Bush Tries to Quiet Halliburton Controversy; Environmentalists Accuse Administration of Hypocrisy; Should Morning-After Pill Be Available Without Prescription?
Aired December 12, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.Life it seems is full of contradictions large and small. Take Iraq. It has the second largest pool of oil in the Middle East and you can't buy a gallon of gas in Baghdad. Actually you can but not easily as we'll show you in a few minutes.But when you can it's a steal, four cents a gallon or so. The price of gas in a place that has a sea of oil is the focus of a couple of stories tonight and is the starting point for the whip.Jamie McIntyre first away from his normal digs at the Pentagon I see, Jamie a headline from you.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Bush today tried to quiet the controversy over Halliburton saying if the company had overcharged the U.S. government the money would have to be repaid. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld called it just a disagreement not really an overpayment but the president's critics knowing a winning issue when they see one are turning up the heat -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you.Next, to the White House CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, Suzanne a headline from you tonight.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, questions about conflict of interest. First of course it was Vice President Dick Cheney and Halliburton but now as the former Secretary of State James Baker the president's special envoy, Mr. Bush today saying he is standing by his men.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.Now to questions of what's in the air and what's in your food and what is the government doing about it, CNN's Kelly Wallace with that tonight, Kelly a headline from you.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, environmentalists accuse the administration of being hypocritical, on the one hand warning about mercury levels in tuna and then on the other hand not doing enough to stop mercury from being emitted into the air. The EPA says environmentalists have their facts wrong that this White House is doing more than has been done before.
BROWN: Kelly, thank you.Finally the debate over making a contraceptive pill available over the counter, CNN's Christy Feig is working that story for us, Christy a headline.
CHRISTY FEIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, getting the morning after pill could soon be as buying aspirin and it's igniting a contentious debate. We'll tell you why, Aaron.BROWN: Christy, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.Also coming up tonight so I've just now figured out how my cell phone works and now they're talking about phones through the Internet. We'll try to explain that in terms we can all understand.Segment 7 tonight the dying hobby of model railroading or is it really dying? It depends on which hobby store owner you ask.And we'll end the week with an encore from the rooster and his papers and we hear he's got a few special ones tonight, yes he does, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight with what the Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is calling a disagreement. Others less friendly to the administration are calling it a disgrace. A cynic might say it is simply business as usual. Whatever it is the question of whether a subsidiary of Halliburton overcharged the Pentagon $61 million for fuel remains topic A tonight for many reasons.We begin with CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): President Bush tackled the Halliburton flap head-on insisting the company formerly headed by his vice president would be held to the letter of the law.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If there's an overcharge like we think there is we expect that money to be repaid.
MCINTYRE: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld downplayed the findings of his own auditors even more insisting it wasn't really an overpayment for fuel imported into Iraq just a disagreement over charges by a Kuwaiti subcontractor.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There was no overpayment to any company and, in fact, there is a fairly normal process going on where they submit bills from their subcontractors and for their own. It gets discussed and debated. We've got auditors that crawl all over these things.
MCINTYRE: Halliburton's current president vigorously defended its transactions with the U.S. government and insisted the company was being criticized for doing a high risk, low profit thankless job.A statement said: "Halliburton has repeatedly tried to transfer the fuel delivery mission to a local supplier because it is dangerous for our people. So far, no one has been able to find a replacement for Halliburton."Congressional critics, including Democrats John Dingell and Henry Waxman, argued they not Pentagon auditors were the first to blow the whistle on the high price the U.S. was paying for Kuwaiti gas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The White House insists that the Pentagon investigation will answer any questions about whether there was impropriety on the part of Halliburton and if it turns out that the Kuwaiti subcontractor did overcharge Halliburton by $61 million the Pentagon points out that during the combat phase in Iraq the Kuwaiti government provided the U.S. $300 million worth of gasoline for free -- Aaron.
BROWN: That's an interesting defense. I'm not sure it's exactly the issue but we'll let them sort that out. In trying to figure this out today it is not clear to me, maybe it is to you, it is not clear to me how in this scenario where Halliburton's paying $2.00 plus for a gallon of gas and selling it for four, six, 15 cents, how it is profiting from this deal. Is that clear to you?
MCINTYRE: Well, one of the things that the auditors determined was that Halliburton had not profited any more from the deal than they would have if they had bought the gas at a lower price. They got a fixed percentage of the contract with a ceiling and they didn't profit anymore.But what happened was the U.S. taxpayers paid perhaps $61 million more than they would have because they sell the gas in Iraq at a subsidized lower price, as you've noted. So, if anybody lost money it was the U.S. taxpayers and if anybody got that $61 million it was the Kuwaiti subcontractor.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you, Jamie McIntyre tonight.With all kinds of numbers flying around about who's paying how much for a gallon of gas in Iraq here's the reality. Except for the military there's hardly a drop to be had at any price in a country that used to be swimming in it.Here's CNN's Satinder Bindra.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mohammed Odali (ph) begs for gasoline in a country that has the world's second largest oil reserves. The irony irritates Odali and as he goes from car to car his temper finally explodes."I blame Bush and the American administration" he says "because they are benefiting from the wealth of the Iraqi people."Millions of Iraqis are just as angry and gas hungry as Odali. This line for gasoline in Baghdad stretches for five kilometers, about three miles. Many motorists say it takes eight hours to fill up even if the price is still incredibly cheap by world standards about one U.S. cent a liter, slightly less than four cents a gallon.This man who gives his name as only Mohammed is so fed up he says he's quit driving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are feeling that we are humiliated in our country and humiliated in our places and humiliated in our homes.
BINDRA: With electricity in short supply, Iraq's aging oil refineries are struggling. The ongoing insurgency is another cause for concern.
DATHAT AL-KHASHAB, OIL REFINERY MANAGER: The main reason for the crude is not coming to the refineries are sabotage on pipelines and this sabotage is continuous.
BINDRA: What's also continuing to irritate Iraqis is a thriving black market. Some traders are selling stranded motorists gas at prices 15 times higher than those at the gas station. These costs are escalating tensions.Gunshots have been fired. Some gas stations are now guarded by U.S. Marines and just this week two U.S. soldiers corralling traffic near gas stations were shot dead. To cope with the shortage, Iraqi is now rationing gas.
BINDRA (on camera): Drivers can buy only 50 liters or 13 gallons of gas in one go. Iraq is also importing four million liters or approximately one million gallons of fuel from Turkey.(voice-over): Coalition forces are warning black marketers they face lengthy jail terms but Mohammed Odali is unimpressed. After hours of begging, a fellow Iraqi gives him some gas for free. Odali realizes he's been lucky. Tomorrow, he says, he'll have to be back in line again.Satinder Bindra, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: On now to the White House and the Bush administration's newest troubleshooter. He's also the oldest, James Baker is. His mission involves persuading other countries to forgive Iraqi debt and few would doubt his influence in that regard or his clout. But both may also have a lot to do with the connections he's made since leaving public life and those connections are raising a few eyebrows.We turn to CNN's Suzanne Malveaux at the White House for the latest.
MALVEAUX: Well, Aaron, it was a bit of a dust-up that began with the "New York Times" editorial that said James Baker has to sever all of his ties to the private sector, otherwise it will be a conflict of interest in his new job to try to get these countries to forgive Iraqi debt.Now, President Bush today said that he did not read this "New York Times" piece but in his words he said he didn't mean to diss the "New York Times" but he is fully standing behind his man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Jim Baker is a man of high integrity. He's a man of enormous experience and it makes sense for him to serve our country on an important mission and that mission is to encourage countries to forgive debt so the Iraqi people can more easily grow a nation that is prosperous and peaceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Baker is a partner in a Houston law firm. One of its clients is Halliburton and Baker is a senior counselor to the Carlyle Group. This is an investment group that does business around the world, including in the Middle East and with the Saudi royal family.And the White House Counsel Office however says it is satisfied that Baker has complied with the law that there is no conflict of interest. Baker is considered a special government employee, a temporary volunteer unpaid position and as such he is not required to sever all his ties to the private sector but this is what Baker has done.He has filed a financial disclosure form, agreed to forego any earnings from clients with connections to Iraqi debt and has resigned from the board of EDS, a company with government contracts.Now, Monday Baker is going to be traveling to Europe. He's going to be meeting with the leaders of France, Russia, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom. The administration believes if it's anybody who can go ahead and make a deal in forgiving Iraqi debt it is Baker -- Aaron.
BROWN: This is a fascinating moment and a fascinating negotiation. Other than the good will of the administration and perhaps what is morally right, you might argue that, what is it that Mr. Baker has to offer?
