous.
MCINTYRE: Weldon says the Army needs $6 billion more now, including $705 million for even more armored Humvees, $295 million for more body armor, $315 million for munitions, and $114 million for unmanned aerial vehicles. Some in Congress, like Arizona Senator John McCain, say the best way to get the money is to ax some big-ticket pet projects, such as the Air Force's FA-22, which at $258 million a plane, is the world's most expensive fighter aircraft. Killing the $37 billion program would buy a lot of necessities.
THOMAS BARNETT, AUTHOR, "THE PENTAGON'S NEW MAP": How many of those amazingly cheap armored Humvees can I buy if I buy 10 less future combat systems? Quite a few, because the tradeoff there is enormous.
MCINTYRE (on camera): The Pentagon's scoffed when went then White House chief economic adviser Larry Lindsey predicted before the war it might cost between $100 and $200 billion. It doesn't seem so farfetched now that mission accomplished has become mission expensive. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, only 60 days until sovereignty returns to Iraq. Are the Iraqis ready? Are they worried? A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
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BROWN: To turn from the past to the future, when the subject of Iraqi sovereignty is concerned, only two of the journalist's most fundamental questions, who, what, when, where and why, have answers at this point. We know the why and we know the when, two months from now on the 30th of June. All the rest, the who, the what, the where in some respects still confusing, and not just to us. From Iraq, here's CNN's Jane Arraf.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Dana Muhammad (ph) is shopping for her graduation ceremony. She's in law school, but she can't imagine what will happen with the government or the constitution after June 30. She says every Iraqi fears the violence that might be unleashed on the handover.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We used to have one president, one government, one party. Now everyone wants to express themselves and everyone feels that they were deprived and they want everything for themselves.
ARRAF: The shop owner, Mufua Ali (ph), says he doesn't think very much will change. His shop is packed with customers buying the goods he imports from Turkey. But with the danger of traveling in Iraq these days, every time we goes on a buying trip, he takes his life in his hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They attack the Americans on the road. Or there's an explosion on the road. Or there's a checkpoint and we are stuck for hours waiting, getting searched, not knowing what's going to happen.
ARRAF (on camera): This is one of the main middle-class shopping areas in Baghdad. Compared with after the war, things are almost back to normal. But almost everyone we speak with here says they're worried about what going to happen after June 30. (voice-over): The area is called Mansour. It's been spared a lot of the violence of other neighborhoods. Every evening, it is crowded with shoppers. They walk by this Abu Muhammad (ph), who came from Kurdistan in the '70s and has been reciting the Koran here as long as anyone can remember. In most shops, though, the televisions are firmly tuned to more secular things, previously banned satellite TV. In case, it's a call- in music request show. Maja Fayez (ph) and Abdul Rahman Oshef (ph) say even their 2-year-old child worries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Imagine this child hears about Fallujah, and when I come home, she says, the American planes attacked Fallujah.
ARRAF: Nothing will change on June 30, says Abdul Rahman (ph). One piece of the chess board will move and another piece will take its place. In this Baghdad neighborhood, Iraqis unable to imagine the future two months away can only live for the present.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF: And here in Najaf, people have essentially the same concerns. When we asked them what they want, democracy runs a distant second to security. They're afraid now.They want to be able to go to schools. They want to be able to go shopping. They want to be able to wake up in the morning without the fear of rocket-propelled grenades on their way to work, of mortar attacks and armed thugs in the street. They don't have it now. They're not sure whether they will have it in 60 days -- Aaron.
BROWN: Oh, there's so many things to ask. Just an observation. It was nice in the piece just to see kind of normal life in the streets of Baghdad or at least in parts of Baghdad. We don't get to see that often. Do they -- do you believe that Iraqis will accept as legitimate the interim government that will be some combination of the voices of the U.N. and the Americans?
ARRAF: I think what they will think is that it's got to be better than this. And this refers to U.S.-appointed Governing Council. When you look at these polls coming out -- and polls in Iraq are an amazing concept to begin with -- they don't trust any of these people. They believe they've been installed by the U.S. They've come from outside. And they don't believe they're acting in their interests. Presumably, if we have a bigger caretaker government, more representative, they will have a little bit more faith in it. But people are very, very skeptical -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. Be safe out there. We'll talk to you next week. Thank you, Jane Arraf.To talk some more about the future of Iraq, what may happen, what should happen, what shouldn't happen, there's lots of combinations here, we're joined in Philadelphia tonight by Trudy Rubin, who is a foreign affairs, respected columnist for "The Philadelphia Inquirer." In Washington tonight, Christopher Preble,, the director of foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute, Mr. Preble, also a Gulf War veteran. We're also in Washington joined by Colonel Patrick Lang, the former head of Mideast intelligence for the Defense Department.And we are pleased to see you all. I guess, Colonel, let me start with you, because your basic argument I think is, while we're there, we have got to finish it off. What does finish it off mean to you?