MALVEAUX: Well, Mr. Baker actually, I mean he's, as you know, a very powerful political player here. What he has to offer from the administration, of course, not only his diplomatic ties and international experience but there is a possibility that there is some wiggle room here. It is all very murky who's going to get on this list for these prime contracts and perhaps, you know, people who are already on that list. There is a possibility the administration signaling that if they forgive Iraqi debt they may be able to be eligible for some of those contracts.
BROWN: Well, we'll watch the trip next week. Thank you, Suzanne, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.On now to politics and fish, the two collided this week when a federal panel for the first time recommended that pregnant women, nursing mothers and young children should be warned to limit the amount of tuna they eat to avoid exposure to unsafe levels of mercury. OK, but given what we heard about mercury earlier this month we are a bit confused.Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (voice-over): The concerns about mercury in tuna came just a week after we learned the Bush administration is backing a controversial new plan to deal with the amount of mercury in the air.Instead of supporting mandatory cuts in emissions by power plants the EPA wants a market-based approach allowing the plants to buy and sell rights to emit mercury. Environmentalists say there is a glaring contradiction here.
DDR. LINDA GREER, NATIONAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: Well, it's incredibly hypocritical. On the one hand the government is acknowledging the problem of mercury in food and then on the other hand last week they're failing to do anything about it.WALLACE: The new EPA administrator disagrees.
MICHAEL LEAVITT, ADMINISTRATOR OF EPA: Those who would suggest that we're somehow rolling back the standard misstate the truth. This is the first time we have ever regulated mercury coming from power plants. This is the first time in the country's history that we've done it.
WALLACE: Leavitt said his plan would cut mercury emissions by 70 percent in 15 years. Environmentalists say the Bush administration is weakening Clean Air Act requirements which call for nearly wiping out mercury emissions in four years.Both sides do agree on this that there is a direct connection between the mercury that is emitted into the air by power plants and the mercury we find in tuna and other fish we eat.
DR. PHILIP LANDRIGAN, MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: That mercury is vaporized. It goes up the power plant stack. It goes into the atmosphere, travels a certain distance through the atmosphere, comes down eventually into the lakes and rivers and into the ocean, gets into the food chain in the sea and accumulates in the fish.
WALLACE: So, the debate centers on how to reduce the mercury in the air and how quickly. With environmentalists arguing the Bush White House is putting industry interests ahead of public health and the EPA saying its incentive-based plan modeled after the one used to reduce acid rain has a proven track record and will not place an additional financial burden on energy companies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: And the issue will take center stage Monday. That is when the EPA faces a court-issued deadline stemming from the Clinton years to release a public proposal to regulate mercury. It will release its market-based idea as well as a rule calling for mandatory cuts in emissions. Both of those ideas will then be open to public comment for a year so, Aaron, you can bet we'll be hearing a lot about both in the months ahead.
BROWN: We should be able -- I mean some things are opinion and we'll let those go but some things are factual and there is a factual question that seems to be in dispute. Who's right here? Are the environmentalists right when they say the previous plan would have eliminated 90 percent of mercury in the air in four years? Or, is the administration right saying that they will, in fact, do more to reduce the amount of mercury than the Clinton proposal, the Clinton era proposal?
WALLACE: Well, we haven't had regulations before so we don't really know the answer. That's part of it. So the administration would say by providing incentives to industry and preventing increased costs on utility companies you will be encouraging them to go ahead and cut their emissions of mercury but environmentalists say unless there's a mandatory regulation requiring its companies to do it you're not going to see anyone doing anything. That's what I know.BROWN: Thank you and that's all I ever ask is what you know. I don't want anything else. One more note before we go to break in this segment. Shoshanna Johnson, the Army private, who spent 22 days, I'll bet it seemed longer, as a prisoner of war in Iraq after being shot in an ambush was discharged from the Army today. Ms. Johnson was traveling in the same convoy as Jessica Lynch, later was shown in an Iraqi video being questioned by her captors. Her father accused the military of unfair treatment when his daughter was offered a smaller disability check than Ms. Lynch.Ms. Johnson, the first black female POW in American history said in a statement today she does not regret her five years in the military. She joined because she wanted to learn to be a chef.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the morning after pill, will approval to sell it over the counter create a new sexual revolution?And later, we'll visit two shops keeping the dying hobby of model railroading alive, competitors in more ways than one.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Once again a tiny pill has become ensnared in the politics of birth control and abortion. You may have heard it called the Morning After pill. Its brand name Plan B, for when Plan A, contraception, fails or fails to be used.The FDA has already approved it as safe. Doctors prescribe it. Some states even allow pharmacists to sell it without prescription. So far so good but next week the FDA will consider whether to allow Plan B to become the first emergency contraceptive sold over the counter nationwide and that, of course, has set off a whole lot of controversy.Here's CNN's Christy Feig.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FEIG (voice-over): Within 72 hours of unprotected sex a woman can take two pills 12 hours apart and she has a good chance of preventing an unwanted pregnancy. The drug is called Plan B and works by keeping a fertilized egg from implanting in the wall of the uterus. It's available now without prescription in five states and it's reviving the abortion debate.
FLORIA FELDT, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Scientifically and medically pregnancy occurs at the time of implantation.
WENDY WRIGHT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: The fact that something is getting implanted shows that there is a pregnancy that already exists.
FEIG: If the egg is already attached to the wall of the uterus, which happens from seven to nine days after the egg is fertilized, Plan B will not have any effect but opponents have more concerns. Plan B contains a high dose of the hormone found in traditional birth control pills which can cause blood clots in certain people.
WRIGHT: If this is over the counter it would be a high dose of this drug so it's likely to cause all kinds of unknown problems and women are more likely to use it repeatedly.FEIG: Those who want the pill available over the counter disagree.
FELDT: All of the evidence indicates that women use emergency contraception very responsibly and the fact that they have it, all of the studies have shown so far, that because women have access to emergency contraception does not mean that they use it regularly.FEIG: Emergency contraceptives like Plan B are already sold without prescription in about 30 countries throughout the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEIG: Now, the morning after pill has been available by prescription since 1998 and its use is increasing slightly. Last year a survey found six percent of women of childbearing years use the pill, up from two percent in 2000 -- Aaron.
BROWN: And to what degree, if any, have there been complications from its use?
FEIG: Well you haven't seen a lot of that. What you have seen studies coming in on these places, it's available in other countries, about 30 other countries use this as we mentioned and the reports that you see coming in look more at things like STDs are there an increase in STDs because that would imply that people weren't using other protection.You do see in some cases that goes up a little bit. There has not been a lot of reports that we were able to find that people were having massive problems with blood clots and the people who are in favor of this going over the counter say that's not really a problem with this pill because you're not using it long term like you do when you're using it as birth control.
BROWN: Christy, thank you. STDs for those who don't know are sexually transmitted diseases. Thank you very much.A lot of contention over this contingency plan, a lot of questions too. We turn now to Dr. Camelia Davtyan, Director of Women's Health at UCLA's comprehensive Cal Health Program, nice to have you with us.On the question of side effects, anything you want to add there? Do we know much about repeated use and whether or not that causes additional problems?
DR. CAMELIA DAVTYAN, UCLA: We don't know that much about repeated use but if you think of how many prescriptions have been written in the United States for this medication and how many people have been using this being dispensed by pharmacies here in California and other four states, without reported serious side effects, in my opinion I think it's pretty safe to be approved for availability over the counter.As far as the blood clots, which is a side effect that has been discussed a lot in the media, we have to remember that Plan B only contains the hormone progesterone and not the estrogen and such it is not prone to cause blood clots. So, that's important to keep in mind.
BROWN: There is this and there probably will always be this debate over at what point it is a pregnancy, at what point what we're really talking about is an abortion. From a medical standpoint is it a pregnancy?
DAVTYAN: From a medical standpoint pregnancy begins with implantation. That's what we teach our medical students and what we learned in medical school and Plan B would work before implantation. It is not effective after implantation. In my opinion it is a contraceptive method and not an abortive method.
BROWN: And so this is -- from a medical and a scientific point of view this is really a political debate or a moral debate I guess on how you perceive the beginning of life?
DAVTYAN: Well, if you look at which agencies are supporting the over the counter availability like the American College of Obstetricians/Gynecologists, American Academy of Family Practitioners, American Academy of Pediatrics, you kind of get the message that the major medical groups are supporting that from a medical standpoint.
BROWN: Let's set these controversies aside for a minute or two and talk about a couple of other things. One of the things and we talked about this in our morning call today, a suggestion one of our colleagues made that it would have a pretty dramatic effect on the way women behave and use contraceptives or don't use contraceptives. Do we know much about that?
DAVTYAN: I don't think there has been many studies done as far as if this would change the contraceptive behavior. I doubt that women would stop using condoms because most women use condoms to protect from sexually transmitted diseases.On the other hand, given the fact that this medication has a good safety profile I don't think it's really that important to worry about that and if you think of when the pill was first introduced in the '60s there were worries about women maybe stopping having children or fertility decreasing tremendously. That really hasn't happened.I think most women are very responsible about the way that they use contraception and there's only a minority of women who might be prone to using something without knowing what it does and what the side effects are.
BROWN: So you think this idea that women might, women who are on the pill for example might come off the pill because of whatever concerns they have about the pill and just rely on this are perhaps overblown?
DAVTYAN: I think they are perhaps overblown because in my experience even the younger women or teenagers they usually ask questions about side effects and how a medication works.
BROWN: And I suppose if you -- politically this question cuts both ways but I'm not offering it up politically. Is there -- how do we think this would affect or might affect or do we know anything about how it might affect the behavior of young men and women, teenagers for example?
DAVTYAN: I don't think we know that much scientifically but the question of teen pregnancy in this country is still a very important social problem so I think the availability of a method that would not require a visit to the physician or a prescription for a physician would definitely be a very important choice that the teenager would have in order to prevent unwanted pregnancy.
BROWN: Because kids are reluctant to -- kids are reluctant to go to doctors.
DAVTYAN: They really are. They're reluctant to go to doctors. They're reluctant to talk to their parents sometimes and we need to remember that there are three million unwanted pregnancies in this country every year.
BROWN: Dr. Davtyan good to have you with us tonight, nice job. Thank you.
DAVTYAN: Thank you very much, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.Later on the program, morning papers, a very special Friday edition of morning papers I must say.Up next we update the story of the boy who got in trouble for saying that his mom is gay, that and more.This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A quick look now at some of the other stories that made news from around the country and around the world today. It begins in Hammond, Indiana. David Maust was in court today arraigned for the murder of a teenager. He pleaded innocent though police say he confessed to strangling the boy, wrapping him in plastic and burying him in concrete beneath his house. Coincidentally, two other bodies have been discovered also wrapped in plastic and covered in concrete. And Mr. Maust already has a history. He killed a boy 22 years ago, pleaded guilty then and served 18 years in prison. Goodness. The school board in Louisiana -- Lafayette, Louisiana -- says it won't apologize for punishing a boy who told a classmate that his mother, his own mother, was gay. The boy says the school board -- was disciplined for misbehaving, not for using the G-word, this despite a report from his teacher which clearly states otherwise. A lawyer for the ACLU called the board's decision last night revisionist history. No further comment from the board. Emily Dickinson was wrong. Hope is not the thing with feathers. Canada's new prime minister is. Paul Martin assumed his post today, the ceremonies including a native purification ritual by way of an eagle feather. And even though "The New York Times" will still refer to him as Mr. Jagger, you can call to him Sir Mick. He was knighted today. His band mate, plain old Keith Richards, called it ludicrous, a paltry honor, he says. Hey, it's only rock 'n' roll. Sir Mick and his drummer, Mr. Watts, are said to be pretty savvy indeed. So this "MONEYLINE Roundup" is dedicated to them tonight. Sony and Bertelsmann have finalized an agreement to merge their music divisions. The new outfit, Sony BMG, would become the second largest record company in the world, subject to approval from regulators in both the United States and in Europe. Regulators in Canada have OKed music downloading for personal use, but not uploading. The country's copyright board also imposed a tax of up to $25 on iPods and other iPod-like devices. But experts say the board's decision doesn't go far enough toward establishing once and for all a clear set of rules about buying and selling and trading copyrighted music online. Producer prices fell in November by 0.3 percent. Wall Street expected them to rise a tad. That's another bit of economic jargon that we occasionally throw in here on the program. But jargon on not, it kept the rally going. All major indexes were up today. So were all major indices. Man, this segment. Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: phoning over the Internet. Why are so many companies rushing to do it and what does it mean to you? Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I am of the belief -- and I may be wrong here, but I am of the belief that one of the few things in life you can count on is the phone. Even in a blackout, the phone works, unless, of course, you have one of those wireless phones. And then you're out of luck. I am also of the belief that phones are more reliable than, well, let's say cable. Cable goes out sometimes. The phone works. Given these two beliefs, I'm left wondering why it is that cable companies, including our sister company, Time Warner Cable, are racing to get into the phone business or, more importantly, why I should make the switch. Here's CNN's Daniel Sieberg.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's called voice-over Internet protocol, voice-over I.P., or VoIP, for short.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, voice-over I.P. is just taking voice and putting it over your data line. Why would someone want it? Right now, the compelling reason for both consumer and business is cost. It's just, frankly,, cheaper than getting a traditional phone line.
SIEBERG: Some cable TV companies, including CNN sister company Time Warner Cable, have already announced plans for voice-over I.P. service. And AT&T already offers has VoIP for some business customers. But now, by the end of March, AT&T plans to extend that service to residential customers in the top 100 markets in the United States. And AT&T hasn't said how much it will charge, but you can already find the technology cheap, even free, over the Internet through small companies such as Skype.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are several hundreds millions of users on the broadband Internet. And I believe that, in the next few years, as the broadband penetration continues to double every 1.5 years, something like that, more and more people will be starting to use the Internet to make phone calls.
SIEBERG: Analysts say VoIP reliability is comparable to cell phone technology. You might get some dropped calls and sound may not be as good as with a land line. And if your home loses power, so does your phone. And it's not necessarily easy to install.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the most difficult things is going to be trying to figure out exactly how do you connect to it. So will the cable operator give you a box to do that? And, right now, there is additional hardware for a majority of these services. In some cases, it's software but then you have to download the software or load a disk. So, really, it's going to be a bit of an installation challenge for those that aren't very tech-savvy at the moment.
SIEBERG: But AT&T's initiative could mark the beginning of a wide-scale shift in the way we make phone calls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: AT&T saying they're going to do voice-over I.P. is a big validation of VoIP in the marketplace. Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Because, of course, some of us here at NEWSNIGHT are not too proud to admit that VoIP and broadband are not words that come up in everyday conversations very often, unless we're faking it, which is why we've asked Omar Wasow, the executive director of BlackPlanet.com, to help make sense of this. It's good to see you.
OMAR WASOW, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BLACKPLANET.COM: Good to see you.
BROWN: Why is it cheaper?WASOW: Well, there are two main reasons why it's cheaper. One is that's it's radically more efficient to use the Internet to transmit voice calls than the older technology, which is really decades old. The second reason is that there are an enormous number of taxes that exist on the traditional phone calls that are not a part of an Internet call.
BROWN: Yet.
WASOW: So you take those two together -- not yet at least, yes. So you take those two together and you can actually save a lot of money.
BROWN: That was actually my next question. Is it a lot of money or are we talking a buck or two or five a month? Because you are giving up the reliability of a conventional phone.
WASOW: Now it is not quite as reliable as a conventional phone. Over the next decade, you will see this technology become the standard and traditional phone technology will essentially fade away.
BROWN: But how do you -- you need power. The telephone, the normal, regular telephone in your house has its own power.
WASOW: And that certainly is a dramatic difference when there is a blackout or when there is some kind of crisis.
BROWN: Well, that could never happen here, a big blackout.
(LAUGHTER)
WASOW: Right. That's just a thing of the past. It's obsolete.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Can't happen.
WASOW: It certainly can happen. And, certainly, we've seen other kind of crises in New York City where having reliable phone calls matter. But it does make a difference. You asked about the pricing. You're talking about $50 to $70 for an unlimited calling package for local and long distance in, say, the United States. And you're talking online from a company like Vonage $35 for an unlimited calling. And you're going to see those prices come down even more. So we're just at the beginning of this very dramatic compression on local, long distance, international calls, in part, again, because a lot of what the additional fees are, especially for something like international calls, are taxes. And so you're just going to cut through all of that.
BROWN: A couple more 101 calls. Then I want to get beyond that. Maybe this is best asked of a psychiatrist. But do you think -- forget 20-somethings and 30-somethings. Let's talk about 50-somethings here. Are we culturally comfortable enough with technology these days? We all have computers. But are we comfortable with it that we would put our phone line through it? WASOW: Well, the Internet was once something, like was described in the package before, that took a lot of technical expertise to connect to. You really needed to know all kinds of esoteric, obscure, arcane things. And now it's one of those things where it's relatively straightforward. You can buy a computer that, out of the box, connects you to the Internet. That's what's going to happen with voice-over I.P. or this sort of Internet telephony. It's a little bit complicated now. It is going to get to the point where, you take a regular telephone, you plug it into a box and, boom, you're on. So we're in this transition area now, but it is really going to be fairly dramatic soon.