RETIRED COL. PATRICK LANG, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the solution here has to be political. To say that, it sounds rather trite and silly. But the problem I think is that we have so many basic misunderstandings of Iraq, a lot of which are expressed by the label you've been running underneath your thing, which is a sovereign nation. In fact, Iraq I think can be said to be a sovereign state. But to say there's an Iraqi nation, that is a people united by tradition, language, religion and custom, I think is pushing it pretty far, because this state has been held together with a lot of coercion for a long time, ever since its creation by the British after World War I. And we have now disrupted that social order. In fact, one of the very few national institutions that existed, the Iraqi army, we did away quite early. So we eliminated some of the glue. And the problem is, when we say we're going to stop aligning things along the basis of the interests of the various disparate groups, then you get down to the idea of doing one man, one vote. And the problem with that is, that, in the Middle East, with very few exceptions, people do not normally vote for people outside their own ethno-religious community. And so, if you do a one man, one vote thing strictly, you end up with the largest group dominating on the basis of counting noses. And I think that's a large part of the reason why the Sunnis are fighting us in the middle of the country.
BROWN: And let me get everybody else in. Then we'll come back to some of those ideas. Trudy, you've grown increasingly skeptical about it all.
TRUDY RUBIN, "PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER": Yes, but I don't think the game is totally over. But what I think is the key here is that Iraqis have to believe they have some interest in the process. Sovereignty is being turned over on 6/30, I mean June 30, but nobody knows if that is going to make the least bit of difference. It is not clear yet who it's turned over to, although the special U.N. envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, whom President Bush has turned to in desperation, although the president doesn't say that, has a formula. But the question is, will the formula enable Iraqis for the first time to identify with a government, even if it's a caretaker, as they didn't identify with the Governing Council?
(CROSSTALK)
RUBIN: And let me just say that, when I was last in Iraq in November, people didn't identify with the council because its members barely came out of the security bubble in Saddam's palace. They didn't go out to the boonies and talk to people. There was a lot of corruption going on between Governing Council members and the ministers that each of them got to name. So people had no respect for or interest in the council. And the question is now whether they will have that interest and identify with a new prime minister, a new president and his two deputies.
BROWN: We'll come back to that. Mr. Preble, let me get to you here, because your position is pretty clear, as I get it, which is, we got to get out of there.
CHRISTOPHER PREBLE, THE CATO INSTITUTE: Well, my position is clear because I think the list of options that are available to us is particularly unpalatable.And, unfortunately, we're forced to choose from one of these less than optimal choices. I am also focused on the question of sovereignty. And already, the Bush administration is calling it partial sovereignty. And the partial part is that security will still be in the hands of the U.S. government for the foreseeable future. In fact, General Myers suggested that we would be there for decades. And this is what exactly has worried me from the very start.
BROWN: You have argued let's set a date and let's get out.
PREBLE: Right. BROWN: And let me argue back that what you are left with then is a society that will almost certainly end up in civil war.
PREBLE: I think that a civil war is a possibility. And that would be a great tragedy, but it is only one of several possibilities. We have seen that, with the U.S. military there, the animosity and resentment towards the occupation continues to grow. And I see no reason to believe that to change in the near future. So, for me, the important part is to communicate to the Iraqi people that you are going to have political sovereignty and you are also going to have responsibility for your own security. That's the most important message. And I think it's the message we need to start communicating to them immediately after the turnover of sovereignty on the 30th of June.
BROWN: Let me go back to the colonel for a second. Colonel, do you believe that, at least in some interim period, however long that lasts, what we need there now are more troops, not fewer troops?
LANG: It's been an error, I think , from the very beginning to have thought that this country, a country this size with this many problems could be occupied with so few soldiers, not so much because they have to fight, but because I think you need to have a presence everywhere, so that you can sort of put the quietus on things before they become really serious. So, in the interim, yes, I think we need to have more troops. There is a limit to how many we can do. But the long-range business is really that we have to broker a kind of government which reconciles the interests of the various traditional and existing groups in the country, so that they can find a way to live together. Before we do that, I don't see how we can leave. We broke the crockery here. We have to stick around to sweep it up.
BROWN: Trudy, last word, 20 seconds. Do you believe this can still end well for the administration, for the Americans?
RUBIN: I think only if two things happen. One, I do think Iraqi security forces have been trained to protect Iraqis. We have not done that. We didn't even want to do it in the beginning. There's a lot of misconception about that. Secondly, Iraqis have to be brought into the process in a meaningful way. That means either a president or a prime minister has to be somebody people can identify with who can go to them and tell them why they should wait until elections before giving up. Also, Lakhdar Brahimi is having a big conference in July. That may bring in different strands who can at least talk and debate with each other and engage the public in the process.
BROWN: All of you, in some combination or another, are welcome back to kind of continue along the conversation between now and the 30th of June. Thank you very much. RUBIN: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Still ahead on the program, the 39th Brigade left Arkansas for Iraq just a few weeks ago. Already, it grieves. Their story next on NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: There are all sorts of ways to tell war stories. And Iraq stories are no different. You can talk of battles and weapons system, of costs in dollars, of political changes and more, and, at various times, we do. Then there's this sort of story, the story of one National Guard unit in this case from Arkansas and the war they went off to fight and how the war changed them, as wars change everyone. The story is reported by CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was a sense of honor and pride when the soldiers of Arkansas's 39th Infantry Brigade shipped out for Iraq in March. It's the first time the entire brigade has been called into active duty. For many soldiers, like Sergeant 1st Class William Labadie, this was the mission of a lifetime.