BROWN: And is that literally a regular telephone? Could I take the regular telephone that is in my house and, if I had the right boxes, and just plug it into there instead?
WASOW: Take your regular telephone and plug it in. And that's a big evolution on what it used to be, which is where you had to wear a headset and sit in front of your computer.
BROWN: And you can only talk to other people who are connected, right?
WASOW: Exactly.
BROWN: OK.Looking out there, if this is in fact the future, is it just the future for making a phone call or is this the beginning of yet another revolution that may or may not actually play out?
WASOW: There are a lot of other things besides cost and besides making a phone call that are the kind of features you can wrap around. So what we are looking at here is that, eventually, you'll see phones that have the kind of intelligence and capacity of a regular P.C. now. And when you put that intelligence in the phone, there are all sorts of new features, so that your phone can become like an ATM. You can do all sorts of things that you might have done on a computer. Plus, you can also do other kinds of things with phone call, like, I'm going to visit relatives for a week. I can have my phone, all my calls just route over to another location, because, on the Internet, that kind of fixed geographic capacity is no longer -- it's -- you're no longer constrained by being in a specific location. You can route those phone calls anywhere.
BROWN: How long before you think this is really sort of the norm?
WASOW: I think, over the next decade, you're going to see the old-line technology become -- it's so much more expensive and it's so much less efficient that it will become obsolete.
BROWN: Now, just finally, you're young. You're hip. You know all of this. Do you have this as your phone?
WASOW: I don't.
BROWN: Oh, OK.
(LAUGHTER)
WASOW: I use a conventional telephone. But give it a few years. And, I mean, the thing really to appreciate here is that, at some point, nobody will talk about voice-over I.P. It will just become the norm.
BROWN: The phone.But you have not rushed out to do this yet?
WASOW: I have not rushed out to do this yet.
BROWN: Will you call me when you do on whatever device you're calling me on?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: And then I'll wait two years and do it.
(CROSSTALK)
WASOW: It's a deal.
BROWN: Good to see you.
WASOW: Likewise.
BROWN: Thanks for coming in.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: train-spotting and the one block in Manhattan where the hobby of model railroading is being kept alive, if only barely. On CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I didn't know that prime number had been lost. In the miracle on 34th Street, it was Gimbel's and Macy's and a little girl who wouldn't believe. This Christmas, the miracle on 45th street is Ralph and Allan and little boys, young and old, who still do. Here's NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For half-a-century, for the half of American children with XY chromosomes, a Lionel train was a top Christmas wish, and more. It was a bonding experience, a rite of passage that could make a boy feel like a man and a man feel like a boy. Model trains still make lots of grown men feel like boys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm 50. Mentally, I'm still 16.
NISSEN: But it's been years since the Santa's-lap crowd had the words Lionel or HO Gauge on their Christmas lists.
RALPH ISRAEL, MANAGER, MANHATTAN TRAIN AND HOBBY: Now it's mostly an adult hobby. I would say the most typical customers is probably somebody my age who is 50-ish.
ALLAN SPITZ, OPERATOR, THE RED CABOOSE HOBBY: The joke is, you go to a convention and every year the average age is one year older.
NISSEN: Not that there's anything wrong with that, although, on West 45th Street in Manhattan, in two rival hobby shops across the street from each other, you will find two trains of thought on whether the aging of the average model train enthusiast signals the demise of the hobby. At the Red Caboose Hobby Shop, a cave-like basement store with model trains crammed floor to ceiling between narrow gauge aisles, the operator, Allan Spitz, says model railroading is losing steam. Sales of model planes are still good, he says, but sales of tank cars have tanked. Sales of flat cars are flat.
SPITZ: Unfortunately the patterns of business are declining, as times grow older and so do the people. There's no great influx of people playing with trains.
NISSEN: Although there is a constant influx of new, remarkably realistic product, from New York City's subway cars so authentic, they come with their own graffiti, to brass reproductions of Union Pacific engines in exact turn-of-the-century detail.
SPITZ: An engine like that with a
(UNINTELLIGIBLE), I would ask $1,500 for.
NISSEN: Model trains and train accessories are so expensive. Most items are now mass produced in China, which has brought the cost down. But the hobby can still be pricey.
SPITZ: We have a Conrail electric there.
NISSEN: But the hobby can still be pricey.
KENNETH HARRIS, MODEL RAILROAD HOBBYIST: I probably spend about $2,000 a year on the hobby, between magazines, locomotive and car purchases, buildings, track.
NISSEN: Harris spends much of that at Manhattan Train and Hobby, the cherry second-floor store just across the street from the Red Caboose run by Ralph Israel. Unlike Spitz, Israel believes model trains are still chugging alone. Customers may be graying, he says, but they are loyal, devoted. Many have been building layouts and collecting trains for decades.
RICHARD LAMPETER, TRAIN MODEL HOBBYIST: I've been a model railroader for over 30 years. I started when I was a teenager.
NISSEN: Richard Lampeter, now an engineer -- no, not the train kind, the blueprint kind -- still remembers his first train.
LAMPETER: And it was on a four-by-eight board. And it was a number of used locomotive and trains. And we put it together in the basement. And that's how I got kind of hooked.
NISSEN: 'Tis the season for hooking new potential enthusiasts. Many shops' sales now are to customers who want trains to run around Christmas trees.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one here is $179.
NISSEN: Enthusiasts also welcome Christmas as an excuse to give trains as presents, introduce others to their pastime.
HARRIS: You give a gift and they will get attracted. And that's what we need more of in this hobby, is to really get younger people into the hobby, because that's what will make it grow.
NISSEN: Israel thinks -- well, he hopes -- that it's just a matter of time before the GameBoy generation is engaged by the small gauge, realizes just how interactive model trains are. Many are now computer-controlled, with chips that mimic the sounds of pistons, wheels on tracks.
ISRAEL: The world is the world. The world changes. And we have to change with it. And, hopefully, there will always be people that want to do these kinds of things.
NISSEN: Hopefully, there will. Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The only thing unchanging is morning papers, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Oh, what a two and half minutes we have planned for you. We don't really plan this. Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. And this being Friday, we may throw in a surprise or two. But here's a normal start to things, "The Hartford Courant" of Hartford, Connecticut. A very good story on the front page. "Gifts, Lies Admitted, An Apology From Governor John G. Rowland," who, it turns out, had top state officials doing work on his residence and lied about it. Front page. Should be. "San Antonio Express-News." That would be San Antonio, Texas. I have some friends from Texas in tonight. "Parents Worried Sick By Flu. They're Changing Kids' Habits to Avoid Others at Favorite Playgrounds." Hmm. That's interesting. Also, they put the Halliburton story on the front page. "Bush Says Uncle Sam Will Not Be Fleeced." "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution." I find this a very interesting front-page story. And then there is a reason for it. "Trade Deficit Tops $41 Billion." That would, in my thinking, not normally make the front page of the newspaper, but look down below. "Doubt About Summit Boost. G8 Meeting" -- leaders of the G8 countries coming to Savannah -- "G8 Meeting Might or Might Not Produce a Windfall For Coastal Georgia." So they're starting to talk a bit about the economy and international trade and all of that. Give me the whale, if you will. Keiko, the whale who was "Free Willy" has died. This just came in. This will be on the front page of some papers tomorrow. And we wanted to get that in before we went.Now, how are we doing on time, David?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty-five. BROWN: Just exactly the right amount of time. This being Friday, you don't get necessarily all the great papers. And sometimes you miss a good story. So we went out and bought a couple of more. "The Weekly" -- that's "The Weekly World News." Did you know this? Had you heard this on television today? I don't know. I hadn't. "Alien Army Heads For Earth." And, actually, I can't tell you this, but it will tell you where and when they're going to land. So you might want to run out and pick that up. And this in the news-you-can-use category. If you're ever arrested, try and look better than Glen Campbell when they take the mug shot, OK? Give me one more quick shot of that. And we'll check the weather. Thank you.The weather in Chicago is somewhere, isn't it? Sure it is. It's "hearty" tomorrow in "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Indiana Suspect Says, 'I'll Be My Own Lawyer.'" That's morning papers for the day and for the week. We'll update the top story and preview Monday after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Very quickly, recap of our top story, the president saying today Halliburton should repay the government if it overcharged for gasoline delivered to Iraq. Pentagon auditors believe it did by $61 million. Coming up on the program on Monday, it isn't just our own romance with photography. We'll look at "TIME" magazine's pictures of the year. Good for us. That's Monday right here on NEWSNIGHT.Have a wonderful weekend."LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.Good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.comEnvironmentalists Accuse Administration of Hypocrisy; Should Morning- After Pill Be Available Without Prescription?>
Aired December 12, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.Life it seems is full of contradictions large and small. Take Iraq. It has the second largest pool of oil in the Middle East and you can't buy a gallon of gas in Baghdad. Actually you can but not easily as we'll show you in a few minutes.But when you can it's a steal, four cents a gallon or so. The price of gas in a place that has a sea of oil is the focus of a couple of stories tonight and is the starting point for the whip.Jamie McIntyre first away from his normal digs at the Pentagon I see, Jamie a headline from you.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Bush today tried to quiet the controversy over Halliburton saying if the company had overcharged the U.S. government the money would have to be repaid. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld called it just a disagreement not really an overpayment but the president's critics knowing a winning issue when they see one are turning up the heat -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you.Next, to the White House CNN's Suzanne Malveaux, Suzanne a headline from you tonight.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, questions about conflict of interest. First of course it was Vice President Dick Cheney and Halliburton but now as the former Secretary of State James Baker the president's special envoy, Mr. Bush today saying he is standing by his men.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.Now to questions of what's in the air and what's in your food and what is the government doing about it, CNN's Kelly Wallace with that tonight, Kelly a headline from you.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, environmentalists accuse the administration of being hypocritical, on the one hand warning about mercury levels in tuna and then on the other hand not doing enough to stop mercury from being emitted into the air. The EPA says environmentalists have their facts wrong that this White House is doing more than has been done before.
BROWN: Kelly, thank you.Finally the debate over making a contraceptive pill available over the counter, CNN's Christy Feig is working that story for us, Christy a headline.
CHRISTY FEIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, getting the morning after pill could soon be as buying aspirin and it's igniting a contentious debate. We'll tell you why, Aaron.BROWN: Christy, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.Also coming up tonight so I've just now figured out how my cell phone works and now they're talking about phones through the Internet. We'll try to explain that in terms we can all understand.Segment 7 tonight the dying hobby of model railroading or is it really dying? It depends on which hobby store owner you ask.And we'll end the week with an encore from the rooster and his papers and we hear he's got a few special ones tonight, yes he does, all that and more in the hour ahead.We begin tonight with what the Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is calling a disagreement. Others less friendly to the administration are calling it a disgrace. A cynic might say it is simply business as usual. Whatever it is the question of whether a subsidiary of Halliburton overcharged the Pentagon $61 million for fuel remains topic A tonight for many reasons.We begin with CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): President Bush tackled the Halliburton flap head-on insisting the company formerly headed by his vice president would be held to the letter of the law.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If there's an overcharge like we think there is we expect that money to be repaid.
MCINTYRE: Defense Secretary Rumsfeld downplayed the findings of his own auditors even more insisting it wasn't really an overpayment for fuel imported into Iraq just a disagreement over charges by a Kuwaiti subcontractor.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There was no overpayment to any company and, in fact, there is a fairly normal process going on where they submit bills from their subcontractors and for their own. It gets discussed and debated. We've got auditors that crawl all over these things.
MCINTYRE: Halliburton's current president vigorously defended its transactions with the U.S. government and insisted the company was being criticized for doing a high risk, low profit thankless job.A statement said: "Halliburton has repeatedly tried to transfer the fuel delivery mission to a local supplier because it is dangerous for our people. So far, no one has been able to find a replacement for Halliburton."Congressional critics, including Democrats John Dingell and Henry Waxman, argued they not Pentagon auditors were the first to blow the whistle on the high price the U.S. was paying for Kuwaiti gas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The White House insists that the Pentagon investigation will answer any questions about whether there was impropriety on the part of Halliburton and if it turns out that the Kuwaiti subcontractor did overcharge Halliburton by $61 million the Pentagon points out that during the combat phase in Iraq the Kuwaiti government provided the U.S. $300 million worth of gasoline for free -- Aaron.
BROWN: That's an interesting defense. I'm not sure it's exactly the issue but we'll let them sort that out. In trying to figure this out today it is not clear to me, maybe it is to you, it is not clear to me how in this scenario where Halliburton's paying $2.00 plus for a gallon of gas and selling it for four, six, 15 cents, how it is profiting from this deal. Is that clear to you?
MCINTYRE: Well, one of the things that the auditors determined was that Halliburton had not profited any more from the deal than they would have if they had bought the gas at a lower price. They got a fixed percentage of the contract with a ceiling and they didn't profit anymore.But what happened was the U.S. taxpayers paid perhaps $61 million more than they would have because they sell the gas in Iraq at a subsidized lower price, as you've noted. So, if anybody lost money it was the U.S. taxpayers and if anybody got that $61 million it was the Kuwaiti subcontractor.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you, Jamie McIntyre tonight.With all kinds of numbers flying around about who's paying how much for a gallon of gas in Iraq here's the reality. Except for the military there's hardly a drop to be had at any price in a country that used to be swimming in it.Here's CNN's Satinder Bindra.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mohammed Odali (ph) begs for gasoline in a country that has the world's second largest oil reserves. The irony irritates Odali and as he goes from car to car his temper finally explodes."I blame Bush and the American administration" he says "because they are benefiting from the wealth of the Iraqi people."Millions of Iraqis are just as angry and gas hungry as Odali. This line for gasoline in Baghdad stretches for five kilometers, about three miles. Many motorists say it takes eight hours to fill up even if the price is still incredibly cheap by world standards about one U.S. cent a liter, slightly less than four cents a gallon.This man who gives his name as only Mohammed is so fed up he says he's quit driving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are feeling that we are humiliated in our country and humiliated in our places and humiliated in our homes.
BINDRA: With electricity in short supply, Iraq's aging oil refineries are struggling. The ongoing insurgency is another cause for concern.
DATHAT AL-KHASHAB, OIL REFINERY MANAGER: The main reason for the crude is not coming to the refineries are sabotage on pipelines and this sabotage is continuous.
BINDRA: What's also continuing to irritate Iraqis is a thriving black market. Some traders are selling stranded motorists gas at prices 15 times higher than those at the gas station. These costs are escalating tensions.Gunshots have been fired. Some gas stations are now guarded by U.S. Marines and just this week two U.S. soldiers corralling traffic near gas stations were shot dead. To cope with the shortage, Iraqi is now rationing gas.
BINDRA (on camera): Drivers can buy only 50 liters or 13 gallons of gas in one go. Iraq is also importing four million liters or approximately one million gallons of fuel from Turkey.(voice-over): Coalition forces are warning black marketers they face lengthy jail terms but Mohammed Odali is unimpressed. After hours of begging, a fellow Iraqi gives him some gas for free. Odali realizes he's been lucky. Tomorrow, he says, he'll have to be back in line again.Satinder Bindra, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: On now to the White House and the Bush administration's newest troubleshooter. He's also the oldest, James Baker is. His mission involves persuading other countries to forgive Iraqi debt and few would doubt his influence in that regard or his clout. But both may also have a lot to do with the connections he's made since leaving public life and those connections are raising a few eyebrows.We turn to CNN's Suzanne Malveaux at the White House for the latest.
MALVEAUX: Well, Aaron, it was a bit of a dust-up that began with the "New York Times" editorial that said James Baker has to sever all of his ties to the private sector, otherwise it will be a conflict of interest in his new job to try to get these countries to forgive Iraqi debt.Now, President Bush today said that he did not read this "New York Times" piece but in his words he said he didn't mean to diss the "New York Times" but he is fully standing behind his man.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Jim Baker is a man of high integrity. He's a man of enormous experience and it makes sense for him to serve our country on an important mission and that mission is to encourage countries to forgive debt so the Iraqi people can more easily grow a nation that is prosperous and peaceful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Baker is a partner in a Houston law firm. One of its clients is Halliburton and Baker is a senior counselor to the Carlyle Group. This is an investment group that does business around the world, including in the Middle East and with the Saudi royal family.And the White House Counsel Office however says it is satisfied that Baker has complied with the law that there is no conflict of interest. Baker is considered a special government employee, a temporary volunteer unpaid position and as such he is not required to sever all his ties to the private sector but this is what Baker has done.He has filed a financial disclosure form, agreed to forego any earnings from clients with connections to Iraqi debt and has resigned from the board of EDS, a company with government contracts.Now, Monday Baker is going to be traveling to Europe. He's going to be meeting with the leaders of France, Russia, Germany, Italy and the United Kingdom. The administration believes if it's anybody who can go ahead and make a deal in forgiving Iraqi debt it is Baker -- Aaron.
BROWN: This is a fascinating moment and a fascinating negotiation. Other than the good will of the administration and perhaps what is morally right, you might argue that, what is it that Mr. Baker has to offer?