SGT. 1ST CLASS WILLIAM LABADIE, U.S. ARMY: I'm pumped. I came out of retirement to do this.
LAVANDERA: But that excitement has quickly dulled. Days after arriving in Iraq, Labadie was killed in combat. And in six weeks since then, six others from this brigade have also been killed.
STAFF SGT. DERRICK SMITH, 39TH SUPPORT BATTALION: It hurts. It just feels like it just rips your guts out, you know. That's how bad it hurts. Because of my son's illness, sir.
LAVANDERA: Derrick Smith is a supply sergeant in his unit, but he never made it to Iraq. He was sent back to Arkansas earlier this month on emergency leave because his son is suffering from a rare blood disease. He can't stand the thought of being so far away from the comrades when he knows they're hurting.
SMITH: It's just a sad place to be right now. And I can imagine in the minds of the soldiers, you know, hey, I want to get out of here.
LAVANDERA: Four of the soldiers killed were from Smith's unit. They died in a mortar attack on an Army compound last Saturday. One of the victims was Chief Warrant Officer Patrick Kordsmeier. His son and daughter are confident that the soldiers left behind will persevere.
JASON KORDSMEIER, SON OF KILLED SOLDIER: They're devastated. And so are we. And we're just pulling for them so much. I just wish -- I just want them to know that we're praying for them.
LAVANDERA: Jason Kordsmeier and Jennifer Legate say their father never complained about anything, so they knew life in Iraq must have been tough when he wrote home about how much he hated being there. Yet he would have expected his soldiers to carry on.
JENNIFER LEGATE, DAUGHTER OF KILLED SOLDIER: My dad wouldn't want them to stop what they're doing by any means. And so you just have to do what -- the soldiers that were lost, you have to do what they would want you to do.
LAVANDERA: With the 39th Infantry still facing another 11 months in Iraq, retired Soldier Virgil Miller has some words of encouragement for buddies in the old unit.
VIRGIL MILLER, RETIRED ARMY SOLDIER: Tough times don't last. Tough people do. And we're tough. We know we are going to have some hard knocks. But life is like that. And we're going to make it.
LAVANDERA: Four of the seven soldiers from the 39th Infantry Brigade who have been killed in action come from the National Guard post in Hazen, Arkansas. This small town hasn't seen one of their own die in combat since World War II. More than half a century later, the time has come again to etch the names of patriots into the stone of immortally. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Little Rock, Arkansas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
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(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country. And it's Friday, so we'll throw in a tabloid or two. But I -- it's a little oogy (ph), if you know what. And the staff does."Miami Herald," speaking of sorrow. We've had plenty. "Pilot Dies During Air Show Stunt" is the lead. We at CNN actually interviewed this guy who died a couple of days ago. And we'll put something on the air on this tomorrow. But it's pretty sad. "Bush Condemns Abuse of Prisoners" is how they lead the Iraq story, which I think is the right leader. It's how I would lead it if I were running the newspaper.
"The Dallas Morning News" leads local. "Stadium Cost Stuns County. Cowboys Request $425 Million, and Soon." Yes, because the Cowboys aren't making enough money, right? They need a little public help. It's one of my things. I'm sorry. Down at the corner here, "Tapes Show LBJ Fretting Over War. Some See Vietnam-Iraq Parallels in Release of 1966 Conversation." I always find these presidential tapes fascinating. Just down to a minute. Got to move quickly here. I'll leave that one alone.
"The Chattanooga Times Free Press" leads Iraq differently. They stay away from the prisoner story. "Bush Defends Mission in Iraq" is their lead. Also, "Targeting Doctors' Writing." Who can read it, anyway?
"The Chicago Sun-Times" leads with prisoners. "Image of Prisoner Abuse Disgusts Bush." And they put a big picture on the paper. Here are the tabloids. How much time do I got? Thirty seconds.
"The Weekly World News." I didn't know this until tonight. "Pope Wants Mel Gibson As Successor." I guess that could happen. And also on the front page, "Elvis Painting Cries Real Tears" "And Dozens More" -- oh, "Dozen More Hot Stories Inside." Wait, I have got to get to the back one quickly. "Kim Il Jong" -- "Kim Jong Il," actually -- I got that right -- "Bans Laughter." I love this line. "North Koreans face a sad future." Trust me, it's a sad future whether they are allowed to laugh there or not. Is your cat a CIA secret agent, by the way? I wondered that, too. We'll wrap up the day and the week, thankfully, in a moment.
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BROWN: All the good tabloid stuff, I can't read to you. I'm sorry. But I'll give you this one really quickly. "Cursed Tunnel of Love. Sweethearts Who Ride Through It Come Out Hating Each other." Be careful if you go to the fair over the weekend.Have a wonderful weekend. It's been a week, hasn't it?We'll see you all Monday. Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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