MALVEAUX: Well, Mr. Baker actually, I mean he's, as you know, a very powerful political player here. What he has to offer from the administration, of course, not only his diplomatic ties and international experience but there is a possibility that there is some wiggle room here. It is all very murky who's going to get on this list for these prime contracts and perhaps, you know, people who are already on that list. There is a possibility the administration signaling that if they forgive Iraqi debt they may be able to be eligible for some of those contracts.
BROWN: Well, we'll watch the trip next week. Thank you, Suzanne, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.On now to politics and fish, the two collided this week when a federal panel for the first time recommended that pregnant women, nursing mothers and young children should be warned to limit the amount of tuna they eat to avoid exposure to unsafe levels of mercury. OK, but given what we heard about mercury earlier this month we are a bit confused.Here's CNN's Kelly Wallace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE (voice-over): The concerns about mercury in tuna came just a week after we learned the Bush administration is backing a controversial new plan to deal with the amount of mercury in the air.Instead of supporting mandatory cuts in emissions by power plants the EPA wants a market-based approach allowing the plants to buy and sell rights to emit mercury. Environmentalists say there is a glaring contradiction here.
DDR. LINDA GREER, NATIONAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: Well, it's incredibly hypocritical. On the one hand the government is acknowledging the problem of mercury in food and then on the other hand last week they're failing to do anything about it.WALLACE: The new EPA administrator disagrees.
MICHAEL LEAVITT, ADMINISTRATOR OF EPA: Those who would suggest that we're somehow rolling back the standard misstate the truth. This is the first time we have ever regulated mercury coming from power plants. This is the first time in the country's history that we've done it.
WALLACE: Leavitt said his plan would cut mercury emissions by 70 percent in 15 years. Environmentalists say the Bush administration is weakening Clean Air Act requirements which call for nearly wiping out mercury emissions in four years.Both sides do agree on this that there is a direct connection between the mercury that is emitted into the air by power plants and the mercury we find in tuna and other fish we eat.
DR. PHILIP LANDRIGAN, MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: That mercury is vaporized. It goes up the power plant stack. It goes into the atmosphere, travels a certain distance through the atmosphere, comes down eventually into the lakes and rivers and into the ocean, gets into the food chain in the sea and accumulates in the fish.
WALLACE: So, the debate centers on how to reduce the mercury in the air and how quickly. With environmentalists arguing the Bush White House is putting industry interests ahead of public health and the EPA saying its incentive-based plan modeled after the one used to reduce acid rain has a proven track record and will not place an additional financial burden on energy companies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: And the issue will take center stage Monday. That is when the EPA faces a court-issued deadline stemming from the Clinton years to release a public proposal to regulate mercury. It will release its market-based idea as well as a rule calling for mandatory cuts in emissions. Both of those ideas will then be open to public comment for a year so, Aaron, you can bet we'll be hearing a lot about both in the months ahead.
BROWN: We should be able -- I mean some things are opinion and we'll let those go but some things are factual and there is a factual question that seems to be in dispute. Who's right here? Are the environmentalists right when they say the previous plan would have eliminated 90 percent of mercury in the air in four years? Or, is the administration right saying that they will, in fact, do more to reduce the amount of mercury than the Clinton proposal, the Clinton era proposal?
WALLACE: Well, we haven't had regulations before so we don't really know the answer. That's part of it. So the administration would say by providing incentives to industry and preventing increased costs on utility companies you will be encouraging them to go ahead and cut their emissions of mercury but environmentalists say unless there's a mandatory regulation requiring its companies to do it you're not going to see anyone doing anything. That's what I know.BROWN: Thank you and that's all I ever ask is what you know. I don't want anything else. One more note before we go to break in this segment. Shoshanna Johnson, the Army private, who spent 22 days, I'll bet it seemed longer, as a prisoner of war in Iraq after being shot in an ambush was discharged from the Army today. Ms. Johnson was traveling in the same convoy as Jessica Lynch, later was shown in an Iraqi video being questioned by her captors. Her father accused the military of unfair treatment when his daughter was offered a smaller disability check than Ms. Lynch.Ms. Johnson, the first black female POW in American history said in a statement today she does not regret her five years in the military. She joined because she wanted to learn to be a chef.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the morning after pill, will approval to sell it over the counter create a new sexual revolution?And later, we'll visit two shops keeping the dying hobby of model railroading alive, competitors in more ways than one.From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Once again a tiny pill has become ensnared in the politics of birth control and abortion. You may have heard it called the Morning After pill. Its brand name Plan B, for when Plan A, contraception, fails or fails to be used.The FDA has already approved it as safe. Doctors prescribe it. Some states even allow pharmacists to sell it without prescription. So far so good but next week the FDA will consider whether to allow Plan B to become the first emergency contraceptive sold over the counter nationwide and that, of course, has set off a whole lot of controversy.Here's CNN's Christy Feig.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FEIG (voice-over): Within 72 hours of unprotected sex a woman can take two pills 12 hours apart and she has a good chance of preventing an unwanted pregnancy. The drug is called Plan B and works by keeping a fertilized egg from implanting in the wall of the uterus. It's available now without prescription in five states and it's reviving the abortion debate.
FLORIA FELDT, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD: Scientifically and medically pregnancy occurs at the time of implantation.
WENDY WRIGHT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: The fact that something is getting implanted shows that there is a pregnancy that already exists.
FEIG: If the egg is already attached to the wall of the uterus, which happens from seven to nine days after the egg is fertilized, Plan B will not have any effect but opponents have more concerns. Plan B contains a high dose of the hormone found in traditional birth control pills which can cause blood clots in certain people.
WRIGHT: If this is over the counter it would be a high dose of this drug so it's likely to cause all kinds of unknown problems and women are more likely to use it repeatedly.FEIG: Those who want the pill available over the counter disagree.
FELDT: All of the evidence indicates that women use emergency contraception very responsibly and the fact that they have it, all of the studies have shown so far, that because women have access to emergency contraception does not mean that they use it regularly.FEIG: Emergency contraceptives like Plan B are already sold without prescription in about 30 countries throughout the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEIG: Now, the morning after pill has been available by prescription since 1998 and its use is increasing slightly. Last year a survey found six percent of women of childbearing years use the pill, up from two percent in 2000 -- Aaron.
BROWN: And to what degree, if any, have there been complications from its use?
FEIG: Well you haven't seen a lot of that. What you have seen studies coming in on these places, it's available in other countries, about 30 other countries use this as we mentioned and the reports that you see coming in look more at things like STDs are there an increase in STDs because that would imply that people weren't using other protection.You do see in some cases that goes up a little bit. There has not been a lot of reports that we were able to find that people were having massive problems with blood clots and the people who are in favor of this going over the counter say that's not really a problem with this pill because you're not using it long term like you do when you're using it as birth control.
BROWN: Christy, thank you. STDs for those who don't know are sexually transmitted diseases. Thank you very much.A lot of contention over this contingency plan, a lot of questions too. We turn now to Dr. Camelia Davtyan, Director of Women's Health at UCLA's comprehensive Cal Health Program, nice to have you with us.On the question of side effects, anything you want to add there? Do we know much about repeated use and whether or not that causes additional problems?
DR. CAMELIA DAVTYAN, UCLA: We don't know that much about repeated use but if you think of how many prescriptions have been written in the United States for this medication and how many people have been using this being dispensed by pharmacies here in California and other four states, without reported serious side effects, in my opinion I think it's pretty safe to be approved for availability over the counter.As far as the blood clots, which is a side effect that has been discussed a lot in the media, we have to remember that Plan B only contains the hormone progesterone and not the estrogen and such it is not prone to cause blood clots. So, that's important to keep in mind.
BROWN: There is this and there probably will always be this debate over at what point it is a pregnancy, at what point what we're really talking about is an abortion. From a medical standpoint is it a pregnancy?
DAVTYAN: From a medical standpoint pregnancy begins with implantation. That's what we teach our medical students and what we learned in medical school and Plan B would work before implantation. It is not effective after implantation. In my opinion it is a contraceptive method and not an abortive method.
BROWN: And so this is -- from a medical and a scientific point of view this is really a political debate or a moral debate I guess on how you perceive the beginning of life?
DAVTYAN: Well, if you look at which agencies are supporting the over the counter availability like the American College of Obstetricians/Gynecologists, American Academy of Family Practitioners, American Academy of Pediatrics, you kind of get the message that the major medical groups are supporting that from a medical standpoint.
BROWN: Let's set these controversies aside for a minute or two and talk about a couple of other things. One of the things and we talked about this in our morning call today, a suggestion one of our colleagues made that it would have a pretty dramatic effect on the way women behave and use contraceptives or don't use contraceptives. Do we know much about that?
DAVTYAN: I don't think there has been many studies done as far as if this would change the contraceptive behavior. I doubt that women would stop using condoms because most women use condoms to protect from sexually transmitted diseases.On the other hand, given the fact that this medication has a good safety profile I don't think it's really that important to worry about that and if you think of when the pill was first introduced in the '60s there were worries about women maybe stopping having children or fertility decreasing tremendously. That really hasn't happened.I think most women are very responsible about the way that they use contraception and there's only a minority of women who might be prone to using something without knowing what it does and what the side effects are.
BROWN: So you think this idea that women might, women who are on the pill for example might come off the pill because of whatever concerns they have about the pill and just rely on this are perhaps overblown?
DAVTYAN: I think they are perhaps overblown because in my experience even the younger women or teenagers they usually ask questions about side effects and how a medication works.
BROWN: And I suppose if you -- politically this question cuts both ways but I'm not offering it up politically. Is there -- how do we think this would affect or might affect or do we know anything about how it might affect the behavior of young men and women, teenagers for example?
DAVTYAN: I don't think we know that much scientifically but the question of teen pregnancy in this country is still a very important social problem so I think the availability of a method that would not require a visit to the physician or a prescription for a physician would definitely be a very important choice that the teenager would have in order to prevent unwanted pregnancy.
BROWN: Because kids are reluctant to -- kids are reluctant to go to doctors.
DAVTYAN: They really are. They're reluctant to go to doctors. They're reluctant to talk to their parents sometimes and we need to remember that there are three million unwanted pregnancies in this country every year.
BROWN: Dr. Davtyan good to have you with us tonight, nice job. Thank you.
DAVTYAN: Thank you very much, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.Later on the program, morning papers, a very special Friday edition of morning papers I must say.Up next we update the story of the boy who got in trouble for saying that his mom is gay, that and more.This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A quick look now at some of the other stories that made news from around the country and around the world today. It begins in Hammond, Indiana. David Maust was in court today arraigned for the murder of a teenager. He pleaded innocent though police say he confessed to strangling the boy, wrapping him in plastic and burying him in concrete beneath his house. Coincidentally, two other bodies have been discovered also wrapped in plastic and covered in concrete. And Mr. Maust already has a history. He killed a boy 22 years ago, pleaded guilty then and served 18 years in prison. Goodness. The school board in Louisiana -- Lafayette, Louisiana -- says it won't apologize for punishing a boy who told a classmate that his mother, his own mother, was gay. The boy says the school board -- was disciplined for misbehaving, not for using the G-word, this despite a report from his teacher which clearly states otherwise. A lawyer for the ACLU called the board's decision last night revisionist history. No further comment from the board. Emily Dickinson was wrong. Hope is not the thing with feathers. Canada's new prime minister is. Paul Martin assumed his post today, the ceremonies including a native purification ritual by way of an eagle feather. And even though "The New York Times" will still refer to him as Mr. Jagger, you can call to him Sir Mick. He was knighted today. His band mate, plain old Keith Richards, called it ludicrous, a paltry honor, he says. Hey, it's only rock 'n' roll. Sir Mick and his drummer, Mr. Watts, are said to be pretty savvy indeed. So this "MONEYLINE Roundup" is dedicated to them tonight. Sony and Bertelsmann have finalized an agreement to merge their music divisions. The new outfit, Sony BMG, would become the second largest record company in the world, subject to approval from regulators in both the United States and in Europe. Regulators in Canada have OKed music downloading for personal use, but not uploading. The country's copyright board also imposed a tax of up to $25 on iPods and other iPod-like devices. But experts say the board's decision doesn't go far enough toward establishing once and for all a clear set of rules about buying and selling and trading copyrighted music online. Producer prices fell in November by 0.3 percent. Wall Street expected them to rise a tad. That's another bit of economic jargon that we occasionally throw in here on the program. But jargon on not, it kept the rally going. All major indexes were up today. So were all major indices. Man, this segment. Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: phoning over the Internet. Why are so many companies rushing to do it and what does it mean to you? Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I am of the belief -- and I may be wrong here, but I am of the belief that one of the few things in life you can count on is the phone. Even in a blackout, the phone works, unless, of course, you have one of those wireless phones. And then you're out of luck. I am also of the belief that phones are more reliable than, well, let's say cable. Cable goes out sometimes. The phone works. Given these two beliefs, I'm left wondering why it is that cable companies, including our sister company, Time Warner Cable, are racing to get into the phone business or, more importantly, why I should make the switch. Here's CNN's Daniel Sieberg.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's called voice-over Internet protocol, voice-over I.P., or VoIP, for short.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, voice-over I.P. is just taking voice and putting it over your data line. Why would someone want it? Right now, the compelling reason for both consumer and business is cost. It's just, frankly,, cheaper than getting a traditional phone line.
SIEBERG: Some cable TV companies, including CNN sister company Time Warner Cable, have already announced plans for voice-over I.P. service. And AT&T already offers has VoIP for some business customers. But now, by the end of March, AT&T plans to extend that service to residential customers in the top 100 markets in the United States. And AT&T hasn't said how much it will charge, but you can already find the technology cheap, even free, over the Internet through small companies such as Skype.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are several hundreds millions of users on the broadband Internet. And I believe that, in the next few years, as the broadband penetration continues to double every 1.5 years, something like that, more and more people will be starting to use the Internet to make phone calls.
SIEBERG: Analysts say VoIP reliability is comparable to cell phone technology. You might get some dropped calls and sound may not be as good as with a land line. And if your home loses power, so does your phone. And it's not necessarily easy to install.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the most difficult things is going to be trying to figure out exactly how do you connect to it. So will the cable operator give you a box to do that? And, right now, there is additional hardware for a majority of these services. In some cases, it's software but then you have to download the software or load a disk. So, really, it's going to be a bit of an installation challenge for those that aren't very tech-savvy at the moment.
SIEBERG: But AT&T's initiative could mark the beginning of a wide-scale shift in the way we make phone calls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: AT&T saying they're going to do voice-over I.P. is a big validation of VoIP in the marketplace. Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Because, of course, some of us here at NEWSNIGHT are not too proud to admit that VoIP and broadband are not words that come up in everyday conversations very often, unless we're faking it, which is why we've asked Omar Wasow, the executive director of BlackPlanet.com, to help make sense of this. It's good to see you.
OMAR WASOW, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BLACKPLANET.COM: Good to see you.
BROWN: Why is it cheaper?WASOW: Well, there are two main reasons why it's cheaper. One is that's it's radically more efficient to use the Internet to transmit voice calls than the older technology, which is really decades old. The second reason is that there are an enormous number of taxes that exist on the traditional phone calls that are not a part of an Internet call.
BROWN: Yet.
WASOW: So you take those two together -- not yet at least, yes. So you take those two together and you can actually save a lot of money.
BROWN: That was actually my next question. Is it a lot of money or are we talking a buck or two or five a month? Because you are giving up the reliability of a conventional phone.
WASOW: Now it is not quite as reliable as a conventional phone. Over the next decade, you will see this technology become the standard and traditional phone technology will essentially fade away.
BROWN: But how do you -- you need power. The telephone, the normal, regular telephone in your house has its own power.
WASOW: And that certainly is a dramatic difference when there is a blackout or when there is some kind of crisis.
BROWN: Well, that could never happen here, a big blackout.
(LAUGHTER)
WASOW: Right. That's just a thing of the past. It's obsolete.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Can't happen.
WASOW: It certainly can happen. And, certainly, we've seen other kind of crises in New York City where having reliable phone calls matter. But it does make a difference. You asked about the pricing. You're talking about $50 to $70 for an unlimited calling package for local and long distance in, say, the United States. And you're talking online from a company like Vonage $35 for an unlimited calling. And you're going to see those prices come down even more. So we're just at the beginning of this very dramatic compression on local, long distance, international calls, in part, again, because a lot of what the additional fees are, especially for something like international calls, are taxes. And so you're just going to cut through all of that.
BROWN: A couple more 101 calls. Then I want to get beyond that. Maybe this is best asked of a psychiatrist. But do you think -- forget 20-somethings and 30-somethings. Let's talk about 50-somethings here. Are we culturally comfortable enough with technology these days? We all have computers. But are we comfortable with it that we would put our phone line through it? WASOW: Well, the Internet was once something, like was described in the package before, that took a lot of technical expertise to connect to. You really needed to know all kinds of esoteric, obscure, arcane things. And now it's one of those things where it's relatively straightforward. You can buy a computer that, out of the box, connects you to the Internet. That's what's going to happen with voice-over I.P. or this sort of Internet telephony. It's a little bit complicated now. It is going to get to the point where, you take a regular telephone, you plug it into a box and, boom, you're on. So we're in this transition area now, but it is really going to be fairly dramatic soon.
BROWN: And is that literally a regular telephone? Could I take the regular telephone that is in my house and, if I had the right boxes, and just plug it into there instead?
WASOW: Take your regular telephone and plug it in. And that's a big evolution on what it used to be, which is where you had to wear a headset and sit in front of your computer.
BROWN: And you can only talk to other people who are connected, right?
WASOW: Exactly.
BROWN: OK.Looking out there, if this is in fact the future, is it just the future for making a phone call or is this the beginning of yet another revolution that may or may not actually play out?
WASOW: There are a lot of other things besides cost and besides making a phone call that are the kind of features you can wrap around. So what we are looking at here is that, eventually, you'll see phones that have the kind of intelligence and capacity of a regular P.C. now. And when you put that intelligence in the phone, there are all sorts of new features, so that your phone can become like an ATM. You can do all sorts of things that you might have done on a computer. Plus, you can also do other kinds of things with phone call, like, I'm going to visit relatives for a week. I can have my phone, all my calls just route over to another location, because, on the Internet, that kind of fixed geographic capacity is no longer -- it's -- you're no longer constrained by being in a specific location. You can route those phone calls anywhere.
BROWN: How long before you think this is really sort of the norm?
WASOW: I think, over the next decade, you're going to see the old-line technology become -- it's so much more expensive and it's so much less efficient that it will become obsolete.
BROWN: Now, just finally, you're young. You're hip. You know all of this. Do you have this as your phone?
WASOW: I don't.
BROWN: Oh, OK.
(LAUGHTER)
WASOW: I use a conventional telephone. But give it a few years. And, I mean, the thing really to appreciate here is that, at some point, nobody will talk about voice-over I.P. It will just become the norm.
BROWN: The phone.But you have not rushed out to do this yet?
WASOW: I have not rushed out to do this yet.
BROWN: Will you call me when you do on whatever device you're calling me on?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: And then I'll wait two years and do it.
(CROSSTALK)
WASOW: It's a deal.
BROWN: Good to see you.
WASOW: Likewise.
BROWN: Thanks for coming in.Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: train-spotting and the one block in Manhattan where the hobby of model railroading is being kept alive, if only barely. On CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I didn't know that prime number had been lost. In the miracle on 34th Street, it was Gimbel's and Macy's and a little girl who wouldn't believe. This Christmas, the miracle on 45th street is Ralph and Allan and little boys, young and old, who still do. Here's NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For half-a-century, for the half of American children with XY chromosomes, a Lionel train was a top Christmas wish, and more. It was a bonding experience, a rite of passage that could make a boy feel like a man and a man feel like a boy. Model trains still make lots of grown men feel like boys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm 50. Mentally, I'm still 16.
NISSEN: But it's been years since the Santa's-lap crowd had the words Lionel or HO Gauge on their Christmas lists.
RALPH ISRAEL, MANAGER, MANHATTAN TRAIN AND HOBBY: Now it's mostly an adult hobby. I would say the most typical customers is probably somebody my age who is 50-ish.
ALLAN SPITZ, OPERATOR, THE RED CABOOSE HOBBY: The joke is, you go to a convention and every year the average age is one year older.
NISSEN: Not that there's anything wrong with that, although, on West 45th Street in Manhattan, in two rival hobby shops across the street from each other, you will find two trains of thought on whether the aging of the average model train enthusiast signals the demise of the hobby. At the Red Caboose Hobby Shop, a cave-like basement store with model trains crammed floor to ceiling between narrow gauge aisles, the operator, Allan Spitz, says model railroading is losing steam. Sales of model planes are still good, he says, but sales of tank cars have tanked. Sales of flat cars are flat.
SPITZ: Unfortunately the patterns of business are declining, as times grow older and so do the people. There's no great influx of people playing with trains.
NISSEN: Although there is a constant influx of new, remarkably realistic product, from New York City's subway cars so authentic, they come with their own graffiti, to brass reproductions of Union Pacific engines in exact turn-of-the-century detail.
SPITZ: An engine like that with a
(UNINTELLIGIBLE), I would ask $1,500 for.
NISSEN: Model trains and train accessories are so expensive. Most items are now mass produced in China, which has brought the cost down. But the hobby can still be pricey.
SPITZ: We have a Conrail electric there.
NISSEN: But the hobby can still be pricey.
KENNETH HARRIS, MODEL RAILROAD HOBBYIST: I probably spend about $2,000 a year on the hobby, between magazines, locomotive and car purchases, buildings, track.
NISSEN: Harris spends much of that at Manhattan Train and Hobby, the cherry second-floor store just across the street from the Red Caboose run by Ralph Israel. Unlike Spitz, Israel believes model trains are still chugging alone. Customers may be graying, he says, but they are loyal, devoted. Many have been building layouts and collecting trains for decades.
RICHARD LAMPETER, TRAIN MODEL HOBBYIST: I've been a model railroader for over 30 years. I started when I was a teenager.
NISSEN: Richard Lampeter, now an engineer -- no, not the train kind, the blueprint kind -- still remembers his first train.
LAMPETER: And it was on a four-by-eight board. And it was a number of used locomotive and trains. And we put it together in the basement. And that's how I got kind of hooked.
NISSEN: 'Tis the season for hooking new potential enthusiasts. Many shops' sales now are to customers who want trains to run around Christmas trees.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one here is $179.
NISSEN: Enthusiasts also welcome Christmas as an excuse to give trains as presents, introduce others to their pastime.
HARRIS: You give a gift and they will get attracted. And that's what we need more of in this hobby, is to really get younger people into the hobby, because that's what will make it grow.
NISSEN: Israel thinks -- well, he hopes -- that it's just a matter of time before the GameBoy generation is engaged by the small gauge, realizes just how interactive model trains are. Many are now computer-controlled, with chips that mimic the sounds of pistons, wheels on tracks.
ISRAEL: The world is the world. The world changes. And we have to change with it. And, hopefully, there will always be people that want to do these kinds of things.
NISSEN: Hopefully, there will. Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The only thing unchanging is morning papers, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Oh, what a two and half minutes we have planned for you. We don't really plan this. Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. And this being Friday, we may throw in a surprise or two. But here's a normal start to things, "The Hartford Courant" of Hartford, Connecticut. A very good story on the front page. "Gifts, Lies Admitted, An Apology From Governor John G. Rowland," who, it turns out, had top state officials doing work on his residence and lied about it. Front page. Should be. "San Antonio Express-News." That would be San Antonio, Texas. I have some friends from Texas in tonight. "Parents Worried Sick By Flu. They're Changing Kids' Habits to Avoid Others at Favorite Playgrounds." Hmm. That's interesting. Also, they put the Halliburton story on the front page. "Bush Says Uncle Sam Will Not Be Fleeced." "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution." I find this a very interesting front-page story. And then there is a reason for it. "Trade Deficit Tops $41 Billion." That would, in my thinking, not normally make the front page of the newspaper, but look down below. "Doubt About Summit Boost. G8 Meeting" -- leaders of the G8 countries coming to Savannah -- "G8 Meeting Might or Might Not Produce a Windfall For Coastal Georgia." So they're starting to talk a bit about the economy and international trade and all of that. Give me the whale, if you will. Keiko, the whale who was "Free Willy" has died. This just came in. This will be on the front page of some papers tomorrow. And we wanted to get that in before we went.Now, how are we doing on time, David?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty-five. BROWN: Just exactly the right amount of time. This being Friday, you don't get necessarily all the great papers. And sometimes you miss a good story. So we went out and bought a couple of more. "The Weekly" -- that's "The Weekly World News." Did you know this? Had you heard this on television today? I don't know. I hadn't. "Alien Army Heads For Earth." And, actually, I can't tell you this, but it will tell you where and when they're going to land. So you might want to run out and pick that up. And this in the news-you-can-use category. If you're ever arrested, try and look better than Glen Campbell when they take the mug shot, OK? Give me one more quick shot of that. And we'll check the weather. Thank you.The weather in Chicago is somewhere, isn't it? Sure it is. It's "hearty" tomorrow in "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Indiana Suspect Says, 'I'll Be My Own Lawyer.'" That's morning papers for the day and for the week. We'll update the top story and preview Monday after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Very quickly, recap of our top story, the president saying today Halliburton should repay the government if it overcharged for gasoline delivered to Iraq. Pentagon auditors believe it did by $61 million. Coming up on the program on Monday, it isn't just our own romance with photography. We'll look at "TIME" magazine's pictures of the year. Good for us. That's Monday right here on NEWSNIGHT.Have a wonderful weekend."LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.Good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.comEnvironmentalists Accuse Administration of Hypocrisy; Should Morning- After Pill Be Available Without Prescription?>
